Catch 22 [ Archive] - GasSavers.org - Helping You Save at the Pump

I have two choices either repair a inner tie rod boot or keep adding power steering fluid.

The part itself costs $12 but the problem is it's very hard to get to it and labor would be alone $200-275.

I don't have those kinds of tools and have no experience repairing power steering racks.

Power steering fluid costs $2.74 tax included for 12 oz. I would have to waste a bottle every 4-6 weeks in order to keep my fluid in the right zone. If I don't add any fluid the whole system will take a crap.

My vote is to loop the system and eliminate PS altogether.

yeah but I'd like to have power steering. I park outside in a parking lot that requires a lot of manuvering.

Power steering fluid costs $2.74 tax included for 12 oz. I would have to waste a bottle every 4-6 weeks in order to keep my fluid in the right zone. If I don't add any fluid the whole system will take a crap.

By my math, the payback period for fixing the leak would be 8 to 12 years. Unless you are gonna keep it that long I would see If I could get a deal on a case of fluid.

yeah but I'd like to have power steering. I park outside in a parking lot that requires a lot of manuvering.

When I had a car with no PS, it was so easy to turn the wheel when the car was moving -- of course, at a slower pace it's much more difficult.

This is what I recommend. Go to an empty parking lot, get up to a decent speed, put the car in N, and shut 'er down. Then practice maneuvering the vehicle with the engine off until it coasts to a stop. This way, you'll get a feel for the effort. It's not easy, but it could be manageable, and it's a good workout :-)

And besides, taking the PS out of the equation will yield you better quarter-mile times ;-)

RH77

I wonder how toxic PS fluid is...

Guys where did you get the idea if I remove my pump this will solve the problem???

The problem will still be the same with no power steering. It will still leak. You need lubrication, otherwise parts break. Then I'll have no steering at all. If the pump was broken I would of just taken it out and be done with it.

Dan what if the boot gets worse and I have to waste a bottle a week, that could get very costly...

I wonder how toxic PS fluid is...

Well, I know it'll eat the paint off of a car if you spill it on the finish, so probably pretty toxic stuff.

RH77

Guys where did you get the idea if I remove my pump this will solve the problem???

The problem will still be the same with no power steering. It will still leak. You need lubrication, otherwise parts break. Then I'll have no steering at all. If the pump was broken I would of just taken it out and be done with it.

Dan what if the boot gets worse and I have to waste a bottle a week, that could get very costly...

I don't believe it's really an issue of lubrication. I think the PS pump is simply a hydraulic assist device that receives input from the steering wheel and helps it along through a high-pressure line to the steering rack. All of the other components are sealed and have lubrication of their own. I'm not sure which boot is leaking exactly...I'm thinking it's where the pump line meets the rack, right?

RH77

Is it a leak from a split seal or a leaking seal - maybe some PS fluid leak stop will help - something with seal swell in it that will soften the rubber seal material and seal it up better. Often on my front fork seals of my bike all I have to do is change the oil and clean the grit out of the seals and I am good for another year.

this is my steering rack and the line is pointing to the ripped boot.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/Compaq888/bootleaking.jpg

I'm not a mechanic by any means, but it looks like right above the boot is the place where your steering column meets up with the rack and diverts pressure onto the piston to move it back and forth. The tubes you see running to the shaft are the pressure lines that "help" the rack to move more easily.

Actually, if you have a leak from your boot, there may be a bigger problem here. The boot is merely a protector for a stronger seal. It sounds like inside the boot, the seal is failing. Some PS "Stop-Leak" might do the trick (available at any auto parts shop).

Lastly, it looks like the only premature wear would occur within the piston (minimal) and at the column/rack gear possibly more significant. It looks as if the PS fluid may actually lubricate this gearset (my mistake earlier). The trick is, if you can seal-off the system with some fluid still in it, then it will continue to lubricate the whole works, but if it leaks out, then that's nil.

Bascially, picture the inside of a liftgate strut or the storm-door closing mechanism -- similar concept of hydraulic/pneumatic piston function.

RH77

I don't believe it's really an issue of lubrication. I think the PS pump is simply a hydraulic assist device that receives input from the steering wheel and helps it along through a high-pressure line to the steering rack. All of the other components are sealed and have lubrication of their own. I'm not sure which boot is leaking exactly...I'm thinking it's where the pump line meets the rack, right?

RH77


I'm unsure if Nissans are like Hondas or not, but I know with a Honda the PS fluid actually lubricates the steering rack. If you want to remove PS you have to either swap racks or get a kit that maintains a small amount of fluid to lubricate the column.

I don't believe it's really an issue of lubrication. I think the PS pump is simply a hydraulic assist device that receives input from the steering wheel and helps it along through a high-pressure line to the steering rack. All of the other components are sealed and have lubrication of their own. I'm not sure which boot is leaking exactly...I'm thinking it's where the pump line meets the rack, right?

RH77


I'm unsure if Nissans are like Hondas or not, but I know with a Honda the PS fluid actually lubricates the steering rack. If you want to remove PS you have to either swap racks or get a kit that maintains a small amount of fluid to lubricate the column.

After I saw the schematic that was posted, I started to realize that it's probably integral in lubrication. I know it would ruin the rack for the life of the car, but what would happen if you put heavy gear grease in there and disconnected the PS, and seal up the rack? I'm just trying to picture the Honda manual steering system -- basically the column hooked to a gearbox that translates the motion (and I assume in the box is filled with heavy grease).

RH77

Hopefully it's just the boot, because the dealer was very hesitant to fix my current system. If they open it up and find out something else is broken it would be better just to replace the entire rack.

The boot doesn't even look ripped it's leaking where the ring sits on top of the boot to hold it down to the rack.

The boot doesn't even look ripped it's leaking where the ring sits on top of the boot to hold it down to the rack.

Not sure, but that doesn't sound good. Honestly, try the "Stop-Leak" stuff. I fixed a radiator leak with a similar product and an old Oldsmobile transmission.

RH77

what is the brand of it???

And if it doesn't stop the leak, what's next?

Bascially you know that wall of all kinds of automotive fluids at the parts store -- in there somewhere is called "Power Steering Stop Leak". Different companies make it, so there will be some choices. I think any brand will do. If that doesn't work, we'll escalate to "Plan-B" as necessary.

RH77

rh77 has a great point - the boot only protects the exposed shaft of the rack that travels through the seal so that the seal does not get damaged. If the seal is leaking then there probably is damage to the shaft (nick or scratch) and or the bushings holding the shaft centered in the seals. You already have a bigger problem and I don't think you are going to get away cheep at the dealers. Next test is to see if turning the wheels under heavy loads makes it leak more.

I won't know if the seal is leaking unless I put a new boot on and it leaks again.

Get a clamp for the rack end and remove the old boot without wrecking it - check the seal and clean out the oil and put it back on - if it drips more then the seal is bad . . . also check for slop in the arm when it is abobut half way out and all the way out - that will tell you if the bushings are worn - if the bushing are worn then the seal will leak and replacing the seal will not help. Don't thik of it as a complicated thing - it is just a shaft sticking through a seal that keeps your car from flying off a cliff.

Well it was the seal and it blew hard. I would leave a lot of oil everywhere I drove.

Me and my gramps went to a junkyard this morning and got a complete rack&pinion from another 99' altima for $100.

I'm have it installed right now for $250 including a power steering flush.

I'm using the shop's computer.

car in the shop again. They are finishing the pinion and rack install, alignment and full brake job.

typing from shop computer.

car in the shop again. They are finishing the pinion and rack install, alignment and full brake job.

typing from shop computer.

Awesome... it will be nice when you're done... I bet the difference will be night and day.

BTW, your signature is cracking me up. NOS

car in the shop again. They are finishing the pinion and rack install, alignment and full brake job.

typing from shop computer.

Awesome... it will be nice when you're done... I bet the difference will be night and day.

BTW, your signature is cracking me up. NOS


The car actually drives good, except the fact it tries to go sideways. The alignment should get my numbers back up. At first my steering is stiff but it's now almost broken in. After they finish it should be all good.

i got a question...
if p/s fluid lubricates the rack
wtf do all the manual racks do for lubrication

here's a quality thread for removing p/s components to turn any power rack into a manual rack...
truth be known...all you really have to do is take the lines off the pump...done & done...
you dont even need to reseal the system or remove all the pins/springs
and even if you want to remove these parts...it can be done with THE RACK STILL ON THE CAR...
http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88673&highlight=power+steering+removal

Just keep adding fluid. It's what I'm doing with my 90 Civic except with engine oil. One day I'll get in there and put new rings in, but for now, 1 qt. per fillup isn't exactly breaking the bank.

Just keep adding fluid. It's what I'm doing with my 90 Civic except with engine oil. One day I'll get in there and put new rings in, but for now, 1 qt. per fillup isn't exactly breaking the bank.

The pinion&rack has been fixed. The seal blew bad and I was leaking severly. I had to get another used R&P from a junkyard off the same exact car. I got it installed at a shop and so far the only difference is it's a little stiffer at freeway speeds than the original one.

Excellent then. I probably won't get to my fluid consumption problem until after the 5-speed and OBD-1/MPFI conversion, which probably means at least a year.

Compaq888 just a thought on the low mpg - you have an automatic but you should have some 85-90 weight gear oil in the differential - maybe you should check that and see what shape it is in.

The Rack should loosen up as you drive it a while - took a long trip in my Geo for the stiction to go away - the xB is starting to get better now also. Maybe changing the PS oil is going to help me more also.

Compaq888 just a thought on the low mpg - you have an automatic but you should have some 85-90 weight gear oil in the differential - maybe you should check that and see what shape it is in.

The Rack should loosen up as you drive it a while - took a long trip in my Geo for the stiction to go away - the xB is starting to get better now also. Maybe changing the PS oil is going to help me more also.

The tranny fluid was changed 10k ago. Plus I have a tranny cooler so I shouldn't worry about tranny stuff. I don't want to touch the car anymore. It's not very reliable, screwing with anything will just make it worse. I already spent $1000+ on repairs in 1.5 years that I owned it.

The lower mpg is due to stuff breaking and me driving more agressivly. I can make a 29mpg tank If I wanted.