Anyone not use clutch?

[88HF]

Does anyone here not use their clutch to change gears? I used to do it alot, but havn't lately. I bet a scangauge would be awesome for this if I had a newer vehicle. The trick is kind of feeling and remembering what rpms and how.

[SVOboy]

I like my clutch, I feel that it is very useful, ;)

[Bill in Houston]

I am in favor of using the clutch...

[kitcar]

Used to only use the clutch on my Ninja at stoplights. All other times, speedshifting. I'll tell you what, that was fun going through 6 gears in a heartbeat getting on the highway.

In the truck since I only use 2nd, 3rd and 5th, it's no bother to use the clutch. Lately I've been going from 2nd to 5th.

[psyshack]

I have to use the clutch in my new Civic. In other cars Ive not had to use it for up shifts and some down shifts. But the Civics cables and rubber feeling of the shifter isnt good for clutchless gear changes.

psy

[ffvben]

I've tried shifting without using the clutch, seems like it only works if there is no load. don't step on gas, the gears seem to line up and easily shift to next gear without touching the clutch pedal. usually after 2nd gear it seems like the best. i don't own a manual at the moment so I cant compare mpg with using/not using clutch. clutch is engaged all the time but you have to let your rmps drop some to smoothly shift.

[JanGeo]

Was driving with a buddy of mine in his beetle and we was doing that . . . here's what happens . . . most of the time you get lucky . . . you put a little extra wear on the syncros waiting for the gears to match speed. Once in a while you catch a gear tooth at the tip and put a lot of load on it and maybe just maybe chip it. That little fragment is hardened steel and finds it way into the bearings and other gears and things start grinding themselves up until eventually . . . you start walking.

[Snax]

I don't believe that there is any practical reason to do clutchless shifting in the name of fuel economy - or for that matter, in the name of anything else except acceleration with a sequential gearbox. It's good practice for finding the correct engagement rpm of each gear, but that's about it IMO.

[Snax]

. . . most of the time you get lucky . . . you put a little extra wear on the syncros waiting for the gears to match speed. Once in a while you catch a gear tooth at the tip and put a lot of load on it and maybe just maybe chip it. That little fragment is hardened steel and finds it way into the bearings and other gears and things start grinding themselves up until eventually . . . you start walking.
Well if you want to be pessimistic about it. ;)

It's not really worth the effort and risk I suppose.

[Gary Palmer]

I do clutchless shifting, some of the time. You do need to have the engine speed and the car speed aligned pretty close and you do need to have it in a no load from either end, for it to work. I don't do it for fuel economy. I do it because I hate working on my car any more than I have to and if I do clutchless shifting then I'm not putting any wear on the clutch.

However, because of the potential for missing and grinding gears, I have generally gotten to where I still try to match the speeds, as if I were going to do a clutchless shift, but I use the clutch anyway, so I don't grind the gears. My thought is that doing that minimizes risk, the clutch and the flywheel are turning at pretty close to the same speed, so that their is very little wear to the clutch, but if I'm off a little on my speed or something, it doesn't kill the transmission.

[JanGeo]

Motorcycle transmissions work differently - their gears are in constant mesh but they get locked to their shafts by forks shifting dogs (+ shaped pieces sliding on the splined shafts) that engauge into pins on the gears. They can chip too but there is enough slop that if you get the dog engauged fast enough you get full contact.

[basjoos]

I've only not used the clutch when I had cars that didn't have a functioning clutch. Either the clutch cable or throwout arm had broken and in one case where a sedentary Subaru's clutch had rusted shut (drove around for a few miles with the clutch pedal pressed down until the clutch plates popped apart). I dislike the clutch/starter lockout circuit found on modern cars that prevents you from starting the ICE with the clutch released, so you can't start it in gear.

[usedgeo]

Way back when I worked in the truck shop one of the regular owner drivers had only one leg. His truck had a 4 speed auxilary transmission with a low low. I am pretty sure he never used the clutch very much ;) . It was such a low gear you could actully easily start the engine with the truck in gear. I never really learned all the details of how he managed but he seemed to do quite well. A big old Cummins could pull very well at idle rpm so he may have used the clutch to start out sometimes too. You could actually bump some of those into gear with the engine idling and the truck stopped.

The shift splits are set up pretty even so you will have almost the same rpm drop every shift. The show offs would use the engine compression brake to drop the rpm quicker. That had the potential for some rough shifts.

Even 30 years ago many of the shifts were air assisted. That made for quick shifts with little grinding. A few shifts had synchros, most did not.

It is fun to play around but I use the clutch.


I have read somewhere that truckers feel when they master clutchless shifting it is actually easier on the tranny?!?

[VetteOwner]

I've only not used the clutch when I had cars that didn't have a functioning clutch. Either the clutch cable or throwout arm had broken and in one case where a sedentary Subaru's clutch had rusted shut (drove around for a few miles with the clutch pedal pressed down until the clutch plates popped apart). I dislike the clutch/starter lockout circuit found on modern cars that prevents you from starting the ICE with the clutch released, so you can't start it in gear.


LOL its not modern at all... my 27 year old chevette has it. its easy to fix tho. the switch in my truck broke so i just pulled the plug, cut the 2 wires from the plug and crimped them together. now it starts in gear in neutral whenever...:D

[VetteOwner]

LOL its ok. isnt it about past your bedtime? hehe JK

[Hockey4mnhs]

its past mine fo sho

[Gary Palmer]

One other deep thinking consideration. If you do clutchless shifting, or you try to shift the transmission at close to the same conditions you would if you were using clutchless shifting, then you the synchros in the transmission have a lot less work and wear on them.

[Bill in Houston]

I think that clutchless shifting would be really rough on the synchros. I mean, even if you do a pretty good job rev-matching, you still will cause more wear than if you had pressed the clutch...

[Gary Palmer]

Now I'm not following you. The synchro's only engage when you are shifting gears. If the gears are already running at the right speed to do clutchless shifting, then the gears should already be at the same speed, so that their isn't any wear.

I'm not suggesting someone do clutchless shifting, I am just trying to follow how it would create more wear.

[Gary Palmer]

Ok, I think that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

[Lug_Nut]

"Modern" cars (since 1930's?)
I had a 1964 International Harvester Scout with a three speed, but synchronized 2nd and 3rd only. I think my 1964 Ford Fairlane also had synchronized 2nd and 3rd only.
I presently have a 1969 Saab with the freewheeling mechanism still functional. I need the clutch to start rolling in first, but once rolling no clutch is needed for up shifts or down shifts. Release the accelerator, move the shift lever to the next higher (or lower) gear, press the accelerator.
My 1996~97 VW TDI never had a clutch-starter interlock, nor did my prior 4 VW diesels, Renault, Audi or prior Saab, as this ability to move the vehicle under starter motor power is considered a safety feature. I happen to agree with that opinion. I don't believe any of the manual shift European cars I've owned / driven have had clutch-starter interlocks, But I can't remember them all (senility?).
Don't make generalizations about generalizations.

[Bill in Houston]

My 1996~97 VW TDI never had a clutch-starter interlock,Really? That is shocking to me. Older stuff, sure. But a '96 model? I actually thought that they were a DOT/NHTSA requirement by then. Hmm...