electric vehicle (bike/motorcycle) on the cheap?

[skewbe]

Ok, I should probably discuss this here even though it is about bikes/motorcycles, the most interesting thing is the electric aspect IMHO.

I've been looking for "affordable" electric options.

I saw this quick and dirty motorcycle conversion:
http://www.marquecornblatt.com/art/cycle.html

And I says to myself "That looks way easy". But you start pricing it out and it gets expensive, the PERM 132 is $895 (just magnets and wire, no?!?) or kits up to $2300 ( http://www.electricmotorsport.com/PARTS/parts.htm ). The junker bike is the cheap part :)

Even an electric bicycle is a bit on the expensive side, costing upwards of $1000. I've seen kits on ebay but can't see spending $400 on them since I still need a lot more battery (and maybe a bicycle trailer for the batteries).

And neither of these can get me to work and back (though the gomi bike batteries might just be tired).

My "requirements" are:
1. it has to schlep me 50 miles a day without too much physical effort.
2. Recharge overnight
3. be able to go 25mph if it's an electric bike, 50mph if it is an electric motorcycle.
4. would like to invest about $150 for ebicycle, $500 for emotorcycle1. Only looking for motor/batteries/controller options, not assembled vehicles or things mechanical/legal. I expect to do a lot of stuff myself to make those numbers of course.

So where do I start if I'm on a tight budget?
Can one locate and recondition used alarm system/sump pump/trolling batteries? Is there a better option?
Do they have a "wind your own" motor kit or are there other used motors available that are suitable and in surplus?
Are there simple controllers? I could probably live with full throttle only if it doesn't break stuff.

I'm sure folks have spent a lot of time trying to get to electric AND getting the cost down. Got any ideas you are willing to share?

[JanGeo]

Stop searching - 50 miles is unobtainable with cheep parts and really hard with the best parts.

[MetroMPG]

Don't listen to JanGeo :) Be resourceful and you may be able to pull this off.

The most important step in being resourceful is finding a way to recharge, or partially recharge, while at work. That will cut cost & weight by reducing the battery pack size requirement.

Check this EV Album entry: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1207

- top speed 30 mph
- range 80 miles (!) though he doesn't say at what average speed or to what depth of discharge
- cost $670 (may be $CDN - guy lives in Thunder Bay, Ontario)

Note that $100 of that was for a mountain bike; you can get those parts for free if you scrounge. $350 was for the hub motor; you can get used hub motor kits for less if you're willing to put in the eBay time & effort.

Note also that his range is with no pedalling (there aren't any on his design). You can reasonably expect to double an e-bike's range by supplying a modest amount of muscle power.

Maybe you could even improve the aesthetics :)

[skewbe]

Thanks for the link, he didnt exactly beat the price curve, but interesting to know how fast and far he is going. I'd have to have pedals or license it as a motorcycle/scooter, I can imagine what the DMV would say ;)

P.S. what's wrong with the esthetics? They follow the function pretty well IMHO.

[JanGeo]

With 16lbs batteries and a 450 watt motor he has to be walking up hills and the capacity of those batteries has to be pretty low like 15ah since lead typically runs about 1ah per pound and gels are lower output. Definately an over night charge - and unless I really underestiminate the rolling resistance of those wheels to get 80 miles at 20 mph is 4 hours so he is running 4 amps at 36 volts or 144 watts x 80% eff. to the wheel - not a hill climber!!

See the problem is energy density - a gallon of gas has about 9kwh of usable energy with a 25% efficient ICE and a battery made of lead would weigh about 600lbs or more to carry the same energy. Now if EEStor gets their ultracap available then you can have 15kwh of energy in under 100lbs.

[Bill in Houston]

Could you recharge at work?

[skewbe]

I considered that. If I make the battery holder into one of those little briefcase dolly's (like you see people schlepping their laptops and ataches on) and figure out how to drag it and the batteries behind the bike, maybe. It wouldn't hurt if the batteries actually LOOKED like an atache' on a dolly :)

This is gonna be cheap so it's gonna be big and heavy.

I also considered something like a cox sized engine/generator but nahh.

[Bill in Houston]

The ultimate series hybrid! A dinky little engine running 24 hours per day to charge a battery that covers your commute...

I hope you come up with something that works well for you.

[MetroMPG]

to get 80 miles at 20 mph is 4 hours so he is running 4 amps at 36 volts or 144 watts x 80% eff. to the wheel - not a hill climber!!

Yeah, but do it with pedals and you could reduce the battery pack by 50% (which also reduces weight and makes the bike more efficient) ... or leave it as-is and double the range. Climbing moderate hills with moderate pedalling would be no sweat, literally.

I'd love to see someone build an e-bike version of this.

[JanGeo]

I have a 1hp electric motor all set to drive my front crank with a one way sprocket - just need to make the motor bracket and get the darn left crank off to mount the gear and fix the front wheel spokes. Then I get all 21 gears available on my mtb with a brushless motor drive and LiIon battery pack made from laptop cells to run it all of which I have already plus full suspension.

[skewbe]

I have a 1hp electric motor all set to drive my front crank with a one way sprocket - just need to make the motor bracket and get the darn left crank off to mount the gear and fix the front wheel spokes. Then I get all 21 gears available on my mtb with a brushless motor drive and LiIon battery pack made from laptop cells to run it all of which I have already plus full suspension.


more specs please, what voltage and amp hour, how many cells, how you controlling it, how far and fast do you predict?

[JanGeo]

The motor is a PowerPack motor kit with controller programmable for several voltages - actually it just works over a wide voltage range. No regen of course but a bike doesn't really need it. It is rated for 35-40 amps and 42 volts I think. It has a plantary gear reduction on the motor. The LiIon cells I have are 2ah 5amps output max and I have about 70 of them so a 10x7 pack will give me 35 amps and 42 volts max but I will probably run them at a lower voltage and more amps. What is nice is the battery should weigh about 10 lbs - not bad for a 36 volt nominal 14ah pack about 1/3 that of lead.

[skewbe]

cool, just curious, in staying with the "cheap" theme of this thread, how much for 70 laptop batteries? And how do you charge them?

The motor is a PowerPack motor kit with controller programmable for several voltages - actually it just works over a wide voltage range. No regen of course but a bike doesn't really need it. It is rated for 35-40 amps and 42 volts I think. It has a plantary gear reduction on the motor. The LiIon cells I have are 2ah 5amps output max and I have about 70 of them so a 10x7 pack will give me 35 amps and 42 volts max but I will probably run them at a lower voltage and more amps. What is nice is the battery should weigh about 10 lbs - not bad for a 36 volt nominal 14ah pack about 1/3 that of lead.

[jackmty999]

the only problem of electric motorcycle is the battery, i have bought one china scooter but now the battery is dead i dont know where to buy it china battery with higher amperes.

[JanGeo]

Lightweigh cost money - with 50+ quantity pricing on the Lithium cells 2ah each go for about $3.80 each, I forget what the shipping was.

[Ryland]

one electric vehicle web site I saw pointed out "an electric vehicle is only as good as it's battery" this is why my electric bike is still waiting for a better battery.

[JanGeo]

Good news is that it should be good for about 1000 cycles and they don't run down by themselves much so you don't have to keep pumping power into them to keep them up. Bad news is that they age even if you do not use them so . . . buy them at the last minute!