Honda Fit beat out by Ford FOCUS?

[Brian D.]

I'm a bit upset. My father needed to replace his '95 Taurus (v6 3.8), so he went to the Honda dealership, looked at a Fit, and then a woman pulled up to the dealership in another Fit. When he asked her how she like it, she told him "ya know...small car, don't expect a lot"...yatta yatta. But then she tells him it has these BLIND SPOTS!? He figures 'to hell with it' and gives up after seeing an $18K pricetag on the civic. So he goes to Ford & buys the Focus. DAMN! Oh well. I think he picked the Focus up ('07) cheap enough at $13,5 (with a $2500 rebate they're now giving). I know they probably get somewhat halfway decent MPG, but I just hate to think of how in 1.5 years the Focus will be worth about $3,000.

[Matt Timion]

I haven't experienced a blind spot with the Fit, but I do think it's overpriced and has lower MPG than I expected.

Unless someone wants the utility of the Fit (very versatile) I'd recommend a Toyota Yaris over the Fit.

[Bill in Houston]

If purchase price is your main driver, you will almost never find yourself driving a Honda... That said, I hope the Focus is great for your Dad.

[trebuchet03]

The woman that pulled up to the dealership.... she didn't happen to be really short did she?

[Brian D.]

not sure on the height of her; I'll have to find out. As for the price point, I'm just figuring that percentage-wise, resale of the Honda would rule over that of the Ford.

[Bill in Houston]

Well, sure. After 100k miles the Ford will be ready for scrap, and the Honda will finally be broken in...

[psyshack]

The way to beat the Fords low resale price is to drive it untill the wheels fall off. Thats also the only way to beat Hondas to high sale price. Or Yota for that matter.

I myself either drive a car untill its spent ,,, or give it to somebody that really needs a car. I never pay for resale value. IE getting my Accord way under invoice and only paying $400 over invoice for the Civic.

I could over look the nasty dash in Yaris if it sold for $9K loaded. Fact is thats about all its worth.

There was a late model Focus doing real well at the last auto-x I went to. Imbarresed the Mini's and was right on the heels of CRX's, Si's and Teg's.

psy

[Erdrick]

Fit being beaten by a Focus. That is insane. What is even more insane though, is that your DAD took advice from a WOMAN about a car. Are you sure that it was your DAD that bought the car, and not your MOM? I mean, since when did guys start listening to chicks about automobiles? Utterlay flabergasted.

Looking at my friends Focus that he had driven for a couple years, I know that I will never be getting one. I had thought about a Fit, in Japan, but gave up on the idea because of the comparitively high price. In the long run it may be worth it, but I don't plan on living in Japan forever. In the end, the Vitz/Yaris seems like the best option. Hopefully I can pick one up when I return to the states next April.

[VetteOwner]

your dad sounds like my whole family: drive it till it blows/till a repair cost is more than the value of the car/ or you dont feel comforitable taking it on long trips. all in all you might as well, unless your one of those people who need a new car every 3 years then maybe resale value will be a factor.

[MetroMPG]

I am baffled by complaints about blind spots. Do people not know how to use their mirrors?

[VetteOwner]

its not just mirrors, i know my s-10 has a bad blind spot even tho the mirrors are adjusted properly and i use them all the time.

[Gary Palmer]

its not just mirrors, i know my s-10 has a bad blind spot even tho the mirrors are adjusted properly and i use them all the time.

I have 2 inch circular blind spot mirrors mounted in the upper inside corner of the mirrors on both sides of my car. They allow me to see if someone is at the side of the car, but not quite in the mirror's. It has saved me many, many accidents. Highly recommend considering them.

[VetteOwner]

or i just look behind me since well the back window is about 6" from my face.
i plan to get different mirrors anyways so im not gonna be picky

[ELF]

Well, sure. After 100k miles the Ford will be ready for scrap, and the Honda will finally be broken in...

The focus has a very good little engine, I have a friend who has one with over 300k on it. I wouldn't be afraid to buy one, I just think there ugly, compared to the mazda3 which has the same engine.

[Bill in Houston]

Has he replaced the water pump and alternator a couple of times?

Is his interior holding up okay?

If Ford really is doing better, that is great news. Especially for Brian D's Dad...

[thisisntjared]

I haven't experienced a blind spot with the Fit, but I do think it's overpriced and has lower MPG than I expected.

Unless someone wants the utility of the Fit (very versatile) I'd recommend a Toyota Yaris over the Fit.exactly. i love the utility of the fit. nikki and i can put both of our and suite cases upright inside the car. that is the reason i favor the fit over the civic or yaris.

the focus will be worth less than the fit in a couple years because honda is built much better than ford. reliability and quality does a lot for battling depreciation.

fyi 18k is waaay to much for a fit. i bought my wifes fit sport for 17.1k out the door. that includes car, tax title, everything.

the blind spot is behind the d-pillar. i noticed it but my wife didnt, so i didnt think it was that big of a deal. definitely worth the extra few mpg.

[BeeUU]

There was a late model Focus doing real well at the last auto-x I went to. Imbarresed the Mini's and was right on the heels of CRX's, Si's and Teg's.

psy

True
In our region there are a couple of them that do well.

If you get the base 2 door with the 2.3 liter(torque baby), they are good autox'ers. Add decent shocks and tires and you have a competitive car.

A friend of mine spent months looking for a used one and came up empty. He bought a new Mazda 3, base 2 door with the 2.3/5-speed. It has the improved focus(european)/Mazda 3&5/Volvo 30-40-50 platform. He loves it.

[brucepick]

We've been driving ours till the wheels fall off.
The thing is, with old Volvo's that usually means till somewere around 400K miles, so you better like the car! (My first one went to 380K before I gave it to teenagers to add to their, um, driving experience).

[psyshack]

I don't know what it is with Fit here. They are selling. But its no where close to Civic or Accord. Yaris is going to be the new beetle or model T. Yaris has been out for far less time than Fit,,, And they are everywhere. Its like Fit doesn't have a place. Honda should have put a R-18 in it and called it Civic Wagon.

One of my daughters is now back in the new car market. She is putting a lot of miles on her old chevy. Ive took her to look at Fit. Showed her about the seats and such. She drove it and complained about the lack of drivers room. We both agreed we were more comphy in the old Festiva. Its like Fit had no elbow room. It was a red one. She then blurted out it looked like after birth on wheels. The salesman heard that and walked away. I guess she got her point across.

We both like Yaris.... I want one bad. But we both agree,,, the cyclops pod just dosent work for either of us. It reminded her of the cartoon in some of my old car mags..... LMAO. I didnt know she ever read them... :)

She loves my Civic. But it truly does cost to much for her. She is very thrifty and frugal. She doesn't see 16k to 20k dollars worth of car or engineering in it. And fact is I have to agree. Hondas are way over priced.

This weekend we are going to go look at Cobalt, Focus and Saturn. Have to get that out of her system. Then go look at the Korean offerings. I would like to see her land a deal on a striper I4 Sonata myself.

[thisisntjared]

i think i am going to start a yaris vs fit thread.

its clear that the fit was not beat out by the focus. only one person purchased a focus over a fit.

[Lickitung]

We both like Yaris.... I want one bad. But we both agree,,, the cyclops pod just dosent work for either of us. It reminded her of the cartoon in some of my old car mags..... LMAO. I didnt know she ever read them... :)

She loves my Civic. But it truly does cost to much for her. She is very thrifty and frugal. She doesn't see 16k to 20k dollars worth of car or engineering in it. And fact is I have to agree. Hondas are way over priced.


Your daughter sounds a lot like me. I'm known for being frugal and just couldn't understand paying 16-20K on a car when something that was much cheaper would still get me where I need to go.

If the center mounting is the only thing keeping her from the Yaris I would have her drive it again. At first it bugged me and almost kept me from buying my Yaris, however it only took a short period of time for me to get used to it. Now I like having everything in the center, I find it easy just glancing to the side to look at the speedometer.

[smw]

I haven't experienced a blind spot with the Fit, but I do think it's overpriced and has lower MPG than I expected.

Unless someone wants the utility of the Fit (very versatile) I'd recommend a Toyota Yaris over the Fit.
---
If you're not getting the mpg you expected, you're driving it wrong -- I'm getting 37 mpg/city with some very modest hypermiling techniques. I'm flabbergasted at the "official" mpg numbers -- I suspect there's some hankypanky going on.

Unless you're driving automatic? I'm talking stick, of course.

[thisisntjared]

we were expecting the fit to respond well to hypermiling techniques and with 0 modifications we were hoping to get well over 40mpg regularly. keep in mind the thread you are responding to is over a year old and expectations were based off old epa estimates.

[suspendedhatch]

I share the "drive it until it blows up" mentality except that I buy 15 year old Hondas and they never blow up. They never even fail smog. My g/f had a Ford when I first met her. Needless to say, she now has a Civic. She gave the Ford (ZX1) to her dad. The tranny went bad. He had it fixed; then it went bad again. Only thing I do to her Civic is change the oil and the brakes.

[Jay2TheRescue]

LOL, that sounds like me, "Drive em' till the doors fall off". The funny thing is I have actually had doors fall off before. I've had doors fall off on the 81 AMC Spirit, and on the 81 Buick Regal. What happens is that the doors are so huge and heavy that there is a large load on the hinges, and the hinge bushings wear out, then the hinge pin drops out. I fixed it a couple of times, then I got tired of doing that so I got 1 size bigger bushing and hingepin and have had no further problems in the Buick. The AMC's door was wobbily again by the time we sold it, but figured it was someone else's problem. I can remember when dad & I took the door off of the AMC the 2 of us could barely lift & carry that door.

My 74 Chevy pickup with well over 300,000 miles had another problem. After about 20 years of door slamming the nader pin broke off with about an inch of the surrounding metal. I figure it was stress cracks in the metal from age. I mounted the Nader pin onto a 4" x 4" x 1/4" steel plate, and placed it behind the broken panel. I then bolted it down with like 15 or 20 small bolts. Never had a problem with that again either.

[lowbridescape]

Well, sure. After 100k miles the Ford will be ready for scrap, and the Honda will finally be broken in...

What is the basis of this kind of prejudice? My 2001 Escape is the first Ford I've had. At 104,000 miles, there's a little rattle in the front that might be a strut issue. I'll take that over my co-worker who got to buy a new transmission for his Honda Odyssey. Except for the fact that it's chronically dirty because I don't wash it regularly, it's not that different from when I got it. My 12 year old, 145,000 mile Caravan is showing signs of rust cancer and if I don't treat it, it will probably reach its economic service life limit (defined as I'm tired of trying to fix it) in five or so years. I have nothing to base an economic service life limit forecast on the Escape because there's no degradation to track. When you don't sell them, resale value is irrelevant.

[Jay2TheRescue]

I'm at a similar point with my 98 GMC truck. It's 10 years old, over 150,000 miles and absolutely nothing is wrong with it, aside from a dent where one of my employees backed into it, and there is some rust starting on the rear bumper. (And I too am conducting a scientific dirt test - Hasn't been washed since the dealer washed it a few months ago) I just had it in the dealer for the 150,000 mile service this past spring and told them I was thinking about a newer model. The mechanic who worked on it told me afterwards that it still runs just like it did when it was new. He did not find any hint of problems starting. I figure that I will have that truck for many years to come. I figure within the next couple of years I will buy a new(er) DD, and give the Beast "beater" status. When I buy a new DD it will be a hard decision. I would like something that will get good mileage, but comfort is a must. I'm 6' 4" and I will require something that has ample legroom and headroom. I'm partial to GM & American vehicles, but I'm not impressed with their offerings for a smaller vehicle. I guess I could get a Cavalier, but still I am not impressed. Dad's new Focus is a neat little car, but the seats are kinda hard. I may just get a late model Lesabre, Park Avenue, or Grand Marquis. Any one of these will supply me with the comfort & legroom I require, and all should do over 30 on the highway. Probably even better with some aero mods and LRR tires. I was on Buick's website this morning and I was not impressed with their current offerings, and did not see any small car. I guess when they dropped the Century/Regal lines they did not pick up another small car and they are only selling midsize and larger vehicles now. I can remember in the 80's my grandmother had a Buick Skyhawk. For a gussied up Cavalier that was nice, comfortable little car.

Some of the Hyundais out there are nice looking cars, and maybe their quality has improved, but I still have the memory of seeing many people I knew driving Hyundai Excel's in the 80's and 90's have them die before they ever reached 100,000 miles. Then again, the Kia Amanti is also a nice looking little car, but I've never ridden in one so the jury is still out on that. I guess I'll worry about what to get when that time comes.

-Jay

[YarisDude]

Your daughter sounds a lot like me. I'm known for being frugal and just couldn't understand paying 16-20K on a car when something that was much cheaper would still get me where I need to go.

If the center mounting is the only thing keeping her from the Yaris I would have her drive it again. At first it bugged me and almost kept me from buying my Yaris, however it only took a short period of time for me to get used to it. Now I like having everything in the center, I find it easy just glancing to the side to look at the speedometer.

I had the same concern...for about 1 hour. You will get used to it. I installed my ScanGauge in the area where normally the instrument cluster is placed. Of course you setup your SG to read MPH & RPM if you want.

[Dalez0r]

I have a problem with paying over $10,000 for a new car that will lose 2/3's of it's value in a couple of years. However, my $1000 1990 Accord at 200k seems to be doing alright so far.

I also hate how bloated and big previously small cars have gotten (cough CIVIC cough). I think I just like early 90's cars...

Gimma a CRX with a freshly rebuilt VX drivetrain and I bet I can drive it reliably for 10 more years! :D

[Mr. Pig]

Personally, I'd pick a Focus over a Fit as well. :thumbup:

[GasUser]

I'm at a similar point with my 98 GMC truck. It's 10 years old, over 150,000 miles and absolutely nothing is wrong with it,
-Jay
My Son has my GMC truck. Just went to 200,000 miles. Runs fine, no leaks, just did the normal maintenance on it.

To OP......Anyway, I do not like the fit or focus. Not saying they are bad, but just my personal taste in looks only. I hope your Dad likes the focus and it serves his purposes. It should also get decent gas mileage.

[thisisntjared]

this thread is ancient. let the thread die.

[theholycow]

Continuing to bump this historic thread...

I'm at a similar point with my 98 GMC truck. It's 10 years old, over 150,000 miles and absolutely nothing is wrong with it

I'll throw my hat in the ring. 2002 GMC, 175,000 miles, only problem is a front end rattle that I think is probably a worn control arm...and I do abuse the front end.

My scientific dirt test has been going on for over a year, and was at least a year old last time.

When I buy a new DD it will be a hard decision. I would like something that will get good mileage, but comfort is a must. I'm 6' 4" and I will require something that has ample legroom and headroom.

I can't help but recommend a VW for that concern. I'm not as tall as you but I share many of the same comfort requirements, and was very surprised when I sat in a VW.

I'm partial to GM & American vehicles, but I'm not impressed with their offerings for a smaller vehicle.

The new Camaro V6 will start somewhere around 22k or 23k, and be EPA rated 28mpg highway with the base model 6 speed manual; any of us will get over 30mpg combined with it. I won't be able to buy a new car for a long time, I think, but if I can get it I'll probably give it some taller gears...it's got a lot of torque at low RPM, with a very flat torque chart.

It's a lot bigger than past Camaros, and there ought to be a decent amount of room.

Some of the Hyundais out there are nice looking cars, and maybe their quality has improved

It has definitely improved a lot. They learned their lesson with those Excels, just like your friends did. That new Genesis coupe is going to be good competition for the new Camaro, and will be available with a 4 banger too.

Then again, the Kia Amanti is also a nice looking little car, but I've never ridden in one so the jury is still out on that.

I still have my doubts about Kia, even though I think Hyundai bought them out.

Don't forget the Chevy Volt...expensive purchase but cheap to fuel for an average commute.

[JoeBob]

LOL, that sounds like me, "Drive em' till the doors fall off". ...

My 74 Chevy pickup with well over 300,000 miles had another problem. After about 20 years of door slamming the nader pin broke off with about an inch of the surrounding metal. I figure it was stress cracks in the metal from age. I mounted the Nader pin onto a 4" x 4" x 1/4" steel plate, and placed it behind the broken panel. I then bolted it down with like 15 or 20 small bolts. Never had a problem with that again either.

What is a "nader pin"? (Always thought it was a hold I would have to have had used on Ralph Nader to keep him in the back seat of my Corvair...)

[Jim T.]

Well, sure. After 100k miles the Ford will be ready for scrap, and the Honda will finally be broken in...
hmm... so I guess all the 150k+ Ford Contours out there are fluks?
I paid $16.2k for mine in 2000. I sold it in 2008 with 168k on it for $2.8k. :)

And it didn't look like a jelly bean!:p

Jim T.

[RoadWarrior]

The tempo we had in the family went to 220,000 before Lucas Transmission Fix wouldn't help the tranny any more. (and that got the last 60,000 out of it) actually think it was a mechanic buggered up something with the linkage when he put a new neutral safety switch in it and it would have gone on a bit longer.

Wile-E was just over 200,000 when the head gasket went, and the bores are beautiful.

As far as I'm concerned, "Import reliability" is a myth, it's all in the maintenance, and honda's have historically had a more aggressive/proactive maintenance schedule, and owners that keep it out of fear (I don't want it to go wrong and have to wait for $$$ parts from Japan...) and smaller domestics have historically suffered from "throwaway car syndrome" from their owners. There's been some notoriously unreliable motors, dieing from sludge etc, but in the main, engines since the mid 80s have been very long lived when looked after.

A further issue with domestics is that mechanics just assume they know how to fix them, so if a domestic manufacturer introduces some new or different tech, Billyjoebob is just gonna barge in and screw it up, whereas he might actually think to look up procedures, specs, recommended fluids etc for a Toyota or Honda. Take a look at the infamous Ultradrive A604 from Chrysler, weaknesses in original design? yes. Probability that transmission shops and mechanics unfamiliar with it will do something that causes certain failure? 90% usually by insisting that regular ATF or a "Universal" ATF will work fine. No, it needs a Chrysler 7106 spec fluid, ATF +3 originally, now upgraded to ATF +4, it always has done, and it's always been in the specs. There was a chance that in extreme conditions the tranny would overheat and melt stuff, putting the wrong fluid in makes it a certainty. Programming upgrades try to avoid undue slippage and stress nowadays, but you can still wreck them with the wrong fluid. So it's infamy really derives from 10% marginal design and 90% pigheaded stupidity of people that serviced them.

Then you get the dinosaurs who "only fix domestics" and you take your front wheel drive Ford, GM, or Chrysler to them for front wheel bearings, and again 2 weeks later, and again 2 weeks later, and again 2 weeks later... and finally discover that they haven't got a freaking clue that FWDs usually need anywhere from 150-200ftlb torque preload on the bearings and have been doing them to 27-30ftlb as if they were circa 1970 RWD front or back hubs. And then you get "I've been in this business for 30 years and I've never heard...."

Or as a relative has done, you take your Ford Contour in for a cooling system flush and you ask them if they are going to use the Ford recommended antifreeze for mixed metal cooling systems to avoid corrosion issues.... and you get it back.... and they haven't, so you waste Sunday afternoon with the hosepipe doing it yourself anyway....

So if you wanna find out exactly how reliable Hondas are, take one to a "domestics only" mechanic and tell him it's a re-badged Chevrolet.

So anyway, Focuses in particular I think are a somewhat decent car, and should be capable of very high service miles if well looked after, do the transmission services on the severe service schedule though (For pete's sake Ford, you should know by now that ATF doesn't last forever) Used, you'd want to avoid the early years, teething troubles. They seem to hold value reasonably well up here compared to other Fords, 3 yo off lease ones were on the forecourts at around $8,000 in the spring here, before the rise in price of 4 cyl cars in general.

[Jay2TheRescue]

The nader pin is the post on the B pillar (front seat) or C pillar (back seat) that the door latches onto. It is named after Ralph Nader, and had to do with the Corvair. In the fire & rescue community we call that the Nader Pin.

And one quick note on Ralph Nader... I don't remember who said this, but I think it is a good quote... "Corvairs are good cars despite Raph Nader, and cheap because of Ralph Nader."
-Jay

[dkjones96]

I'd take the Focus too! It's not a bad little car I just wish it had a better stereo! I'm all about the price I can talk the dealer into that is under MSRP. I've gotten them to 21k on a Mustang GT Premium and 13.5K for a fully loaded Focus, I'm about to take that one.

The prices I've been able to talk the Kia dealers down to on fully loaded Optimas is making me look at those though. 19k with leather, sunroof, navigation, upgraded sound, power everything, V6. If I could talk the Honda dealer down to that I'd get a loaded Civic, but I can't, so forget it.

[Greyg]

I'm with you RW, take care of whatever you buy and it will last, doesn't matter what brand.

[thornburg]

I'm with you RW, take care of whatever you buy and it will last, doesn't matter what brand.

That is largely true, and preventative maintenance can make a world of difference, but some of the old saws are true.

Example: VWs have electrical problems. I was an active member of a VW forum for a while, and nearly all of us had some electrical problem at one point or another. Are there people with VWs with no electrical problems? Sure, plenty of them. However, I firmly believe that VWs have substantially higher than average instance of electrical issues. And what preventative maintenance can you do to prevent electrical problems? (You can clean the battery terminals and check the ground points, but even people who do that on a regular basis have electrical problems on VWs).

So the key is to figure out what works for you, then treat it right.

[R.I.D.E.]

My friends body shop rebuilds Focii. 03 ZX3 with 56 k miles for $4500, hard to beat that.

regards
gary

[Greyg]

Shifter cables have a 5 to 7 year life in Daytonas. Replaced them in both that I've had.

That's a pretty good buy R.I.D.E.