Low Rolling Resistance Tires

[SVOboy]

They are something lovely for our cars besides the standby of just overfilling our tires. Right now mine are 3 psi over, I'll be going up to 6 psi over to test and see if I lose anything cornering though (I took a hard corner with my friend and freaked some old lady in her minivan out, ^_^). But LRRs are a better way of getting the same benefits of overinflation.

Check out this (puke) PDF for some pretty fly information on the stuff and what kinda tires to look for, and which not to look for:

http://www.greenseal.org/recommendations/CGR_tire_rollingresistance.pdf

[bagpipe goatee]

yeah, the tires are a big deal. i have ziex 510's in the front of my civic (terrible tires, don't buy them) and their sidewalls are so flimsy that i pump them up to like 45 psi or sometimes higher and they actually are still soft (it says max inflation pressure of 50 if i remember right). my rear tires i'll bump up to 40. i notice a big difference in gas milege, i figured it out one time, but i don't have the numbers right in front of me. good article.

[SVOboy]

A 10 percent reduction in rolling resistance would yield gas savings of 1 to 2 percent on average, according to Green Seal, a Washington-based nonprofit environmental advocacy organization. Car manufacturers have achieved at least 50 percent reduction in rolling resistance to meet federal fuel economy standards.

Found this online, pretty interesting. LRRs have a big impact, according to this, as big an impact as losing 100 pounds out of your car. And hell, LRRs are cheaper than carbon fiber hoods and sunroof plugs. This is a great way to get up there easily in the mpg game.

[Matt Timion]

Found this online, pretty interesting. LRRs have a big impact, according to this, as big an impact as losing 100 pounds out of your car. And hell, LRRs are cheaper than carbon fiber hoods and sunroof plugs. This is a great way to get up there easily in the mpg game.

I'm planning on putting LRRs on my HX rims once I get the money saved up. The weight reduction of the HX rims and the Low Rolling Resistance of the tires should give me a few mpg extra.

[rh77]

I'm putting together a list of LRRs. Kudos to SVOboy for the PDF on LRRs, but the list is from early '03 and many tire models are no longer available. I've worked with the TireRack in the past and they are friendly to web-boards and folks with individual needs, so I've summoned their assistance in my research. Hopefully they'll have a list of what they sell soon. By all means, purchase where available and cost effective if they don't deliver as expected. I've searched the web with little success for today's LRRs, so off we go...

RH77

[SVOboy]

Sounds exciting, keep us posted.

[Matt Timion]

I'm putting together a list of LRRs. Kudos to SVOboy for the PDF on LRRs, but the list is from early '03 and many tire models are no longer available. I've worked with the TireRack in the past and they are friendly to web-boards and folks with individual needs, so I've summoned their assistance in my research. Hopefully they'll have a list of what they sell soon. By all means, purchase where available and cost effective if they don't deliver as expected. I've searched the web with little success for today's LRRs, so off we go...

RH77

please find available sizes as well. I need to find 185R14-60 LRR tires and am having a very difficult time.

[rh77]

The TireRack rep. said that their testing facility doesn't perform RRC, or Rolling Resistance Coefficient testing. They do sell OEM tires for current model hybrids (which, by default, have LRRs). I'm currently contacting Green Seal for more info. The test was the result of a bill passed in California, to study tires' effects on the evironment. The full report can be found here for super-specific info:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/reports/2003-01-31_600-03-001CRVOL2.PDF

Hopefully there's another test out there that's not as old.

-RH77

[rh77]

Just an update on the low-rolling resistance tires -- Green Seal doesn't have any other new testing in the works. I've written the tire companies individually with no success. Anyone out there with connections to the tire industry? There's an independent testing firm in Akron, Ohio that does this testing (at a cost). Is there anyone out there that would perhaps sponsor new testing -- like a University or State agency? (I know I'm reaching here, but where the rubber meets the road could yield better economy, and new testing is due).

RH77

[Matt Timion]

Just an update on the low-rolling resistance tires -- Green Seal doesn't have any other new testing in the works. I've written the tire companies individually with no success. Anyone out there with connections to the tire industry? There's an independent testing firm in Akron, Ohio that does this testing (at a cost). Is there anyone out there that would perhaps sponsor new testing -- like a University or State agency? (I know I'm reaching here, but where the rubber meets the road could yield better economy, and new testing is due).

RH77

I hate to say this, but when gas prices dropping again (I saw $2.04 locally tonight) this whole fuel economy thing isn't very attractive to most people. Even though the car companies are now just displaying gas mileage as a way to advertise their cars, I doubt that anyone else is going to catch on.

Perhaps the best bet is to find out what tires hybrids use (like the Bridgestone RE92) and just get those tires. Most hybrids use LRR tires.

I'm planning on getting whatever the Civic Hybrid uses and throwing them on my lightweight rims that are sitting in the garage.

If there is a univeristy that is willing to test the rolling resistance of certain tires, however, that would be wonderful.

[Compaq888]

I don't know about you but I pumped up my tires a little more and it gives me 3mpg more. I don't know if mine are low resistence tires but they are Kumho all season 716's

[SVOboy]

Yours won't be LRRs, compaq, but 3 mpg, that's a damn good deal. I would go with whatev the insights use, because people pump those up to 55 psi and get good results out of them.

[rh77]

I've always run 45 PSI and haven't had any unusual wear in the middle and can still take the exit ramps at 60. I'm thinking of getting either the Insight or Civic Hybrid tires when the current ones wear out (which is soon, and snow is on its way) - but I'm sure handling will suffer :-(

[Compaq888]

Does the new 2006 civic hybrid have low resistent tires?

[SVOboy]

They ought to, I'm not entirely sure though.

[Compaq888]

ok, I just want to know for sure because I got mine for $279 installed and balanced and they handle way better then my previous tires.

I just don't see the point in buying special tires for a lot more and getting only 1-2mpg.

[SVOboy]

The 2006 civic hybrid uses kumhos?

[Compaq888]

no, lol. I do.

I do know they are the same size as my car. 195/65/15

I stopped using that size. I now use 205/60/15

[SVOboy]

Ah, gotcha. Bigger tires will also cut down on your mpg by the way, especially if you get 21 chrome spinners. --_^

[rh77]

Reducing the diameter but also, based on racing principles, the lighter the weight of the rim has a huge impact on not only the handling, but in fuel economy (The "Unsprung Weight" Principle). It takes less energy to get them going and less to stop (like a flywheel). Unfortunately, lightweight rims tend to come in larger sizes (unless you source them from a hybrid).

-RH77

[SVOboy]

Honda Civic HX, 1996- has these extremely lightweight wheels that're only 14 inches, and alloys. In demand of course, but you can get a good set for like 250 shipped, I think that's around what Matt paid. You can also get Honda Civic VX, 1992-1995 13 inchers that are even lighter. Both of these sets use the 4x100mm bolt pattern, which is common across many makes and models, so not just a Honda thing, -_^

[Matt Timion]

Honda Civic HX, 1996- has these extremely lightweight wheels that're only 14 inches, and alloys. In demand of course, but you can get a good set for like 250 shipped, I think that's around what Matt paid. You can also get Honda Civic VX, 1992-1995 13 inchers that are even lighter. Both of these sets use the 4x100mm bolt pattern, which is common across many makes and models, so not just a Honda thing, -_^

I paid about $250 for my HX rims. They are still sitting in my garage. In all truth I'd probably rather have VX rims as they are 2 pounds lighter each. The VX rims weigh 9.75 pounds each, and the HX rims weigh 11.75 pounds each.

I'm hoping that my eventual upgrade to the HX rims yields about 2 mpg improvement.

[SVOboy]

I figure hx rims are prolly better for most not honda people, as brake fitment could become an issue on larger cars.

[Compaq888]

dang those are some lighweight wheels. Mine oem wheels weigh 20.6 lbs with hubcaps. Tires off of course.

[SVOboy]

I'm sure you could get some aftermarket 10 pounders pretty cheap, just gotta look for em. What's your bolt pattern?

[Compaq888]

114.3X4

[kickflipjr]

KONIG HELIUM wheels are really nice they are only 10.6 pounds each. They cost around $400 on ebay

http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/88/9a/ca_2.JPG

[kickflipjr]

this style miata wheel is light too. around 12 pounds (i'm not 100% shure).

http://i16.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/74/88/57_1.JPG

[davens]

^ Good info on the Miata wheels. I'm running the 94-97 "Semi-hollow spokes"(~11 lbs.) on my CRX and the 90-93 "Panasport Wannabes" (~12 lbs.)on my Civic Wagon. They are cheap and easy to find.
Theres even a 92-93 BBS made wheel that is also a 14" but they only weigh 9 lbs! These are not cheap and easy to find.
They are the correct bolt pattern and offset for Hondas, but they require the center hub to be bored out a couple mm.

Someone metioned Bridgestone RE-92 earlier. DON'T DO IT!
I bought a set when I needed new tires on my previous '98 Protege. Due to the hookup I was getting, I was limited to Bridgestone and then only what sizes they had in stock...the decision was pretty much made for me. I was running a set of discontinued RE-71 on the CRX that I loved, and the RE-92 had gotten okay reviews, so I figured how bad could it be?
My first impression was, "Eh...they're alright. Especially for the price."
Then it rained.
Holy crap, they scared the bejeezus out of me. I've run on race tires in the rain with more confidence. This is an all season tire?
I got rid of them as soon as I could afford new tires. Good thing it doesn't rain in Texas very often.

Speaking of tire alternatives have you seen:
1. polyurethane tires. Outlasts, outperforms and outprices regular tires. http://www.amerityre.com/
From what I've read, they're currently doing tests to meet gov't compliance to sell road legal tires...but since they're not regular air tires, some of test criteria can not be measured and this caused hold ups. I guess you can't test how a blow out is going to affect it.
2. Tweels. Rubber spokes, little or no air, depending on how development goes. http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000790025885/

[DaX]

Those tweels are trippy - I read a good article on them about a year ago.

[MetroMPG]

Fuel-efficiency ratings for tires urged
Consumers need advice to decide on effect on economy, study says

"Washington — The U.S. government should collect information on how tires affect fuel efficiency in cars and light trucks to help consumers seek out the most efficient brands, a study says.

The Transportation Research Board called on Congress on Tuesday to authorize the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to collect tire-efficiency data for the public."

more here:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060404.wtires0404/BNStory/International/home

or google it if the link dies

[rh77]

Fuel-efficiency ratings for tires urged
Consumers need advice to decide on effect on economy, study says

Exactly! When I researched this a few months ago, the info was very minimal. Finally some pressure to get this done. Good find...

RH77

[Matt Timion]

Fuel-efficiency ratings for tires urged
Consumers need advice to decide on effect on economy, study says

Exactly! When I researched this a few months ago, the info was very minimal. Finally some pressure to get this done. Good find...

RH77

On yahoo news I read a quote of some guy behind the decision to push this forward. It was something like...

After thousands of calls from Rick from GasSavers.org, we decided it might be worth it just to make him quit calling.

I know, i'm not funny :P

[rh77]

On yahoo news I read a quote of some guy behind the decision to push this forward. It was something like...

After thousands of calls from Rick from GasSavers.org, we decided it might be worth it just to make him quit calling.

I know, i'm not funny :P

ROFLOL! Man you should give up this whole Admin thing and take your act on the road. OK, I guess that was funny.

But seriously, back then I wrote most of the tire companies without a single reply (even the TireRack said they couldn't help because they have no equipment to test this variable). The only luck was some marketing page about the Michelin LRR philosophy. Then later, Consumer Reports. And now, finally RESULTS!

RH77 or "Rick" to most folks

Oh, and by the way -- with the money I'm saving on fewer long distance calls, I can buy a ScanGuage and a new set of tires!