Best way to do a lowering experiment?

[MetroMPG]

Can anyone think of a way to do an A-B (at minimum) lowering experiment on my car, where the runs could be immediately before/after?

I tried doing this...

http://metrompg.com/offsite/lowering-cord.jpg

...by jacking up one corner of the car until the opposite suspension was as compressed as possible, then wrapping cord around the spring (I managed to tie together 4 coils).

When the jack was removed, the cord held the spring about 1 inch lower than stock. It actually held for a week or so, then broke rebounding on some bump.

Is there any other easy & inexpensive way to go about this?

I also tried using muffler-style clamps on the spring itself, but they wouldn't stay in one spot (jangled over bumps)

[SVOboy]

I can't think of a way to do it really without some sort of adjustable coilover sleeve.

You could just get really good at swapping springs though.

[MetroMPG]

I know you're against it, but I'll probably just cut the stock spring if I do this. It's the Metro way. :D

BUT - the whole point is I'm don't want to do it without testing it first. Have cake, eat cake, etc.

[Matt Timion]

Big *** zip ties.

[kickflipjr]

I have head of people using giant zip ties.

[MetroMPG]

Awesome! Zip ties on the list :D!

MacGyver is alive and well.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

This stuff is strong. (http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/380571/2/istockphoto_380571_cowboy_with_lasso.jpg) Although I'm not sure I would try to secure a spring with anything because if the material snaps and hits someone, that's an headache like none other. Maybe get a set of cut springs and become really adept at swapping them?

[MetroMPG]

I'd have to be pretty darned adept: it's got to be like a 5 minute job, or else the car cools, ambient continues to change, wind changes, etc. and it runs the risk of skewing the after-test.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

What about grabbing four of these (http://www.autozone.com/in_our_stores/loan_a_tool/steering_suspension/spring_compressor.htm) and making sure you don't go over any bumps during your run? It'd be a large inital cash outlay, but you'll get all your money back, and I'd wager that if they can safetly compress a spring enough to take it apart, they'll safely compress it to a lesser degree where the car can be driven on a smooth road.

Edit- DIY coilovers? (http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=7678)

[JanGeo]

You compress the spring too much and it can fall out of the retainers if the shock fully extends. You may be able to have the springs heat treated compressed and hardened again pretty cheep - my brother had some custom made quite a while ago.

[MetroMPG]

You compress the spring too much and it can fall out of the retainers if the shock fully extends.

The guys who've cut springs on teamswift all claim no topping out when removing one coil (which works out to about an inch and a bit drop).

But thanks for the advice. Everyone - good ideas. I'm leaning towards the big *** zip ties, no surprise :D

[ZugyNA]

You can use these:

http://www.nonags.org/members/nijqk/saddletypeboosters.jpg

...but you can only drop it by the space between one coil and the next....and they can be a bear to install...but they are removable.

[Silveredwings]

coat hangers? (tried-n-true) :P

[SVOboy]

I like the idea using the ratcheting tie downs.

[Silveredwings]

Darin, you're missing a grommit around your brake line.

[JanGeo]

If you compress the suspension using the full length of the spring then you are going to top out pretty hard on rebound and break the strapping material - not cool to get straps stuck in the front wheel. Too bad you can't cut a hole and screw the coil spring through it to make it adjustable height. Sounds like we need some threaded top hats.

[MetroMPG]

Darin, you're missing a grommit around your brake line.

They were optional on this model :D

If you compress the suspension using the full length of the spring then you are going to top out pretty hard on rebound and break the strapping material

My string lasted about a week, and then broke (both sides, front). This would only have to last for 3 bidirectional runs on a flat, smooth road!

[JanGeo]

Too bad no one makes lowering gas shocks - add pressure to lower the ride and stiffen the coils.

[SVOboy]

Tein makes some electronically adjustable coilovers for my car and koni makes shocks that you can change the height on by moving the spring's mount point on the shock, :)

No love for the geo though.

[JanGeo]

Shoot get some other Geo springs and cut them down!!!

[MetroMPG]

Don't forget the part about wanting to do an experiment. I need to be able to restore the OEM ride height on the side of the road in < 5 minutes. So far I'm liking zip ties and ratchet straps.

[MetroMPG]

PS - I'd also bet on barely measurable result for 1.5 inches on this car @ 55 mph. Or a very small result, < 2%. But Lexus does it for CdA. So did Lincoln. But before I go making my car ride worse for no good reason, I want to try it.

[JanGeo]

You know I got like around 60mpg on my Geo on a trip to Western PA when on my way back with the car fully loaded and riding low.

[Silveredwings]

PS - I'd also bet on barely measurable result for 1.5 inches on this car @ 55 mph. Or a very small result, < 2%. But Lexus does it for CdA. So did Lincoln. But before I go making my car ride worse for no good reason, I want to try it.

You must need a combo of lowered ride height and optimum ground effects to reduce the drag beneath the car.

BTW, If you start dragging the frame, you've lowered it far enough.

[MetroMPG]

Someone pointed out to me recently that I really ought to test the aero mods at higher speeds. Since drag rises with the square of velocity (did I say that right - I understand the concept perfectly, but always feel like I'm saying it backwards), for purposes of measurement, I'd be better off going faster in the tests since the difference (if there is one) will stand out better from the normal noise of variability.

They're right. The only reason I don't, is because I don't drive faster than 55. And I want to know actual readings, rather than extrapolating down from a higher speed. I should probably reconsider.

[tomauto]

Well maybe they say that because with going faster there will be more of a difference (to be more concrete) but...you can never take away the variables at any speed unless you are in Physics I lab.


On a related note....A little bit of Ground Control and Koni love.

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/5760/dsc05871largeyr4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1294/dsc05873largeir0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[thisisntjared]

my konis rock and roll all night... and party every day

[tomauto]

my old suspension is soo ****ty, i can't wait to swap it out...

[ZugyNA]

Don't forget the part about wanting to do an experiment. I need to be able to restore the OEM ride height on the side of the road in < 5 minutes. So far I'm liking zip ties and ratchet straps.

I have one word: HYDRAULICS!

Make it into a lowrider....then you can do all kinds of stuff. :thumbup:

[Coyote X]

How about lower the car to the height you want it. take the bolt off the top of the strut so it can drop down. Jack the car up to release tension on the spring then stick a u shaped shim made out of a wood block like a 1x6. the wood is 3/4 but since the spring will sit flat on top and not ride in the groove made for it that should get the car up around an inch. And if you get lucky lowering the jack the strut bolt will stick back through the hole, just slap the nut on and move to the other side.

PS this is how I lowered my car Just took the nut off the strut and jacked the car up. I used a 4 1/2 inch cutoff wheel and cut the spring twice, half a coil at a time. Then just dropped the car down keeping the strut lined up to go back in the hole. Prob 20 min to cut both front springs and have the car sitting lower. Didn't even take off the tires. Back was sagging real bad already :)

Another idea is that interior weight is likely no difference to level road, steady state driving so just add some 45lb weights to the front floorboards and back seat. That will squat the car plenty.

[cfg83]

Hello -

You can get these :

http://home.earthlink.net/~cfg83/gassavers/coil_spring_aduster.gif

Here :

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005888/p-2005888/N-111+10201+600003419/c-10101

Or at a Pep Boys or equivalent. They seem to be 7 bucks for two, which can compress one spring, so the test would set you back 28 bucks plus tax.

My car expert told me that this is fine for a temporary test, but not a permanent solution. Someone else said to be carefull not to scratch the springs when you do this (to avoid weakening them?).

Zip Ties sound cool too, but maybe you would risk scratching the spring when you try to cut them off. Would you melt them off? I wouldn't like to be in the wheelwell trying to get them off when they go "SNAP!".

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

Someone pointed out to me recently that I really ought to test the aero mods at higher speeds. Since drag rises with the square of velocity (did I say that right - I understand the concept perfectly, but always feel like I'm saying it backwards), for purposes of measurement, I'd be better off going faster in the tests since the difference (if there is one) will stand out better from the normal noise of variability.

They're right. The only reason I don't, is because I don't drive faster than 55. And I want to know actual readings, rather than extrapolating down from a higher speed. I should probably reconsider.

This makes alot of sense for the purpose of a test. If you can prove an improvement, then you can justify the change.

I wish I could get away with driving at or below 55 all the time. They'd shoot me on the 710 :mad: .

CarloSW2

[ZugyNA]

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005888/p-2005888/N-111+10201+600003419/c-10101

Or at a Pep Boys or equivalent. They seem to be 7 bucks for two, which can compress one spring, so the test would set you back 28 bucks plus tax.

My car expert told me that this is fine for a temporary test, but not a permanent solution. Someone else said to be carefull not to scratch the springs when you do this (to avoid weakening them?).

CarloSW2

I've had these on a car to lower it for at least 2 yrs...no problems. Now have some to raise it...on my wagon for about 3 yrs/30K miles. Used this offraod on rough trails. The ends are soft steel...won't scratch the springs.

[psyshack]

I would not do the test.

IMO this cant be done with safty in mind at all. Those spring claps break. Ive seen them shoot out from under cars more than once.

Also your struts have worn into a area of travel they see the most. Changing that area of travel by lowering it may well cause a strut of two to fail.

All that being said: I have seen folks use chain to hold a compressed suspension in place for testing. The trick is to find a place high in the frame or unibody for the upper mpunt point. Then wrap the chain around a lower control arm with a peice of rubber to protect the compnent from the beating it will take from the chain.

Good luck. OOOO and wear a helment.... lolololololo

[FormulaTwo]

I think that if you do end up doing a lowering test. you need to consider alignment issues. Height changes will rearrange you toe, camber etc...


If you could get ahold of some cheap coilovers, i would spring ( not pun intended) for them. You can usually find these for around $100 on ebay, not sure if they have them for your car, i doubt it, but you may be able to rig up someething in your car, depending on the spring rates.


I know some alignment shops here will do a complete alignment where you can come back and get it aligned as much as you want for 6 months afterwards all for like $120 with a warranty.

that would get you pretty close to a consistent A-B-A Test.