Using the distributor to create ozone

[SVOboy]

So, you're sposed to drill a hole in the distributor cap, run a tube from there somewhere downstream of the trottle body and make sure your distributor is vented. The spark in the distributor creates ozone and this ozone goes into the air fuel mixture and burns like hell, 15% plus increase I hear, anyone done it or wanna try it? I haven't seen any pictures of it yet, unfortunately.

<a href=http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?p=51577#post51577 target=_blank>Some discussion</a>
<a href=http://absoluteprelude.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t13874.html target=_blank>Prelude discussion</a>
<a href=http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=63733 target=_blank>Acura site, good basics</a>

[diamondlarry]

I'm not sure if this is where the origin of creating an ozone generator started, but here is a link to a thread on mpg research.
http://forum.mpgresearch.com/viewtopic.php?t=5&highlight=ozone I hope this is helpful. Maybe mpg Mike would have some pictures.
Larry

[SVOboy]

Yep, that's the origin, I saw it a few weeks ago but forgot about it cuz it didn't make any sense at the time, right now, however, I'm think I've got it and if I can find another distributor cap I'll try it.

[Matt Timion]

I think someone needs to try this. Maybe I'll get a spare cap at the junkyard the next time I go and see if I can construct one of these.

DiamondLarry if you can get a picture that would be awesome.

[SVOboy]

It's a piece of cake to make I think, just the hole, a line from the hole t-ed into the intake (though I've also heard after the throttle body)

[Matt Timion]

It's a piece of cake to make I think, just the hole, a line from the hole t-ed into the intake (though I've also heard after the throttle body)

AFTER the throttle body? I'd hate to drill a hole in my intake manifold. Are you sure it wasn't BEFORE the throttle body?

[SVOboy]

I thought it was before, just someone said after all of a sudden and I was like, what the hell, I'm sure he mean before though.

[diamondlarry]

I wish I could try this out on my car. Since I don't have a distributor, I'll have see how it works out for you guys. I'll look into trying to get a picture.

[Matt Timion]

I wish I could try this out on my car. Since I don't have a distributor, I'll have see how it works out for you guys. I'll look into trying to get a picture.

Uhm, saturns don't have distributors? Now I'm confused.

[SVOboy]

Yeah, me too.

[diamondlarry]

No. They only have coilpacks. Everything is driven by the ECU and sensors.

[SVOboy]

That's crazy! Wow, hmm, well that stinks for you, I guess, haha, even though you're kicking my *** in the mpg game, but I figure once I do my head swap I'll be up there if not winning.

[Compaq888]

Actually it's better to have a distributeless car. Less crap that will break. Most new cars coming out are distributeless.

[Compaq888]

Actually it's better to have a distributeless car. Less crap that will break. Most new cars coming out are distributeless.

[diamondlarry]

My 1995 Neon was the same way. SVOboy: If you beat me, you gotta tell me how you do it:D

[SVOboy]

If I beat you it'll be buy swapping heads, if you dunno what that means (I wouldn't if I didn't spend so much time on how to drive fast websites) it is basically like swapping the entire engine, because the block (bottom half) is basically the same anyway.

[diamondlarry]

The good thing about this website is that if you win, we all win :-) I used to do things like swapping heads on my old Rambler's but everything is so complicated nowadays compared to back then.

[SVOboy]

Haha, that's true, I like that view on things. Swapping heads on the honda ain't all the bad, a little bit, but I wanna do something else already that requires about the same work so I can double do it.

[SVOboy]

<a href=http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?p=51577#post51577 target=_blank>New link</a>
I haven't read it yet, just wanna get it out there.

[SVOboy]

<a href=http://absoluteprelude.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t13874.html target=_blank>Another link</a>
Haven't read this either yet!

[SVOboy]

<a href=http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=63733 target=_blank>Last one!</a>

[Diemaster]

i hate throw a wrench in the cam's here but if u have a line going to the dizzy and a vent line, isisnt that a major vacume leak? causing your car to run high idle?

and what is AFTER throtle? is that coming from airbox to motor or vice versa?

if u got vacume in your dizzy and a vent hole i'd be woried bout **** getting in the dizzy, causing it not to work (oil or water for ex.), or it getting dirty in dusty climates. maybie make the vent AFTER the filter and the vacume AFTER the throttle.

also the cap/rotor is designed not to spark. only if instaled impropaly do they. on this note maybe put some washer between the cap and dizzy on the mounting holes. my only consern would be water. :S

[diamondlarry]

Here is some information about the ozone generator. This is the link:
http://fueleconomytips.com/content/view/59/30/

Almost Free Ozone Generator
Sunday, 06 November 2005
Ozone is 3 or more oxygen atoms combined into a single molecule. In its 2 atom state, oxygen gas is quite stable. It is fairly happy with life and isn’t looking for any changes. In the combustion process, it takes extreme pressures, temperatures, and even a spark to get it mad enough to get nasty with the fuel molecules in the combustion process. Ozone, on the other hand, is the big bully looking to pick a fight with anything or anybody that gets near it. Ozone is unstable in its ionic state and therefore is far more reactive with the fuel molecules. What this means is that a little bit of ozone in the combustion process lights things quicker, and burns hotter and more ferociously than oxygen alone. Ozone puts more power to the wheels on the same amount of fuel, or requires less fuel for the same amount of power.

There are a couple of methods of generating ozone, but if your engine has a distributor, it is already making enough ozone to have a positive impact on power and fuel economy. All we need to do is draw it from the distributor cap into the air induction system without creating other problems.



Vented CapIf your distributor cap is old enough that it needs to be replaced anyway, get a good one. Blue Streak, Echlin, MSD, and others use quality material for the cap itself, plus they use brass terminals instead of aluminum. You can find distributor caps online at Midway Auto Supply, or shop through the RebateZone portal and get %3 of your distributor price back from SHOP.com (Catalog City). In addition to the cap, you are going to need a length of plastic vacuum hose, the type used on most modern engines, long enough to go from your distributor cap to the throttle body (or carburetor) of your engine. It is approximately 3/32” in diameter. Junk yards will probably just give you the stuff. Even at the auto parts stores, it isn’t very expensive.



Required ToolsYou will also need some sort of “glue” to hold the plastic tubing in place. Pictured is anerobic sealer, but JB Weld is another good choice. You can use either a 3/32” drill bit, or a #24 bit. You may need a “T” to splice into an existing vacuum line if your vehicle doesn’t have a blocked manifold vacuum port.



Vented Distributor, not capThe distributor cap you choose must be vented, or the distributor must be vented. Both would be best. Without a vent, we will be putting the inside of the distributor cap under a vacuum. This will create 2 problems: first, it will tend to draw oil up through the shaft of the distributor, but secondly and most importantly, a vacuum inside the distributor cap will create such severe spark scatter that the engine will not run! I saw an engine barely run because the owner installed a non-vented distributor cap, even without drawing out the ozone. The vacuum was created by the PCV system putting vacuum in the crankcase, which migrated up the shaft of the distributor. That cap lasted less than 2 weeks before failure.





Hole opposite Vent



Tube is FlushWe want to drill our 3/32” hole in our distributor cap opposite the vent (see picture). This will allow a crossflow, where fresh air is drawn in through the vent, and ozone is pulled out through our plastic vacuum line. With the hole drilled, apply a thin coating of sealer to the end of the vacuum line and insert it into the cap flush with the inside of the cap. If the cap is 1/16” thick, insert the line 1/16” deep. Allow your sealer to dry and set as per the directions on the product.

Once the “glue” is dry, install your new distributor cap. The vacuum line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum for best results. Many vehicles have a vacuum block where all of the accessories draw their vacuum. This would be the easiest place to put your vacuum line. If your engine doesn’t have such a block, look for a nipple with a cap over it on the throttle body and install the vacuum line there. Check to be sure you have vacuum at idle. If you are still coming up empty, then you’ll need to “T” into an existing line. The following are a few acceptable sources of vacuum: fuel pressure regulator, map sensor, PCV hose, or any solenoid, switch, gizmo, or gadget that sees vacuum all of the time.

That’s it! You’re all done. I went from 33 to 38 mpg on an ’83 Dodge Rampage, 18 to 23 mpg on a ’91 Ford Ranger, 12 to 13 mpg on a ’73 Plymouth Road Runner, and 21 to 24 mpg on a Chevy Astro. Part throttle torque is also improved, as is idle quality and cold start driveability.



Ready to Install


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[DaX]

Obviously this mod was not done on a speed density FI system, because if it was, the post throttle plate location for the vacuum source would cause an idle surge on a speed density FI system. The problem caused with a MAS FI system is not an increased idle, but a lean condition, because the air drawn in through the distributor is post MAS sensor [if post throttle plate] and not accounted for when calculating how much fuel to inject. I'm wondering if the increase in mileage is not from the o3 but from the slightly leaner condition caused by the 'vacuum leak' on the MAS FI system.

[Matt Timion]

Obviously this mod was not done on a speed density FI system, because if it was, the post throttle plate location for the vacuum source would cause an idle surge on a speed density FI system. The problem caused with a MAS FI system is not an increased idle, but a lean condition, because the air drawn in through the distributor is post MAS sensor [if post throttle plate] and not accounted for when calculating how much fuel to inject. I'm wondering if the increase in mileage is not from the o3 but from the slightly leaner condition caused by the 'vacuum leak' on the MAS FI system.

I was actually thinking the exact same thing...

well, not exactly, but something close to it.

It seems that this works well with carborated engines, but carborated engines have a lot of room to grow. FI engines do not have that much room to grow.

That being said, I'm wondering if this will work on a Honda DPFI b/c it is nothing more than a "glorified carb."

[DaX]

I'm wondering if this will work on a Honda DPFI b/c it is nothing more than a "glorified carb."

Honda DPFI is still a speed density system - if the vacuum is sourced post throttle plate, the 'leak' from the vented distributor cap will cause an increase in idle RPM.

[SVOboy]

Went ahead and refilled due to the lower gas prices and due to installing the ozone input setup.

Drove only about 1/2 the usual miles (165) before a fillup...but got my best mpg yet at 31...all around.

Previous best was 28.5 last summer after installing magnets and stopping the use of acetone...still had less than 1 oz per 10 G in the tank for this gain.

This last tank was supposed to be a test for this condition...except for the fact that I had some Coleman's and Maxpower oil in the mix....but had set up the ozone...so I terminated this test.

So the 31 mpg result is from either the lower amount of acetone plus very little Coleman's/Maxpower oil or the ozone or BOTH. I'd guess it's mostly the ozone.

31 mpg represents a 32% gain on a possibly too high baseline...we got us a WEINER.

I'd recommend drawing the air into the dist from the top of the engine and towards the back of it using a small fuel filter on the end of a vac tube...this would lessen the chance of drawing in humid air. And as the engine cools off...there should be little difference from stock as far as condensation problems.

This guy has a fuel injected 93 caravan, I think, by the way, he just did his system like two days ago when I first posted this.

[SVOboy]

DrDisco69 has told me he's gonna do this on his car since he's got a spare dizzy, I'm looking forward to seeing it, especially since I have the same engine and everything as he.

[rh77]

I'm thinking of replacing the distributor cap soon and wondered if anyone out there tried this Ozone generator idea.

Another thought -- my home HEPA filter fan has a switch on it to create ozone (attracting dust particles more readily) -- I never use it because of the negative side effects of filling a room with ozone.

Can a device (not a complicated Tesla coil, like in some examples) but a simple ozone generator be hooked up (I assume an inverter would be required).

Also, it isn't clear -- can the ozone be injected before the air filter, or tapped post-filter into the vaccum system like the brake booster line?

RH77

[Capcom]

As Ozone is very oxidizing and unstable: Wouldn't it prematurely ignite the fuel during compression stroke ?

[rh77]

As Ozone is very oxidizing and unstable: Wouldn't it prematurely ignite the fuel during compression stroke ?

Further research has proven that unfortunately Ozone (03) has a high oxidizing potential, which goes back to an idea I had of injecting oxygen into the intake -- basically it would eat away at any aluminum (heads, etc.) and destroy the engine. Darn. I hoped it was a lesser oxidizer, being more stable.

RH77

[SVOboy]

I wonder how people have been able to run it so successfully if it is so evil.

[Matt Timion]

I wonder how people have been able to run it so successfully if it is so evil.

There are a couple of theories about this. One is that there is no real ozone being created and the fuel economy benefit is actually due to a vacuum leak. This is potentially damaging to the engine. Perhaps they are getting o3 in their intake and the observed fuel economy benefit is due to this. I'd still like to see long term effects of this experiment, none of which I have been able to find.

The acetone guy has been adding acetone for 50 years to his vehicle (according to him). At least with acetone we have a long term history of use.

[CosmicMC]

I don't think the ozone theory here is going to work. The amount of ozone generated under the distributor cap is so tiny in comparison to the volume of air needed to operate the engine that any difference caused by the ozone itself would probably be immeasurable. If there is a difference in fuel economy, as dax mentioned, it's probably because you've created a vacuum leak and are leaning out the fuel/air ratio. That by itself can cause problems, not to mention you're now moving air through the distributor which was not meant to have that volume of air (and who knows what else) moving through it. I can't imagine any way this could be made to be worth more than the potential problems it would cause.

[dean]

Wouldn't the computer sense the excess oxygen via the O2 sensor adjust the fuel mixture?

[CosmicMC]

Wouldn't the computer sense the excess oxygen via the O2 sensor adjust the fuel mixture?

To a degree, yes. A PCM can only adjust fuel trim rates so much before the fuel maps run out. To what extent they are able to enrich the mixture depends on the car. Other things to consider are that the IAT, MAF, and TPS don't know about this newfound vacuum leak and can't account for it, and the idle control may not be able to compensate for the entire thing. The unknowns this system places on the system puts a lot of faith on the O2 sensor to compensate, and for a very tiny amount of ozone which will have an unknown but almost certainly minuscule effect. Any time you introduce unknowns where previously there were none, you inherently also introduce inefficiencies, and you've opened up possibilities for damage that weren't there before. In the long run, I can't imagine this solution is worth the money. It takes fuel and money to create a new distributor cap. My contention is that the potential gains don't even come close to covering those costs.

[DaX]

Other things to consider are that the IAT, MAF, and TPS don't know about this newfound vacuum leak and can't account for it, and the idle control may not be able to compensate for the entire thing.

Just to add to this that that is the case for cars that run on MAF systems. Us Honda guys and other cars that run on speed-density systems will just see a hideous increase in RPM with the vacuum leak.