Intake Air Temp resistor experiment.

[usedgeo]

My Intake Air Temperature resistor EXP

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Intake Air Temp resistor experiments
Copied from general discussion.

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I saw some postings and some mentions but not too much on IAT resistors. Almost everytthing on the net is about more power not fuel economy. I apologize if this has been beat to death years ago.

I just went for the gold. I put in the lowest resistance that the computer would accept without setting a code for Intake Air Temp out of range and compared that with a 10k resister. Here is a little range of experiments and the intake temp I see on the Scangauge. I just used the nominal values of the resistors rather than measuring them. A co-worker tried to tell me about these "chips" a year ago or so and I just totally discounted it. This is darn near the stuff of urban legends. These resistors are 99 cents for a pack of five at Radio Shack. I have never done so much so cheaply before in my life. This is on my 2001 Saturn SL.

10k ohm IAT 28 F
940 ohm IAT 198F
136 ohm IAT 233 F this is two 68 resistors in series.
068 ohm IAT 279 F set an out of range code.

I did an ABAB experiment on the same 8.5 mile loop trying to drive identically. The lights did not cooperate 100% but I judge the experiment valid. The two runs with the 10k ohms were 43.3 and 44.1 mpg. The two runs with the 136 ohms were 61.0 and 63.9 mpg. The average speeds ranged from 29-31 mph. The difference between the average mpg's is 18.75 mpg giving an increase of 43%. The 10k ohm resistor was a slight handicap as the actual temp was 40 F. It was not far off since when I filled up yesterday my tank average was 46.2 mpg and this is just a little better than the 43.7 average of the two 10k runs.

Summary
136 ohm 61.0 mpg
10k ohm 43.3 mpg
136 ohm 63.9 mpg
10k ohm 44.1 mpg

Average difference 18.75 mpg or 43% using the 10k ohm mileage as the base.

I then went out on the freeway and made a 16 mile total loop at 60 mph and got over 60 mpg without any engine off coasting. I just drove easy. I did a bit of idle coasting on the last bit coming home as I could see the average was at 59 and wanted to break 60 mpg.

This morning I did the trip to work starting with a cold engine, I did not need to go to work it is just a familiar route. Against the slight grade and more than slight wind I made 53.8 mpg to work on the freeway at 61 mph. There was no drafting. The instantaneous mileage was between 55 and 60 mpg. I never shut off the engine but reset the current trip at work and started home. I came home on secondary roads so I could drive slower and pulse and glide with the wind to my back. By the time I got to near 1/2 way home my average was 112 mpg. I then lost a bit on as the lights would not turn green until I triggered them myself in the light Sunday morning traffic. I had to get into 2nd gear at several lights. At the stop sign at one road I botched the takeoff and lost about a mile per gallon. I only mention this because the trip home averaged 99.6 mpg. Darn it all anyway. The round trip averaged 70 mpg at an average speed of 40 mph. Here is the "today" summary:
70 mpg
40 mph ave
63 max
28.7 miles

My car obviously has a sensor that tells it when I am in fifth gear. The instantaneous mileage makes a distinct jump now when I hit fifth gear. Something beyond the usual expected with a shift. I can accelerate decently on a slight upgrade at 40 mph in 5th gear and get 50-60 mpg during the acceleration. This does more than just adjust the timing. I can watch the timing and while it changes some with the resistor the change is not that great and something else is going on. Some think it leans the engine out but it is running closed loop. My current theory suggests EGR. I have run engines lean and ruined one turbo 2.3 Ford engine running it lean. This does not feel lean. Drivability is not suffering in the least. I am excessively short shifting to get into fifth gear as soon as I can because I see the immediate benefit.

The only aero mods to my car are blocking the grill and removing the spoiler. I have not even proven that removing the spoiler is a good thing.

This is pretty unbelievable. Nothing will be really confirmed until more distance passes and I have to fill up and check the calibration again on the Scangauge. Last check was within 0.5% yesterday. I hope this is for real. It sure looks that way. I suspect that the exhaust temp is probably not warm enough to keep the catalytic converters on line. Just speculation at this point.

If someone else was writing this I would not believe it either.

Ernie

[Red]

Nice report :)

My car obviously has a sensor that tells it when I am in fifth gear. The instantaneous mileage makes a distinct jump now when I hit fifth gear. Something beyond the usual expected with a shift. I can accelerate decently on a slight upgrade at 40 mph in 5th gear and get 50-60 mpg during the acceleration. This does more than just adjust the timing. I can watch the timing and while it changes some with the resistor the change is not that great and something else is going on. Some think it leans the engine out but it is running closed loop. My current theory suggests EGR. I have run engines lean and ruined one turbo 2.3 Ford engine running it lean. This does not feel lean. Drivability is not suffering in the least. I am excessively short shifting to get into fifth gear as soon as I can because I see the immediate benefit.

So what do you think EGR is doing? It was my understanding that by making the ECU think its inhaling an inferno it will use less fuel at the cost of power. But you are saying that its not driving noticeably different?

[usedgeo]

Nice report :)

So what do you think EGR is doing? It was my understanding that by making the ECU think its inhaling an inferno it will use less fuel at the cost of power. But you are saying that its not driving noticeably different?

I would not say I that I am not losing power. I really haven't used hard acceleration lately. I meant to say that it is running very smoothly with no bucking or hint of a lean condition. This was just beyond my wildest expectations.

With respect to the EGR it is partly used to limit detonation and control peak combustion temperature. When the engine is fed very hot air both of these will increase. I think the EGR ratio is increasing and this is lowering the throttle loss. The only instruments I have that could give a verdict on this are the TPS and MAP sensors. It was just too much to watch in my excitement.

Ernie

[repete86]

I've been meaning to do this, but I'm not sure of exactly how to perform this modification. I'm pretty useless under the hood. I couldn't even find the IAT sensor under the hood. What exactly should I be looking for?

[diamondlarry]

You would be looking for a connector on the tube that let's air into the air cleaner box. I suppose that some manufacturers may put an IAT after the aircleaner but, on my Saturn, it's near the end of the tube that extends outside of the engine compartment.

[usedgeo]

[QUOTE=What exactly should I be looking for?[/QUOTE]
It is a small connector on the other side of the aircleaner from the pipe to the manifold. It is down about 3 inches below the cross stucture just to the front of the air cleaner. You can just reach it. I chose to pull the aircleaner assemble to get my hands on the wires. There were three 10mm headed bolts holding the air cleaner in on my car. Here are some excellent instructions. These are just for a different purpose and a different car but the principle is the same.

http://kingenterprises.net/IAT-Timing-Tricker.htm


Ernie

[repete86]

Thanks alot!

[JanGeo]

I gotta believe that you are forcing an extra lean condition that the O2 sensor feelback can not compensate for and are producing a lot more NO2 emissions as a result. Pretty impressive results however.

[zpiloto]

That's interesting. That's been discussed here before and it seems to work with the Saturns but not with those kinds of results. I wonder if you have something else going on with the engine. Maybe pull the plugs after a few more trips to see what they look like. You have hit the mother load :). Keep us posted.

[MetroMPG]

Too bad the SG doesn't show short/long term fuel trim - that would answer some questions.

JanGeo: if the O2 sensor wasn't able to correct for a lean condition, I'm pretty sure it would throw a code, wouldn't it?

[usedgeo]

I gotta believe that you are forcing an extra lean condition that the O2 sensor feelback can not compensate for and are producing a lot more NO2 emissions as a result. Pretty impressive results however.

I have no data based reason to disagree with you. Another known phenomena is HCCI Homogenous Charge Compression Ignition. It is very difficult to control but Honda has managed to do so for some years now on 2-stroke scooters sold external to the US. They call it Active Radical Combustion. It is associated with high EGR rates, but that is a real stretch in this case. That is very unlikely. Major corporations such as Catepillar are spending large sums trying to control HCCI but the efficiency gains are in line with what I am experiencing. Here is a definition. This actually is associated with low levels of NO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HCCI

Ernie

[cfg83]

usedgeo -

(copied from http://www.gassavers.org/showpost.php?p=41918&postcount=2)

Thanks for making a new thread on this. I keep imagining a "clicking dial" on my dashboard that goes from "off" to different resistor settings that mess with the IAT input. Different cars can have different resistors. I don't think a potentiometer would work because the resistance range is too great (right?).

1 - For car ECU/PCMs that like this mod, I think it makes a big difference. I also think that, if possible, it would be nice to know what the emissions are. For the purpose of an experiment, anything goes, but I also want to know the long term effects are on the emissions.

2 - You'll burn your valves out! Ha ha ! This is the "A Christmas Story" argument, aka "you'll shoot your eyes out!". How is you engine doing? Can you gauge the engine temperature with and without the mod? Since we are "driving gentle" I don't think the engine is at risk, but I would like to know that the long term effects are on the car and what the "danger zone" is.

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

MetroMPG -

Too bad the SG doesn't show short/long term fuel trim - that would answer some questions.

JanGeo: if the O2 sensor wasn't able to correct for a lean condition, I'm pretty sure it would throw a code, wouldn't it?

If you know the code, you can get a solicited response from the ECU/PCM (in hex :thumbdown: ), but that won't help you with continuous monitoring.

This will become available on the next generation of SG software, where you have programmable gauges.

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

usedgeo-

I would not say I that I am not losing power. I really haven't used hard acceleration lately. I meant to say that it is running very smoothly with no bucking or hint of a lean condition. This was just beyond my wildest expectations.

With respect to the EGR it is partly used to limit detonation and control peak combustion temperature. When the engine is fed very hot air both of these will increase. I think the EGR ratio is increasing and this is lowering the throttle loss. The only instruments I have that could give a verdict on this are the TPS and MAP sensors. It was just too much to watch in my excitement.

Ernie

Here is what I read. I apologize for not having the URL :( . In lean burn conditions that go to far, you can burn out your catalytic converter. Here is an ideal world test that you could do if you have the $$ to burn :

1 - Get a high temperature thermometer that is rated to about 1000 degrees.

2 - Install it post catalytic converter. EDIT : INSTALL IN EXHAUST HEADER, NOT POST CAT

3 - Run the car as normal without the IAT mod.

4 - Run the car with the mod.

In step 4 you *should* see the temperature increase as compared to step 3. If the temperature increases 180 degrees F over the temperatures in step 3, then you are in danger of damaging your catalytic converter (EDIT : DAMAGE WILL RESULT TO VALVES, NOT CAT). For me, that would mean shooting for a "safe" maximum of 100 degrees F over step 3.

EDIT : SEE (http://www.gassavers.org/showpost.php?p=42719&postcount=8) FOR SOURCE OF INFO.

CarloSW2

[JanGeo]

What may happen is the table for the fuel injection has entries for that false air temperature but the O2 sensor can only correct for slight deviations from the table entries. If you have a lot of EGR gasses coming back in then that would reduce the NO2 levels. Isn't NO2 Nitrious Oxide and a combustion enhanser?? Humm that would explain the dizzyness I felt one time when I got a big whiff of a car's exhost.

[repete86]

If that's the case, will an altered O2 sensor correct the emissions increase? EFIE makes a voltage alteration chip for the O2 sensor that exists so that you can make the O2 sensor give off a false reading.

[JanGeo]

yes but again it can only correct so far - within the expected variations that is programmed into the ECU injection tables. This is why when a Turbo is added the tables have to be reprogrammed to allow for more than usual fuel when more than expected air is forced into the engine and to run a little richer to prevent detonation. Changing the readings from the O2 sensor will operate the CAT at the wrong temp fuel gasses mixtures and could result in costly damage but it sure does increase the MPG!

[cfg83]

repete86 -

If that's the case, will an altered O2 sensor correct the emissions increase? EFIE makes a voltage alteration chip for the O2 sensor that exists so that you can make the O2 sensor give off a false reading.

I just ordered one for my hydrogen gizmo thingy. Of multiple exhaust mod choices to go with the gizmo, this is the easiest mod because it is "automatic" (you dial-in the air/fuel ratio bias). This will give me a guaranteed lean-burn condition. I also have access to a dyno through my mechanic, so I will be in a position to quantify my emissions. The goal is lean-burn and NOx compliance.

CarloSW2

[repete86]

I would have been doing this with the intention of reducing emissions. I'm going to have to do more research to find a way to fix this problem. My mileage improvements have been done for environmental, not economic reasons.

[cfg83]

repete86 -

I would have been doing this with the intention of reducing emissions. I'm going to have to do more research to find a way to fix this problem. My mileage improvements have been done for environmental, not economic reasons.

My goal is to comply with clean emissions also. The law, in the case of California, is pretty strict. If I can comply with California emissions, then I am good to go.

Lean-burn, from what I understand, reduces HC and CO emissions. It's the NOx emissions that go up. NOx emissions is the bain of diesels. I think that the key to Honda's new clean diesel is the emissions scrubber :

Honda Previews Next-Generation Engine and Power Technologies
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/09/honda_previews_.html

Next-Generation Diesel Engine. Honda’s new diesel, targeted for introduction in the US by 2009, will not use a urea-based SCR system to meet the US Tier 2 Bin 5 standards. (Earlier post.) Instead, it is using a combination of an advanced combustion management (PCCI) and a new NOx catalytic converter, about which it provided more details.

The new catalytic converter utilizes a two-layer structure: one layer adsorbs NOx from the exhaust gas and converts a portion of it into ammonia, while the other layer adsorbs the resulting ammonia, and uses it later in a reaction that converts the remaining NOx in the exhaust into nitrogen (N2).

Ammonia is a highly effective reagent for reducing NOx into N2 in an oxygen-rich, lean-burn atmosphere—urea-based SCR system derive ammonia from the urea.

Honda’s ability to generate and store ammonia within the catalytic converter enables the creation of a compact, lightweight NOx reduction system for diesel engines. The system also features enhanced NOx reduction performance at 200–300ºC, the main temperature range of diesel engines.


However, please don't hesitate to *test* the mod :) .

CarloSW2

[repete86]

The problem is that I live in Florida. The state of Florida doesn't believe in things such as emissions, so I have to do what I do based on what will most likely lower my emissions since I have no way of testing affordably. I would really ideally like to even outdo Japan's emission requirements.

[cfg83]

repete86 -

The problem is that I live in Florida. The state of Florida doesn't believe in things such as emissions, so I have to do what I do based on what will most likely lower my emissions since I have no way of testing affordably. I would really ideally like to even outdo Japan's emission requirements.

.... Wait, now I understand. You have no rules ....

Florida Smog & Emission Checks
http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/smog-check.php
As of July 1, 2000, the State of Florida abolished the auto emissions test requirement for all vehicles throughout the state. The smog-tackling program only lasted nine years, and had often been a fiercely political issue for many Florida residents and legislators. Several counties allegedly registered air clean enough to make the tests obsolete, but even the counties with continuing poor air quality are looking for alternate ways to breathe easy again.

That's not to say that Florida doesn't care about clean air; in fact, the state is rewarding those people who purchase automobiles that are EPA-certified as Inherently Low Emission Vehicles (ILEV), including hybrids. All ILEV drivers are eligible to drive in a High Occupancy Vehicle lane at any time, regardless of how many people are riding in the car. Check this list to see if your vehicle qualifies.

If it does, fill out the Application for HOV Decal to receive a sticker for your car. Submit the completed application to your local county Tax Collector's office. The fee is $5 and the decal must be renewed annually.


If I were in your situation, I would take advantage of Florida and just get it to work first. I checked and Georgia has emissions requirements. Eventually you can put the car on a dyno over there.

From my POV, the idea is to in increase MPG "within the rules" of emissions that everyone else has to comply with. You've been given a no-rules barred experimental lab. Go for it!!!!!

Here's Georgia emissions requirements :

Georgia Smog & Emission Checks
http://www.dmv.org/ga-georgia/smog-check.php
All gasoline-powered passenger cars and light trucks 1982 and newer in the following Georgia counties must pass an emission inspection before being issued license plates:

* Cherokee
* Clayton
* Cobb
* Coweta
* DeKalb
* Douglas
* Fayette
* Forsyth
* Fulton
* Gwinnett
* Henry
* Paulding
* Rockdale

Motorcycles, RVs, and motor homes do not require emissions testing.

The cost of emission testing varies from $10 to $25, depending on location.

If your vehicle does not pass the test, you will be required to make the necessary repairs and will be given one free retest within 30 days of the original test.



CarloSW2

[repete86]

I think I will. Any ideas for countering the NOx emissions being created by the resistor mod though? I'm thinking that if I add a second, or maybe even two more catalytic converters behind the first one that I might be able to counter them at least partially. Again, I know very little about the mechanics of a car. Does this make sense, or am I way off?

[cfg83]

repete86 -

I think I will. Any ideas for countering the NOx emissions being created by the resistor mod though? I'm thinking that if I add a second, or maybe even two more catalytic converters behind the first one that I might be able to counter them at least partially. Again, I know very little about the mechanics of a car. Does this make sense, or am I way off?

I don't know how to reduce NOx. If I were you and I had access to a dyno, I would keep putting in resistors until I found the one that would fail emissions. Then, I would use the previous resistor that still passed emissions. In this way you would be pushing the envelope but still "playing by the rules".

I'm also not a mechanic. Other people have asked about multiple catalytic converters, so maybe someone else will pipe up on this.

Question : Would a secondary catalytic converter designed for a diesel reduce lean-burn NOx?????

The following is NOT an advocacy for the gizmo I am evaluating, but I do like the analysis that is presented because it first talks about stock engine emissions behavior :

Emissions Analysis With Hydrogen Boost
http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/August%202006.html

In the above article, a "steady-throttle" is one key to low emissions in all cars. I think this would be true in the lean-burn case as well. As a gentle GasSaver driver, you may already be emphasizing behavior that reduces your emissions.

Here is something else on cat-cons. I think this is a good place to find "google phrases" to look elsewhere on the net :

How Catalytic Converters Work
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/catalytic-converter.htm

CarloSW2

[diamondlarry]

For a Saturn, you can go as low as 110 ohms before the ECU freaks out and throws a code. I have tried 105 ohms and got a code. At 110 ohms, the IAT shows 247F. With the cold weather, I have went up to 220 ohms. This is ~200F.

[JanGeo]

You guys should be using a potentiometer instead of fixed resistors that way you can just dial in the value you want.

[cfg83]

JanGeo-

You guys should be using a potentiometer instead of fixed resistors that way you can just dial in the value you want.

Yes, that's a good idea too, but I don't think the IAT sensors work on a linear scale. Here is an example of the temperature graph for my Saturn (please ignore the red lines and circles) :

http://home.earthlink.net/~cfg83/gassavers/iat_vs_ohms2.jpg

In the above example, in order to "dial in" IAT temperatures above 100 degrees, I would need a potentiometer that has a range of 63 (284 degrees F) to 1700 Ohms (100 degrees F). Do potentiometers come in this range? I would think that a 0-1500 ohm potentiometer would have "low granularity" at the bottom end of the dial.

CarloSW2

[diamondlarry]

I tried a potentiometer when I first started messing with the IAT mod. It was difficult to control down near the bottom of the range; very jumpy.

[cfg83]

diamondlarry -

I tried a potentiometer when I first started messing with the IAT mod. It was difficult to control down near the bottom of the range; very jumpy.

That's why I was imagining a dial that "clicked" into each position. I am imagining in my head a dial on the cockpit that had an OFF position and then X number of R(esistor) positions. In the off position, the real IAT input would go to the ECU/PCM. In the other R positions, you could have a breadboard with different (and changeable!!!) resistors of your choice. That way, there would be no "jumpiness", but you would still have control over the range of IAT temperatures.

Hrmmmm, sounds like a kid's electronic project to me. Where's my crystal radio kit!?!?!?!?!?!?

CarloSW2

[diamondlarry]

diamondlarry -



That's why I was imagining a dial that "clicked" into each position. I am imagining in my head a dial on the cockpit that had an OFF position and then X number of R(esistor) positions. In the off position, the real IAT input would go to the ECU/PCM. In the other R positions, you could have a breadboard with different (and changeable!!!) resistors of your choice. That way, there would be no "jumpiness", but you would still have control over the range of IAT temperatures.

Hrmmmm, sounds like a kid's electronic project to me. Where's my crystal radio kit!?!?!?!?!?!?

CarloSW2

I think you may be on to something. A different value for different stages of engine warmness.

[zpiloto]

I would have been doing this with the intention of reducing emissions. I'm going to have to do more research to find a way to fix this problem. My mileage improvements have been done for environmental, not economic reasons.

I applaude your decision. It's the same reason that I run a E15 blend.:thumbup:

[LxMike]

diamondlarry -



That's why I was imagining a dial that "clicked" into each position. I am imagining in my head a dial on the cockpit that had an OFF position and then X number of R(esistor) positions. In the off position, the real IAT input would go to the ECU/PCM. In the other R positions, you could have a breadboard with different (and changeable!!!) resistors of your choice. That way, there would be no "jumpiness", but you would still have control over the range of IAT temperatures.

Hrmmmm, sounds like a kid's electronic project to me. Where's my crystal radio kit!?!?!?!?!?!?

CarloSW2


Go for it buddy! you could market it as a mileage/performance chip for any vehicle and make millions selling on ebay!! :rolleyes: J/K!!!!!

I'm gonna see about doing this mod myself. maybe not with as low a resistance as usedgeo or diamondlarry. just to see if my car would respond to something like this.

[repete86]

Okay, I bought the resistors in order to start experimenting weith this project, but I'm having some problems under the hood. I can't seem to find anything that could be an IAT sensor. Is this an OBD2 thing? My car was built in '93.

[basjoos]

I tried a potentiometer when I first started messing with the IAT mod. It was difficult to control down near the bottom of the range; very jumpy.

Get an audio taper pot, which adjusts along on log scale rather than on a linear scale as do normal pots. In general, the more expensive the audio taper pot pot, the more log-like the output curve.

[LxMike]

well shucks! the haynes manual for my car shows where the iat is but when i went to look there was nothing there. all i found was a lil flat area on the intake tubing where it should have been. now i'm gonna have to go searching for it on my day off when i have more time and light.

[cfg83]

basjoos -

Get an audio taper pot, which adjusts along on log scale rather than on a linear scale as do normal pots. In general, the more expensive the audio taper pot pot, the more log-like the output curve.

Thanks, I didn't even know they existed. Here's some URLs describing them :

All About Audio Amplifiers
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Amp-Volume.html

The Secret Life of Pots
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm
The following diagram shows the three main kinds of pot tapers, along with one common approximation to an audio taper. Curve 1 is linear taper. If we clip one lead of our Ohmmeter (Hey! There he is again!) onto the leftmost lug, and the other lead on the center lug, then the resistance we read as we rotate the pot clockwise will fall on the curve that goes diagonally upwards. The proportion of the total pot resistance we traverse as we turn the pot is linearly proportional to the amount of rotational travel we turn.

Curve 2 shows what happens with an audio or logarithmic taper. As we turn the shaft, the proportion of resistance we traverse increases slowly at first, more slowly than the percentage of rotation. As we get past half the available rotation, the rate of resistance traversed speeds up as we get closer to the furthest rotation. This compensates for the human ear by increasing sound levels very slowly at first, then faster as the ear's sensitivity falls off at higher sound levels.

When we buy "audio taper" pots, we usually get something like Curve 3. For less expensive pots, manufacturers use a two or three-segment approximation to Curve 2. It's not perfect, but it usually works OK. Curve 4 is the typical resistance versus rotation curve for reverse log pots. In real life - that is, if you ever found one of these in real life - it is usually a two or three segment approximation, too.

If you have an unknown pot, you can figure out what taper it is. You measure the resistance from end to end, then turn the pot exactly to half its rotation and measure the resistance from the counterclockwise lug. The crosses on curves 1, 2 , and 4 show the most probable values. If the resistance is 50% of the total resistance, then the pot is linear. If you measure only 10% to 20% of the total resistance, the pot is an audio taper. If you measure 80%-90% of the total resistance, the pot is a reverse log taper.

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/potsecrets/pottaper.gif

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

repete86 -

Okay, I bought the resistors in order to start experimenting weith this project, but I'm having some problems under the hood. I can't seem to find anything that could be an IAT sensor. Is this an OBD2 thing? My car was built in '93.

Check this out :

Where is __________? (on 4th Gen Honda Accords)
http://www.mycb7.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=53
Intake Air Temperature Sensor (TA): Left rear of engine, on intake manifold

This "mycb7" website is dedicated to your Honda Accord, so I think this will be a place that you troll for all the grimey details of your 4th gen Accord.

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

LxMike -

Go for it buddy! you could market it as a mileage/performance chip for any vehicle and make millions selling on ebay!! :rolleyes: J/K!!!!!

I'm gonna see about doing this mod myself. maybe not with as low a resistance as usedgeo or diamondlarry. just to see if my car would respond to something like this.

There are already "dialing" performance mod chips on ebay. But maybe they only cover the "performance" end of the spectrum, or are (cheapy) audio pots.

Hrrrrmmmm, maybe I'll get one and perform an autopsy ;) .

EDIT : Here's one on ebay for $30 !!!:mad:!!!
88-95-96-97-98 99-04-05-06 Saturn SC/SL/SW Chip Module
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/88-95-96-97-98-99-04-05-06-Saturn-SC-SL-SW-Chip-Module_W0QQitemZ220085534858QQihZ012QQcategoryZ335 97QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

EDIT : Oh, brain fart on my part. Nowwwww I see the J/K.

CarloSW2

[usedgeo]

This mileage is just too darn good. It cannot be true. Here is an unpleasant hypothesis.

What is the chance that the ScangaugeII incorporates the IAT temperature into its fuel use calculation?

Maybe I am fooling the scangauge not the car. I am doing well on this tank but the scangauge is showing 2.1 gallons used. This is about the 5th tank of gas I have used in this car and the gauge is quite accurate. I have driven 130 miles now and the fuel gauge looks like I have used 2.5-3.0 gallons. That would be right in line with my last fill up of 46 mpg.

I won't be fueling up for a couple weeks unless I take a trip. The suspense is killing me.

Yes, I will keep you posted.

Ernie

[usedgeo]

What is the chance that the ScangaugeII incorporates the IAT temperature into its fuel use calculation?


I wrote to scangauge asking this question.

I called and a local dynamometer emission test would cost $100 minimum. I won't do that yet. I might pay for a 5 gas no load emission test, but I think I will wait a while first. 5 gas. CO, CO2, O2, HC, NOx.

There has been some discussion about Exhaust Gas Temperature comparisons. I have experience with airplanes and trucks that used such instrumentation. This is a good idea. I might by a cheap gauge for comparison purposes. I wonder if my infrared thermometer would be useful for this.

A standard catalytic converter is never going to clear up NOx. At least as far as I know.

I have come up with a really nice sounding theory for what is going on in the engine but I am going to wait until it is more clear that I really need such a theory.

If I missed a question hit me up again.

Ernie

[repete86]

repete86 -



Check this out :

Where is __________? (on 4th Gen Honda Accords)
http://www.mycb7.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=53


This "mycb7" website is dedicated to your Honda Accord, so I think this will be a place that you troll for all the grimey details of your 4th gen Accord.

CarloSW2


Nice. Thanks alot.

[LxMike]

LxMike -



There are already "dialing" performance mod chips on ebay. But maybe they only cover the "performance" end of the spectrum, or are (cheapy) audio pots.

Hrrrrmmmm, maybe I'll get one and perform an autopsy ;) .

EDIT : Here's one on ebay for $30 !!!:mad:!!!
88-95-96-97-98 99-04-05-06 Saturn SC/SL/SW Chip Module
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/88-95-96-97-98-99-04-05-06-Saturn-SC-SL-SW-Chip-Module_W0QQitemZ220085534858QQihZ012QQcategoryZ335 97QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

EDIT : Oh, brain fart on my part. Nowwwww I see the J/K.

CarloSW2


AFAIK those "performance chips" on ebay are nothing more than a resistor all dressed up to make it look like it's more than it is. you notice they have one for EVERY car out there.

[repete86]

Okay, I installed the resistor. I had some major problems, and my mileage plummeted. The car wouldn't shift lower than 3k rpm, and my check engine light is now on. I'm going to take a closer look at it tomorrow to see if I can fix it. I used a 1/2 watt 150 ohm resistor. It looks like on the cable that connects to the IAT sensor, there are three connections. One is the ground, and maybe I ran the resistor into the wrong holes, or maybe I need more than 1/2 watt.

[LxMike]

maybe your car just doesn't like that setting. resistors are cheap so you might have to try a few diff ones.

i done some checking around and have found that my iat is integrated with my mass air sensor. i found a site that shows a pot (potentiometer) installation, but i'm not into cutting wires. oh well can cross that exp off my list now.

[cfg83]

LxMike -

maybe your car just doesn't like that setting. resistors are cheap so you might have to try a few diff ones.

i done some checking around and have found that my iat is integrated with my mass air sensor. i found a site that shows a pot (potentiometer) installation, but i'm not into cutting wires. oh well can cross that exp off my list now.

That makes sense. If you picked a resistor based on the Saturn mapping, then it is probably incorrect.

Question for others : Does the behavior imply rich (super cold IAT reading) or lean (super hot) running?

I have been looking on the net, but I can't find a "1993 Honda Accord" IAT temp/resistance map of any kind. Sorry :( .

CarloSW2

[repete86]

I found one when this was first brought up a few months ago, and I remember it being very close to the Saturn one.

EDIT: on this site, SVOboy posted a graph of OBD0 temperature/resistance and it's pretty much identical to that of saturn.

http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=464

[basjoos]

If I decide to do this mod, I would get a 5K ohm audio-taper pot (Radio Shack), a 4-pole 2-throw toggle switch, a 2 sets of 2-conductor quick connectors, and a 4-conductor cable, so that I could use the pot to dial in the desired faux-temperature and use the switch to select between the pot and the IAT sensor inputs. I would mount the pot and switch on my dashboard. Leave the IAT sensor connected during startup and during the steep hillclimbing portions of my drive and switch to the pot during gentle cruising on the flats and on lesser grades.

cfg83, do a search for "TA sensor" since that is what Honda calls the IAT sensor on their engines. On my 92 Civic, it is on the side of the intake manifold.

[usedgeo]

Okay, I installed the resistor. I had some major problems, and my mileage plummeted. The car wouldn't shift lower than 3k rpm, and my check engine light is now on. I'm going to take a closer look at it tomorrow to see if I can fix it. I used a 1/2 watt 150 ohm resistor. It looks like on the cable that connects to the IAT sensor, there are three connections. One is the ground, and maybe I ran the resistor into the wrong holes, or maybe I need more than 1/2 watt.

I suspect that since it has three wires it might have a reference voltage, ground, and signal. If so this will be much harder to trick and if you get the resistor in power and ground it may get a bit hot or worse. You might want to review an electrical schematic pretty close for this one. There was a brief discussion of this last summer I found googling Honda IAT Sensor

http://www.gassavers.org/archive/index.php/IAT-Sensor-Mod-Experiment/t-149.html

Maybe this is more beneficial to a Saturn.

Ernie

[cfg83]

repete86 -

Yup, it's near identical, so you must have been in the 200's I think.

basjoos -

Sounds like you'll soon be publishing a GasSaver's product :) . Until then, here's a more primitive way of doing the same thing. Route the "outside" thermometer of an inside/outside thermometer to the location of the IAT sensor. Attach the audio-taper pot to the IAT input cable. Start the car up and use the ScanGauge to manually "match" the potentiometer to the outside temp reading. Deviate or conform to the real IAT as desired :D .

Off to troll for "TA Sensors".

usedgeo -

3 wires? Honda's too smart for me.

CarloSW2

[DRW]

basjoos wrote:"Leave the IAT sensor connected during startup and during the steep hillclimbing portions of my drive and switch to the pot during gentle cruising on the flats and on lesser grades."

I'd recomend using it to lean out the mixture slightly during startup since that's when the ecu is running very rich. Plus it's in open loop, so it's not looking at the O2 sensor until the engine temp comes up a little more, so the ecu won't try to compensate for any changes yet.

I've been doing something similar when I start my car everyday. I have an Apex SAFC air/fuel controller on my dash. I'll usually subtract about 10% fuel before starting my car in the morning, then adjust it back to normal when the O2 volts start cycling in closed loop, which usually happens when the engine coolant reaches 88*F. It starts and runs just fine.

[usedgeo]

This mileage is just too darn good. It cannot be true. Here is an unpleasant hypothesis.

What is the chance that the ScangaugeII incorporates the IAT temperature into its fuel use calculation?

Ernie

Well I put on a few extra miles and fueled up. 45.5 mpg. The faux IAT temp of 233 F had virtually no effect. It felt wonderful watching that scanguage for the first couple gallons and then I began to suspect the result I achieved. I could make several analgies to things that make one feel good or warm but produce no useful or functional effect but I will leave them off.

I wrote tech support at Scanguage. They wanted to know what I had done but offered no explanation yet. The fellow I wrote to is using a timing tricker himself.

I hooked the sensor back up and cobbled up a crude intake heater system for now.

While I was at it I blocked the throttle at 2500 rpm. I could change resistors without shutting the engine off and the only effect I got lasted less than a second. Leaving the sensor out indicated -40 F and did produce a rich surge at high rpm and set a code. Otherwise there was no effect to timing, load, or rpm.

I also hooked a rubber vacuum cleaner hose to the exhaust and experimented with large amounts of EGR. I could not find a combination that produced a lower fuel consumption than the Scangauge was showing without the EGR. It dropped RPM and to get the RPM back required more fuel. But should I trust the Scangauge for that? I am not sure I trust the Scangauge to evaluate engine mods without knowing exactly how it calculates fuel used.

One saga ends and another begins.

Ernie

[popimp]

So has anyone else tried this? The chip modules that are sold on e-bay, are these just variable resistors?

[diamondlarry]

Most of the chips on Ebay are designed to make the car think it's cold so the ECU will dump more fuel in to make more horesepower.

[popimp]

I see. So did anyone else experiment with resistors to increase FE? If so did it work? I'm thinking about trying this. What resistors should I get, ohm wise?

[fabrio]

Hi boys

this is my first starter post, but I learn this forum from more years because, unfortly my english is very, very bad .

I am'not understand completely all yours posts, but, I want to say something that the IAT sensor have effect not only in the percentual fuel mixture, but also, on the advance of spark advance.

In constant velocity, the ECU to work in closed-loop, and value of the sensor IAT, do not increase and not decrease the fuel mixture, but only increase the spark advance with more eficent combustion and mor mileage.

I hope not to have said null of new

bye

fabrio

[88HF]

Thanks for the information! Welcome to gassavers. Your English isn't that bad. What do you drive and where are you from? You can use: http://www.google.com/translate_t
to translate pages like this to your native language.

[fabrio]

my English isn't that bad?.....haha.... :)

you make me to laugh, thanks for the welcome. I am Italian, and I drive an opel tigra 1.4 liters.
My interests, is the aerodynamic and the fuel economy through electronic control like electric contolled grill blocking, and oxigen sensor signal modification, on which I am working.

ciao

fabrio

[88HF]

There are some "dialects" used here in New Orleans which are worse.

[fabrio]

to write for me, is a lot piu' simple that to read, many things escape to me also using the translator, therefore I hope, you have patience

[brucepick]

Well I put on a few extra miles and fueled up. 45.5 mpg. The faux IAT temp of 233 F had virtually no effect...

I think maybe I'm missing something here
233 deg. F would make sense (to me) for a coolant temp.
Shocking as intake air temp.
Or maybe tell the ECU the coolant is just a bit less than 233 F, so the computer doesn't think the ICE is in danger of overheating.

Instead of faking the IAT, how about a circuit to tell the ECU that coolant is warmed up to get it into closed loop sooner?

[Telco]

Scangauge takes its readings from the computer, not its own sensors. IAT would be used to calculate how much air is coming in, so the scangauge would be fooled by this. Once the car goes into closed loop, it really only looks at the O2 for a fuel/air mix. The IAT tells it air density, but that only matters on warmup. Once the O2s take over, the computer doesn't need any other inputs. The scangauge would be fooled since it takes several different readings to calculate a guess at the mileage based off an algorithm, not an actual measurement of fuel economy. Skew one number, and the answer is wrong.

Tricking the computer is never a good idea either. The computer needs to see accurate readings, or you will suffer the consequences. Those of us from the high performance world learned of this. JET Performance sells products designed to fool the computer to make more power, and their products work. For about 6 months. By then the toll has been taken, fuel economy is down the toilet and in the trap, and the engine and emissions systems start showing the damage to be had from running rich constantly.

The only way to properly alter the fuel/air mix is to install wide band O2 sensors with a computer program that can handle them, that also allows you full programmability. This, combined with an EGT gauge on each exhaust manifold (if you have a V style engine) is the proper way to make the adjustment. The resistor mod has been laughed at and derided on the hi-po side for years now as a false way to power. It will also be a false way to fuel economy.

The cats only cut NOx if the mix is around 14.8 to 1, so lean burn meams more NOx. One or the other right now. The Honda Insight (http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclopedia/encatalytic.html) has a band-aid fix for this, the cats will actually store excess NOx generated in lean burn, then switch to normal burn to convert the NOx. I'd have to wonder though, if the increase in NOx production were offset by the decrease in fuel used on a per-mile basis. If you produced more NOx per gallon burned, but less NOx per mile travelled, then you'd produce less NOx overall on a specific trip by burning lean. And, Nox production is reduced by running lean, not eliminated, so a longer plat/rhodium element might make up the difference.

[fabrio]

interesting hypothesis that one of the production for mile of Nox, but unfortunately, a vehicle, in order to march to the same speed, needs of the same power (equal fuel amount), with lean carburation or stoichiometric carburation.
And that fuel, because of the lean carburation and the high temperatures of combustion, will tie with the azzoto in marked measure regarding the same stoichiometric motor.
on purpose of IAT: this sensor, is not used from ECU only in phase of warmup, but also at full throttle, when the engine, works in open-loop (rich mixture).

ciao

fabrio

[Bill in Houston]

Nah, at lean mixtures, the engine is actually more efficient. That is why a lean mixture is desirable (for high fuel economy) in the first place.

[wireless0ne]

My Intake Air Temperature resistor EXP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intake Air Temp resistor experiments
Copied from general discussion.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I saw some postings and some mentions but not too much on IAT resistors. Almost everytthing on the net is about more power not fuel economy. I apologize if this has been beat to death years ago.

I just went for the gold. I put in the lowest resistance that the computer would accept without setting a code for Intake Air Temp out of range and compared that with a 10k resister. Here is a little range of experiments and the intake temp I see on the Scangauge. I just used the nominal values of the resistors rather than measuring them. A co-worker tried to tell me about these "chips" a year ago or so and I just totally discounted it. This is darn near the stuff of urban legends. These resistors are 99 cents for a pack of five at Radio Shack. I have never done so much so cheaply before in my life. This is on my 2001 Saturn SL.

10k ohm IAT 28 F
940 ohm IAT 198F
136 ohm IAT 233 F this is two 68 resistors in series.
068 ohm IAT 279 F set an out of range code.

I did an ABAB experiment on the same 8.5 mile loop trying to drive identically. The lights did not cooperate 100% but I judge the experiment valid. The two runs with the 10k ohms were 43.3 and 44.1 mpg. The two runs with the 136 ohms were 61.0 and 63.9 mpg. The average speeds ranged from 29-31 mph. The difference between the average mpg's is 18.75 mpg giving an increase of 43%. The 10k ohm resistor was a slight handicap as the actual temp was 40 F. It was not far off since when I filled up yesterday my tank average was 46.2 mpg and this is just a little better than the 43.7 average of the two 10k runs.

Summary
136 ohm 61.0 mpg
10k ohm 43.3 mpg
136 ohm 63.9 mpg
10k ohm 44.1 mpg

Average difference 18.75 mpg or 43% using the 10k ohm mileage as the base.

I then went out on the freeway and made a 16 mile total loop at 60 mph and got over 60 mpg without any engine off coasting. I just drove easy. I did a bit of idle coasting on the last bit coming home as I could see the average was at 59 and wanted to break 60 mpg.

This morning I did the trip to work starting with a cold engine, I did not need to go to work it is just a familiar route. Against the slight grade and more than slight wind I made 53.8 mpg to work on the freeway at 61 mph. There was no drafting. The instantaneous mileage was between 55 and 60 mpg. I never shut off the engine but reset the current trip at work and started home. I came home on secondary roads so I could drive slower and pulse and glide with the wind to my back. By the time I got to near 1/2 way home my average was 112 mpg. I then lost a bit on as the lights would not turn green until I triggered them myself in the light Sunday morning traffic. I had to get into 2nd gear at several lights. At the stop sign at one road I botched the takeoff and lost about a mile per gallon. I only mention this because the trip home averaged 99.6 mpg. Darn it all anyway. The round trip averaged 70 mpg at an average speed of 40 mph. Here is the "today" summary:
70 mpg
40 mph ave
63 max
28.7 miles

My car obviously has a sensor that tells it when I am in fifth gear. The instantaneous mileage makes a distinct jump now when I hit fifth gear. Something beyond the usual expected with a shift. I can accelerate decently on a slight upgrade at 40 mph in 5th gear and get 50-60 mpg during the acceleration. This does more than just adjust the timing. I can watch the timing and while it changes some with the resistor the change is not that great and something else is going on. Some think it leans the engine out but it is running closed loop. My current theory suggests EGR. I have run engines lean and ruined one turbo 2.3 Ford engine running it lean. This does not feel lean. Drivability is not suffering in the least. I am excessively short shifting to get into fifth gear as soon as I can because I see the immediate benefit.

The only aero mods to my car are blocking the grill and removing the spoiler. I have not even proven that removing the spoiler is a good thing.

This is pretty unbelievable. Nothing will be really confirmed until more distance passes and I have to fill up and check the calibration again on the Scangauge. Last check was within 0.5% yesterday. I hope this is for real. It sure looks that way. I suspect that the exhaust temp is probably not warm enough to keep the catalytic converters on line. Just speculation at this point.

If someone else was writing this I would not believe it either.

Ernie

can you give us the stripe configuration for the different resistances you used?

940 ohm
136 ohm=2 x 68 ohm

[usedgeo]

Please don't overlook the post where I said that the results were all instrument error. I guess you haven't. I have ordered an LC1 wide band O2 sensor and controller but have not installed them yet.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php

At true high intake temperature, above 180 F, the car appears to miss a bit during light acceleration. It still indicates closed loop so I do not have that completely explained yet. In any case the mileage is pretty good feeding the engine hot air. The plugs are pretty white but the slight miss could be from lots of EGR rather than a lean mixture. I expect the Somender gooves will have an effect on that miss and loss of torque. That project starts tomorrow :D .

68 ohms blue grey black gold. Two resistors in series for 136

470 ohms yellow violet brown gold. Two resistors in series for 940

can you give us the stripe configuration for the different resistances you used?

940 ohm
136 ohm=2 x 68 ohm

[Telco]

interesting hypothesis that one of the production for mile of Nox, but unfortunately, a vehicle, in order to march to the same speed, needs of the same power (equal fuel amount), with lean carburation or stoichiometric carburation.

Heh heh... if that were true then there's no use in trying to get better mileage. And as we all know, there are many variables that affect mileage. Running leaner than normal under cruise will net better mileage as each cylinder is burning less fuel per power stroke.

on purpose of IAT: this sensor, is not used from ECU only in phase of warmup, but also at full throttle, when the engine, works in open-loop (rich mixture).

ciao

fabrio

True, but this crowd isn't exactly WOT. I didn't think about that when I was posting. :D

[fabrio]

sorry Telco, but I am not sure to have understood well.

[fabrio]

Please don't overlook the post where I said that the results were all instrument error. I guess you haven't. I have ordered an LC1 wide band O2 sensor and controller but have not installed them yet.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php


fantastic external AFR supervisor with wide band O2 sensor ;)



At true high intake temperature, above 180 F, the car appears to miss a bit during light acceleration. It still indicates closed loop so I do not have that completely explained yet. In any case the mileage is pretty good feeding the engine hot air. The plugs are pretty white but the slight miss could be from lots of EGR rather than a lean mixture. I expect the Somender gooves will have an effect on that miss and loss of torque. That project starts tomorrow :D .

68 ohms blue grey black gold. Two resistors in series for 136

470 ohms yellow violet brown gold. Two resistors in series for 940

180°F is very high air temperature: in closed loop management, only effected an cospique retard of spark advance, for to avoid knock.
This, is the cause of loss torque in acceleration fase.

[Rick Rae]

68 ohms blue grey black gold. Two resistors in series for 136

470 ohms yellow violet brown gold. Two resistors in series for 940
Just to cover the base, for those who aren't aware:

The gold is a "tolerance band." Gold means the resistor's value can vary plus-or-minus 5%, and that's probably what's most readily available. But if the fourth band is silver, that's 10% tolerance -- good enough for the kind of stuff we're doing here. So if you come across e.g. yellow-violet-brown-silver, don't worry: It'll work okay.

There are also 20% resistors and, in the other direction, tighter tolerances down to fractions of a percent. These have a different number of bands -- 20% has no fourth band; tighter tolerances add more resolution to the resistance value before the tolerance band (and sometimes use printed values rather than color codes) -- so if you come across a resistor with "too many" or "too few" bands, that's what's going on. You're not likely to run into this accidentally though, unless you buy a "surplus bag" or "experimenter's pack"... then all bets are off as to what you might find. :p

Yes, I'm a geek. :cool:

Rick

[usedgeo]

Oddly enough my Saturn does not show an ignition retard with hot air. I hope that is not an instrumentation error too ;) . That is why I expect the stepper motor controlled EGR might be a factor. In any case it only acts up during moderate acceleration. If I go on down with the throttle it runs very well. The increased throttle could affect both mixture and EGR. I have never heard the engine ping. If it does I will need to look for the knock sensor too :D .


180°F is very high air temperature: in closed loop management, only effected an cospique retard of spark advance, for to avoid knock.
This, is the cause of loss torque in acceleration fase.

[fabrio]

Oddly enough my Saturn does not show an ignition retard with hot air. I hope that is not an instrumentation error too ;) . That is why I expect the stepper motor controlled EGR might be a factor. In any case it only acts up during moderate acceleration. If I go on down with the throttle it runs very well. The increased throttle could affect both mixture and EGR. I have never heard the engine ping. If it does I will need to look for the knock sensor too :D .

Usadego, I do not understand, as you make to see the ignition delay. Which instrument uses for this check?

[usedgeo]

Usadego, I do not understand, as you make to see the ignition delay. Which instrument uses for this check?

Scangauge II http://www.scangauge.com/

You might want one of these :) . Lots of useful information can be displayed.

It is "the must have" to get exceptional mileage.

[fabrio]

exceptional instrument usedgeo ;)

a question: during the motor erogation (rpm) the ignition time change or it is constant?

normaly, the ingnition timing change when the rpm motor change.
You use a potenziometer for change the iat value? and, witch is your procedure for control the ingnition time?

I suppose that the your verification procedure is following:
verify of ignition time when you change the IAT value at constant RPM and load....it is true?

[wireless0ne]

well i first ran a 150 ohm resistor and the car ran like hell, it is a saturn by the way, so i went in the opposite direction and installed a 1000 ohm resistor, i was going to check what the ecm is reading intake air temp wise but my scanner doesnt seem to work in the car, or the diagnostic port has no power, i'll check this weekend.

[usedgeo]

You need to browse other sections of the site when you get the time. I think aero mods are more important than tweaking with the engine. Even so I have started tweaking with the engine.

I changed resisters with the engine running at several different RPM's in neutral. There was no change that I could see. I have given up on resistors for now and am running real hot air. I am running a true 180 deg. F intake air temp when everything is working right.

I just let the computer run the timing. It varies from about 10-34 degrees depending on load and rpm. At 60 mph and 10-15% load I run around 33-34 degrees advance. It never runs more. It may retard sooner under load. I have not taken the time to map the timing with respect to load and temp. I just looked at the peak ignition advance.

exceptional instrument usedgeo ;)

a question: during the motor erogation (rpm) the ignition time change or it is constant?

normaly, the ingnition timing change when the rpm motor change.
You use a potenziometer for change the iat value? and, witch is your procedure for control the ingnition time?

I suppose that the your verification procedure is following:
verify of ignition time when you change the IAT value at constant RPM and load....it is true?

[cfg83]

Telco -

Scangauge takes its readings from the computer, not its own sensors. IAT would be used to calculate how much air is coming in, so the scangauge would be fooled by this. Once the car goes into closed loop, it really only looks at the O2 for a fuel/air mix. The IAT tells it air density, but that only matters on warmup. Once the O2s take over, the computer doesn't need any other inputs. The scangauge would be fooled since it takes several different readings to calculate a guess at the mileage based off an algorithm, not an actual measurement of fuel economy. Skew one number, and the answer is wrong.

...

This is good to know. Where did you read/hear that the Scangauge algorithm does this?

CarloSW2

[cwa]

Sorry for moving away from current thread. I have used IAT MOD for last few months, but the result is consistant. I used 220 ohm initially and I got 20% improvement during first week and then it went down. THen I swtiched over to 470 ohm , got 12% improvement during first two weeks and and it went down. I got some improvements when I reset the ECU (Taking Fuses off for 5 minutes), but I dont want to repeat it.

Has anyone have any suggestions?

[SVOboy]

What kind of car do you have? Seems like it is compensating for the changes...

[cwa]

It is Suzuki Swift 2004 Japaneese Domestic Model (1.3L, 4 Cy engine). Unfortunately it is not compatible with Scanguage so that I cannot use it. As you said it is compensating, may be advancing the timing as it has VVT engine.

[SVOboy]

The new swift is so kick butt, I've been meaning to post a picture on here for a while so everyone could marvel at the japanese wonder, but I've been forgetting.

Your car just must not like it, :p

Post pictures!

[cwa]

Picture of My SuZUKI SWIFT
http://specs.amayama.com/suzuki/swift/2002_6/photo/10604/

[SVOboy]

Oh shoot! I must be thinking of the newer model! Still pretty cool though!

[88HF]

http://www.gassavers.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=726&stc=1&d=1184669944
You must be thinking of the MK4