Electric conversion: Project ForkenSwiift

[MetroMPG]

People keep asking me how much it costs to drive (recharge) the ForkenSwift. So without further ado...

After 20+ km of driving, the pack takes about 24 hours to recharge, using the slow, "semi-smart" (voltage sensing, auto shut-off) 24vdc/10A charger. That's splitting the pack, 12 hours on the back 4 batts, then 12 hrs on the front 4.

Yes, 10A is that slow.

3.6 amps (24v charger) at 120 volts AC =
432 watts total

24 hours per charge for 25 km
10368 watt hours per charge

@ 6 cents per kwh (standard Ontario energy mix rate - Ivan's house)

0.62208 $ per charge
25 km/charge
0.024883 $ per km
2.5 cents/km

@ 9 cents per kwh (100% renewable energy rate - my house)

0.93312 $ per charge
25 km/charge
0.037325 $ per km
3.7 cents/km

Compare to gasoline cost for the Blackfly @ 75 mpg (US) & $1 / L ...

3.14 L/100 km (3.14 = 75 mpg (US))
0.0314 L/km
1 $/L
0.0314 $/km
3.1 cents/km

[SVOboy]

Nice price write up! Make ivan get the same power you have now...

[MetroMPG]

Just realized I can calculate the car's energy efficiency from these figures...

(10368 wh / 25 km) / 1.61 km/mi = 257.59 wh/mile

And that's based on charging. Discount the charging inefficiencies (as I believe is standard practice in talking about wh/mi), and it's better than that. I'm not sure what the charging efficiency is though.

[MetroMPG]

Soon there will be no more 48v cables

[SVOboy]

You're crazy, you know that?

[MetroMPG]

Spent some more time on things this weekend

[MetroMPG]

Oh, and trebuchet - I was talking to someone last week who made an electric outboard (DC with lithium) and experienced controller failure (overheated it) ... it failed fully on.

[DaX]

Oh, and trebuchet - I was talking to someone last week who made an electric outboard (DC with lithium) and experienced controller failure (overheated it) ... it failed fully on.

:eek:

[MetroMPG]

I think the single task I've spent the longest on so far is this

[MetroMPG]

Whee! I guess I just won this

[BigMouse]

Whee! I guess I just won this DC-DC converter :)
$25, incl. shipping via "best offer" bid.

Score! Now take it apart and reverse engineer it for us :-p

[MetroMPG]

I took the car in to the mechanic today

[MetroMPG]

I tried.

[lemmiwinks]

Thanks for the soldered lug tutorial and other updates :D

BTW, although controller failures are uncommon, they do happen. I've seen an example of an early model Altrax controller that failed while coupled to an Etek. The MOSFETs shorted which = full power from the batteries to the motor. Also someone on another EV forum I'm a member of was injured when their controller failed WOT and they crashed.

A neat place for your second/disconnect contactor would be wired into the brake circuit. What happens when things go bad? You go for the brakes! My EVT 168 (http://www.evt.com.tw/html/product_evt/english/index.htm#2) electric scooter has a brake cutout where if the brakes are activated while the throttle is open the controller cuts out and doesn't restore power for two seconds after the brake is released.

[MetroMPG]

On the issue of DIY soldered cable ends...

[trebuchet03]

Oh, and trebuchet - I was talking to someone last week who made an electric outboard (DC with lithium) and experienced controller failure (overheated it) ... it failed fully on.

So it sounds like it happens infrequently enough that it's important enough that you shouldn't not have a fail safe* :D

Sorry for my laggy responses - it's just more fun to read this thread infrequently - it makes progress look much more progressive and exciting :p

I'm probably reinforcing the stereotypical impression that EV's are necessarily weak & slow.

Have you done anything like a 0-100km/h test?




*I relish the occasional double negative :thumbup:

[SVOboy]

Can it go 100kmh?

[MetroMPG]

Nope - it's weak and slow. :D

[MetroMPG]

On the plus side, they gave me a great rate on insurance for the Blackfly, so I switched it over to them :)

[2TonJellyBean]

That really sucks to get hung up on insurance...

Metro, if I make my way to the big B for a few hours this long weekend is there any chance I could see the EV? A friend lives there and I may pop up from a Picton turkey fest and see him.

[MetroMPG]

Sure, come on by. We'll go for a spin around the block.

But you're not confusing it with Belleville are you?? Belleville's the one that's closer to Picton, and I used to mix up the two Bville towns all the time (before I moved here).

I'm going to be out all Saturday afternoon/evening, but should be around the rest of the time. Send me a PM if you're coming and we'll work out the other details there.

[SVOboy]

You'll get it all figured out, you're the coolest person alive, :)

[Gearshredder]

amazing stuff ya got here and inspired me to make my own electric car. What makes it even easier for me, ive got a neighbor who has his array of 6v trojan batteries, being amazingly old, i could still get somewhere with them. :)

I had a question though, have you ever thought about reconditioning the batteries, using a desulphator, or pulsing circuit? My neighbor has had his batteries for 9+ years now and some of them are still enough to be considered usable.
And have you also removed the flywheel on your transmission?

[MetroMPG]

Hi Gearshredder... glad to hear someone else is taking the plunge. Start a conversion thread!

I had a question though, have you ever thought about reconditioning the batteries, using a desulphator, or pulsing circuit?

I'm not sold on the concept, and honestly not knowledgeable enough to make my own decision on whether the theory behind it is valid or not. It's come up many times on the EV discussion list, and some of the smartest people there insist that nobody has empirically shown that they make any difference.

And have you also removed the flywheel on your transmission?Yes, it's removed. No clutch or flywheel. Shifting via rev matching & using the synchros. It works fine once you figure it out. The drawbacks are: 1) lack of a mechanical disconnect (safety feature); 2) you can't shift as quickly as when you use a clutch.

[skewbe]

Very Cool!!!

Re insurance: I don't know that they would specifically ask you if you gutted it and put in a electric motor and batteries, might be a canada thing. In the states you would just say "I have a 98 metro, vin ..., I want liability only, here's my money". You might have some issues if there is an accident, but it will get you to legal status anyway.

[2TonJellyBean]

What about companies that specialize in motorcycle insurance? They might know who you could call.

http://www.kingsway-general.com/KGWeb/

[Gearshredder]

Yay! 0 cylinders! lol, after you've got insurance its legal eh? then next, get to the small stuff, i.e climate control :D

now on the battery reconditioning, ill be getting my batts from my neighbor as soon as my dad sells his car and we look for a good electric candidate. At that time, ill be reconditioning those batteries once I've got them and ill record the results. (seems reconditioning already worked as he has been doing it since he got them used at 5 years, now they being 9+ years old, they usually last only 5) He hasn't pulled them off the solar panel grid he has in his house so he hasn't been able to fully work on them.(some of them are bulging because of sulphation) After that time, if it works, ill let you know and give you the site. I also might try the bedini sg motor (if you havent heard of it, it was a "free energy" project, which turned out to be untrue for most, some make claims of it working, BUT it is supposively a very good battery reconditioner) :D

Ill start a conversion thread after my dad sells his car -->( 1987 944 porche) Hes been trying to sell it WAY before i wanted to start an electric car project so i cant be blamed for getting rid of it (too expensive upkeep and insurance, being a Porche)

[MetroMPG]

You might have some issues if there is an accident, but it will get you to legal status anyway.

Yeah, I was considering

[Gearshredder]

hey, the climate control was just an example ;)

[MetroMPG]

Yeah, I know. There are still a pile of things that need doing.

But other than a controller

[2TonJellyBean]

Thanks. I called a Kingsway broker today and gave them the info - still waiting to hear back. Interestingly, 1) they didn't seem fazed by the request, and, 2) they didn't specifically ask who did the conversion - first company not to specifically ask that. As a specialty vehicle insurer, they probably just assume I did it.

BTW - nice to meet you and your son on the weekend. Hope you had an efficient drive home, and had somewhat more than 9.1 peak kW (12 hp) on tap! :) (that's 190 amps @ 48v nominal - is that what we saw? I should have written it down.)


It was a fun ride/drive! My son was very impressed. I forgot to tell my better half that he wasn't in a booster seat and was in an uninsured vehicle as we hit 195+ going uphill! :eek: hehe

I noticed 200 or a needle width less on the first ascent and it did hit 195+ when we looped around to confirm that. Close enough...

Thanks!

[MetroMPG]

Not a problem. 195+ uphill - that's funny.

[2TonJellyBean]

I was hoping/figuring they'd know who you should call... good stuff.

In terms of power 12 hp isn't bad, but I'd almost consider that as what you need per person, and in that regard perhaps consider the Swift as something along the lines of a 2, 3 or 4 seater. With 400 amps and 72 volts, you'd have a 36 hp very green solution for my daily commute. I'll even clean the garage out for it! ;)

I ride a 10 car commuter train that holds 1200 people and the locomotive has about 5000 hp. That's 12 hp per person. It's gets up to 85 mph/140 kph pretty quick, but unfortunately has to rely upon massive disk brakes instead of regen, and I worry about commuter train asbestiosis - who know what's in those pads? Back to motive power though, most scooters with around 12 hp seem to work quite well.

It's funny when I think about the 9.1 KW peak energy. At 3413 BTUs per kWh, that rate of heat (30,000 BTUs) would make a good water heater (double the recovery of a normal electric water heater), keep a mid-sized normally insulated Canadian home warm in all but the coldest of weather or heat an outdoor BBQ grill.

[Snax]

I am increasingly starting to believe that a lower voltage system is going to be the way to go with my conversion. Although I don't want to fart around with a mess of used parts, just limiting the system to 72 volts cuts costs dramatically. I figure the entire conversion including adapters and accessory electronics could all be done for $2500-$3000 using all new parts. And that would provide a top speed of around 40-45 in my MR2 (which is all I need).

Hunting up a used motor and other accessories could cut that by half or more.

[skewbe]

I'm really hoping you have good news today, metrompg.

An aside, this guy is claiming 50mph on a 36v metro, on a 6HP (at 48v) Forklift Motor, does that sound likely?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260166974714

[trebuchet03]

Yeah, I was considering just not telling them (or lying), but the potential consequences and the thought of dealing with the ins. co. in that situation isn't very appealing. It would be a last case option.

Yeah, the last thing you want is to get in an accident - the insurance company takes a look and says "Sorry, your insurance policy doesn't match this car."

I mean, I4 to a v6 engine - you theoretically could claim ignorance "Isn't that the "v4 engine or something? I don't know much about cars" - but that might not work :/

[MetroMPG]

(Be back later to reply to posts above...)

[SVOboy]

Yay!

*handsyouaprize*

[MetroMPG]

Just got back from an errand run.

[MetroMPG]

Found it skewbe: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Geo-METRO-ELECTRIC-1991-GEO-METRO-ELECTRIC-PROJET-VEHICLE-EV_W0QQitemZ300116665100QQihZ020QQcategoryZ6242QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Same car sold in July for $1k as a "fixxer upper".

[skewbe]

Very cool, can't wait for some real world stats (0-30 times, top speed, range, etc).

So where is the garage entry already? ;)

P.S. what is downshifting like without a clutch (spinning the motor up on the synchros?) or do you not do much shifting or hows that work?

[MetroMPG]

Right... garage entry! I should get on that.

What formula will I use for MPG equivalent though? There are 33,557 watt hours in a gallon of gas, and the FS pack theoretically (when new) holds 48v*220AH (I think) = 10,560 watt hours (less than 1/3 of a gallon of gas, equivalent energy!)

Problem is, I don't have a killawatt meter, so I don't know exactly how much I'm putting back into the pack when I recharge. Suggestions? I can estimate SOC from pack voltage... but that's kind of like estimating MPG based on where you gas gauge was before topping up.

[MetroMPG]

Whoops missed this:

P.S. what is downshifting like without a clutch (spinning the motor up on the synchros?) or do you not do much shifting or hows that work?

[skewbe]

I gotcha on the shifting.

re monitoring efficiency: I had this whole DIY Kill-a-Watt thing typed out, then went to ebay and searched for "Kill A Watt" and the dang things are $22 shipped, LOL. 15 amps max, don't know what a car charger needs.

[MetroMPG]

Hrm. One of the chargers is 20A, the other is 5A. So if I feel like waiting 24h to recharge the car using the 5A unit, I could measure it.

EDIT: wait a minute... it charges at 20A DC. 110v AC amperage will be less.

I should get a killawatt anyway...

[SVOboy]

Get it, sucka!

[MetroMPG]

Otay, Panky!

[trebuchet03]

Right... garage entry! I should get on that.

What formula will I use for MPG equivalent though? There are 33,557 watt hours in a gallon of gas, and the FS pack theoretically (when new) holds 48v*220AH (I think) = 10,560 watt hours (less than 1/3 of a gallon of gas, equivalent energy!)

Problem is, I don't have a killawatt meter, so I don't know exactly how much I'm putting back into the pack when I recharge. Suggestions? I can estimate SOC from pack voltage... but that's kind of like estimating MPG based on where you gas gauge was before topping up.


If you don't have a killawatt or other way to measure current draw.... Turn off/unplug everything in your house except for your charger and check out the power meter -- measure how much power it's using....

Hrmm... that only works if you know how long the charger is running....
------
Do those cheap multimeters do AC current for any appreciable current?

-----
As for gas equivalent....see if you can figure out how wrightspeed calculated the equivalent mpg - his EV gets 170mpg eq. :D
http://www.wrightspeed.com/

Doing a google search yields all sorts of results.... Some are based on energy content, others are on emissions equivalent...

From the wiki entry on battery EV's -- but that section is tagged as not having a source
BEV operating costs can be directly compared to the equivalent operating costs of a gasoline-powered vehicle. A gallon of gasoline contains about 36.4 kWh of energy. To calculate the cost of the electrical equivalent of a gallon of gasoline, multiply the utility cost per kWh by 36.4. To calculate the equivalent mileage of a BEV, divide 36.4 kWh/gal by the energy efficiency in kWh/mile, to get the equivalent miles per gallon. For example, if a BEV owner's electricity rate is $0.10 per kWh, and the BEV gets 0.20 kWh/mile, then the owner is paying the equivalent of $3.64 per gallon of gasoline, and getting the equivalent of 182 miles per gallon.

:confused:

Yet again, another post that looks like I'm playing darts... I'm all over the place :p

[rh77]

:thumbup: Congrats! ...really glad to hear that it worked out. :)

RH77

[MetroMPG]

Thanks, Rick!

---

[SVOboy]

Go for 72v and kick some ***.

Have you nagged your local press to give you props yet? You could become the mascot for all sorts of dorks and nerds wanting to use less fuel.

[MetroMPG]

Nah

[SVOboy]

But don't you want to help others see the light? Don't you feel and ethical obligation to help others? *jabswithastick*

[2TonJellyBean]

Metro, your EV story done locally could offset that lead pipe story earlier this year.

[MetroMPG]

Lead pipe story??

[SVOboy]

Add the batts! The story about people stealing pipes in canada.

[MetroMPG]

Said he drove around

[MetroMPG]

Drove up to the city waste

[2TonJellyBean]

That's about what you figured at 48 volts. Was that measured with or without the extra batteries?

[MetroMPG]

Yep, pretty close. I figured about 100 lbs lighter.

[MetroMPG]

Just learned that the provincial sales tax paid on items bought for an EV

[SVOboy]

It funny how 650 CDN is now more than 650 USD, :D, I remember when I was a kid...

[rh77]

It funny how 650 CDN is now more than 650 USD, :D, I remember when I was a kid...

Same here. Even not so long ago.

Congrats on our Dollar tanking!

RH77

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Blegh, parts from Europe aren't nearly as much of a deal as they used to be. :(

[MetroMPG]

I have to say I've spent a little more time hunting for US stuff on eBay than I used to.

[MetroMPG]

Today... skooled by the EV masters was I.

[2TonJellyBean]

So all you need now is a new gearbox.

1st 10:1 for the first 2 meters...
2nd 3:1
3rd direct
4th 0.5:1

good luck finding it ;)

Very interesting...

[MetroMPG]

Got my Killawatt equivalent on the weekend.

Good thing too

[MetroMPG]

The car's energy efficiency from the above figures...

[SVOboy]

:thumbup: big time

[MetroMPG]

For comparison: Tesla recenty did the EPA test cycles for the roadster. In city driving, it's rated for 300 wh/mile (also based on energy usage at the charger). :)

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog4/

http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/performance2.jpg?width=300
VP1 undergoes range testing on the dynamometer

[skewbe]

127 wh/mile doesn't seem too awful by comparison to 300. It would be like a 20mpg car compared to a 45mpg car, sort of.

Very cool all the same, the forken that is. Do you think the tesla can be hyperwatted? 10kwh/day seems a bit much. Is it as simple as crawling to minimize battery losses?

[MetroMPG]

The Tesla is undoubtedly far more efficient battery-to-wheels

[MetroMPG]

No more fiddling with spreasheets past my bed time.

[SVOboy]

Haha, wow! That's a pretty big oops right there...

At least your still on par with the professionals...:)

[omgwtfbyobbq]

FS is 331 wh/mi, not 127.

Drat, Tesla wins, even with me driving 20 km/h.

No more fiddling with spreasheets past my bed time.If ya had li-ions you'd be at 231Wh/mile and given that the Tesla's charger is such a hog, they're likely more than 127Wh/mile from the plug. Just sayin...

Here's some more from GCC (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/09/tesla-announces.html)
Henrik,

Click "Where the Rubber Meets the Road" above and scroll down to the section on Range Testing. They show recharge energy of 31 kWh/100 miles for combined cycle. That's at the wall plug, not the battery. As you note, the car only needs a little over 200 Wh/mile from the battery. This means 1/3rd of the wall plug energy is lost in the charging process. Tesla's well-to-wheel white papers claim 90 or 95% charging efficiency instead of the 65-70% implied by this data. That's a huge gap.

Ok I get it. That is an interesting observation. Wonder what went wrong. Lithium batteries should have very high charging efficiency near 100% according to http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm. So the problem must be the charging transformer. As far as I remember they often lose a lot of energy possibly 30% but it is possible to buy some that loose very little energy. Maybe they have chosen a model that is cheaper and perhaps lighter but that waste more energy in the conversion. Most people will never notice such a change anyway but you do. Plus electricity is still very cheap compared to gasoline so the economics is still ok and the people that can afford a Tesla will not care about the economics of driving anyway.

Remember that the EPA tests that tesla ran now include running the air conditioner. The california sun beating down through the windows, and on a dark green roof will require alot of air conditioner power to keep temperate. That could explaine alot of the difference between the 216 WH/mile that they got when actually commuting (probably with the top down), and the 310 WH/mile they got while running the EPA designed tests (top up, air on).

Coalburner, the problem with your theory is they show 245 mile range on the combined test.Even if they used all 53 kWh in the battery pack that only comes out to 216 Wh/mile. The diff between 310 and 216 is apparently charging efficiency. It's a really horrible result, hopefully caused by a really inefficient non-production charger. If not Tesla needs to completely re-do their well-to-wheels white papers.

Update, Tesla deleted my question but in response to another message said the difference between 216 and 310 Wh/mile was due to charging inefficiency, including the need to run a cooling system to keep the batteries cool during charging!

Somehow I doubt they'll update their well-to-wheels paper or stop making their ridiculous "penny per mile" claims. Tesla is doing good work but there's no shortage of snake oil, either.

Meh?

[MetroMPG]

Good diggin', omg. Thanks for posting that.

[SVOboy]

Better not slow down unless you REALLY need too, :)

[Silveredwings]

Blistering! :D

[MetroMPG]

Blistering indeed.

[Gearshredder]

so then is the cost per km still round $.02? (since the calc error)?

[MetroMPG]

Hi - yup, the cost calcs weren't affected by the error.

[2TonJellyBean]

Emergency disconnect isn't done yet, but it'll be wrapped up tomorrow.

I realized I would have disconnected it unintentionally this evening. Got in the car at the store and pressed the clutch and brake when I put the key in. Tired. Old habit.

Maybe you might want to put something too soft feeling on the pedal surface so that when in auto-pilot it gives the brain a chance to do a real WT_ thought? :D

[skewbe]

...
Except I need a heat source. High humidity, cool temps + no heat = visibility problems...

I wondered if you were going to need an exhale tube or something. Try rainex or fogex maybe? I had a buddy who swore by it.

[MetroMPG]

I'd heard of rain-x

[SVOboy]

Too bad you're a goof for not using a mac.

[MetroMPG]

More of a sheep than a goof, I'd say.

[Coyote X]

two great video editing programs I use are Virtualdub (http://www.virtualdub.org/) and Jahshaka (http://www.jahshaka.org/).

both are free and can do a lot of stuff including converting from one format to another :)

[MetroMPG]

Thanks. I'm playing with virtualdub right now. Not having much luck (video speed seems to speed up & slow down). I'll try the other one.

[skewbe]

I did a little looking around on fog-x ,
It is now called rain-x anti-fog. Clean the inside of the window and apply it. Other EV users have seen benefit in using it (my metro needs help too, not a lot of btu's to spare with the engine always off). It is a silicon based treatment, and if you get it on your paint it will not paint right again supposedly, so apply carefully.

Did I miss a link to the videos or something?

[MetroMPG]

Coyote: thanks for that. I've got the files converting in VirtualDub.

[Gearshredder]

hey, you should put some higher-than-youtube video quality on your site so then we could actually read what the gauges say which is really hard on many youtube videos :)

[MetroMPG]

ForkenTube:

[Coyote X]

I have lots of bandwidth if you need it :) my service is for 2tb of traffic a month.

[Silveredwings]

ForkenSweet! Congratulations on your very laudable achievment. :thumbup:

<play_PompAndCircumstance />

[trebuchet03]

Nice, congratulations :)


So, what's next for the forkenswift? You were talking about a controller bypass -- is that in the works with your fancy clutch safety?

[MetroMPG]

Thanks, SW.

[MetroMPG]

Went to the EV meeting in Ottawa yesterday.

[SVOboy]

Get them! If you don't use them for the car I'm sure you could figure something else out interesting for them...electric scooter!

[MetroMPG]

Yeah - no shortage of things to do with a bunch of batteries... Just time!

[MetroMPG]

I picked it up this evening. We've got a few issues.

[MetroMPG]

Also: since last posting, our 24v charger stopped working.... and with help from an EVDL E.E., I fixed it! (It was a burnt out SCR on the circuit board, which I replaced/upgraded to a more robust component on his advice.)

[SVOboy]

It's so cool how you ev people help each other out so much!

Whatever happened with that batteries you just got?

[MetroMPG]

Yeah, the EV community is pretty awesome.

[Gearshredder]

hey when you find out which of the batts are strong and weak, i dont know if you know but there was an article somewhere telling how to arrange them so that you get the most power out of them.
The battery resistance causes the batteries closest to the power connectors, depending on how arranged, are drained faster.

Edit: heres the link: http://www.reuk.co.uk/Interconnecting-Batteries-for-Battery-Bank.htm

[MetroMPG]

That's really interesting!

The example only discusses a parallel string though - four batteries of the same type connected so the pack voltage is the same as the nominal individual battery voltage. I'm not sure it applies to a series connected pack, though, which is what most EVs use (though some use several series strings which are then paralleled, or a series string with each battery having a buddy (individually paralleled neighbour).

EDIT: there was actually a discussion in the EVDL about where to place the ammeter shunt in a series connected pack to measure current. The poster asked: will I get the same current reading if I connect the ammeter at the end of the pack vs. somewhere in the middle, between 2 batteries?

The answer was: in a series pack, current flow is equal through all batteries. So I think the example you linked to only applies where batteries are paralleled. Still good info though.

[MetroMPG]

3) A weird rubbery squeak/graunch type sound when the drivetrain is loaded up abruptly from a stop. It's either a motor/tranny mount complaining or the rubber spider in the motor/tranny coupler. Need to investigate.

It's a transmisison mount on the driver's side "frame rail". There seems to be a lot of play in the big rubber bushing, plus it makes the funny sound when the drivetrain is torqued up.

[oh95vx]

For anyone who might be interested in joining the Electric Vehicle discussion mailing list (EVDL), the link above (http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html) contains outdated subscription info. The current info is at

http://www.evdl.org/

Thanks!

[MetroMPG]

Thanks for pointing that out - I changed the earlier reference too.

[DaX]

It's a transmisison mount on the driver's side "frame rail". There seems to be a lot of play in the big rubber bushing, plus it makes the funny sound when the drivetrain is torqued up.

Question is: do those bushings fail and allow excessive play? Or am I just hearing a new noise with potentially the same amount of play that was there before?

The rubber in these mounts does tend to dry rot, crack, and fail, causing a loose mount. The cheapest and easiest solution is to go to AutoZone (do they even have those in CA?) or equivalent, and get a product that comes in a caulk tube called 3M Windo Weld:

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v73/108/98/12804481/n12804481_31821453_8338.jpg

Get a caulk gun, load this up, pull the mount out of the car, and just fill all the voids in the rubber part of the mount with it. Let it cure for about 24 hours before putting it back in the car. I have in the past purchased urethane inserts for my mounts and even expensive urethane mounts, but this stuff is 90% as good and WAY cheaper. It is messy though!

[MetroMPG]

Excellent tip. Thanks, Dax.

[TygerEye]

Thoroughly enjoyed reading you and watching your videos.

I like your approach: Jump in head first and engineer around obstacles as they pop up. I am a minor scholar of Thomas Edison and he used the same approach.

Unfortunately, this spirit of discovery has all but disappeared today. I am trained as a scientist and I believe people permit technology and communications to confirm every new idea is impossible or impracticable.
e.g. "Were it possible, one would already be doing it...!" The same sort of thinking which nearly shut down the US Patent Office in the 19th century.

We are fortunate to have some hardy pioneers as you and Ivan in your generation. Our society and our planet depend upon you!