SuperMID M1, MPG Computer

[krousdb]

I had mentioned earlier that I was looking for a mileage computer for my del Sol. What I didn't mention is that I had one for my Prius for an event that I partipated in last summer. It is called the SuperMid. This is a very long thread but you can see some pictures of the device when we reported mileage after each shift.

Why did I need a mileage computer for the Prius when it already has one???? Well, we were able to exceed the 99.9 MPG limit. The SuperMID shows km/l up to 99.9, which translates to 235 MPG.

http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/prius-ii-100-mpg-marathon-attempt-live-updates.3041.html?page=1&pp=10&highlight=marathon

I sent the SuperMID back home to my friend Yoshi in Japan, but I just got a message from him that the same device will work on my del Sol. I just need to calibrate it by changing the parameters for fuel injection duration and distance values. So it is back on it's way to Pittsburgh as soon as he makes some mods to it. I expect it by the end of the month. In the mean time I just need to locate the speed sensor and injector wires to tap into. And since I am in no danger of exceeding 99.9 MPG, I will calibrate to miles per gallon instead of km/l. The labels will still read km/l however.

Cool stuff. I will post install pics and data when I get the SuperMid

[Matt Timion]

Awesome. I wrote the company that makes the oztrip asking if I could buy either a kit or an assembled unit. Their response was that the oztrip computer is no longer in production and that they were working on a new model. This new model, however, will not be completed for a very long time, they say.

Hopefully the SuperMID M1 will be a good replacement, as I *neeed* a mpg readout.

[Matt Timion]

Upon further reading it appears that the SuperMID m-1 is made for the prius. I'd be interested in knowing how it can be converted to an obd1 honda car such as yours, as all of the posts I've read indicate that the program is written based on Prius constants (fuel pressure, etc.)

Maybe I can still coax flatland2d into making a mpg display.

[krousdb]

Upon further reading it appears that the SuperMID m-1 is made for the prius. I'd be interested in knowing how it can be converted to an obd1 honda car such as yours, as all of the posts I've read indicate that the program is written based on Prius constants (fuel pressure, etc.)

Maybe I can still coax flatland2d into making a mpg display.

Matt,
There are two calibration parameters, one for fuel and one for speed. Calibrating the speedo/odo is as simple as going for a drive on the highway and counting mile posts. Just scale the distance parameter to calibrate. For the fuel, Just run a tank through and compare what the computer says to how many gallons you pumped. Then scale the fuel parameter. This is the same way that the oztrip works too.

[Matt Timion]

How much does one cost? Where can i order it?

[krousdb]

How much does one cost? Where can i order it?

I'm not sure if he is selling them yet. I will check.

[DaX]

as simple as going for a drive on the highway and counting mile posts.

I've often been curious how accurate this is. Does anyone know the precision of mile posts? Is it 1 foot, 10 feet, 100 feet?

[krousdb]

I've often been curious how accurate this is. Does anyone know the precision of mile posts? Is it 1 foot, 10 feet, 100 feet?

Calibrate you speedometer and then check it out with a stop watch, :p

I am also very interested in this, need to buy a damn DMM so I can do your set up first though. Inaaccurate NJ pumping is killing me.

I have found that mile posts are very accurate over long distances. I have tested this in many states on many interstate highways and have always gotten very close results with the same car. I have tested the Prius on 100 mile stretches of the PA turnpike, OH turnpike, New York, Indy Turnpike and some state routes in the Carolinas. Sure, if you do a test for 10 miles you could be off because there is an obsticle where the marker post should be so they move it a few feet. But over 100 miles or even 50 miles, over many different roads, my Prius odo would show within +/- 0.2% of the mile posts. I just do it as a habit on long drives. Something to keep me from falling asleep.

Now the speedo thing might not be quite as accurate. First, don't necessarily assume that the speedo accuracy is equal to the odo accuracy. For digital speed readouts like prius, both use the same speed signal and display digitally so they should be the same. But with analog speedo/odo like my del sol, because there are two analog devices that use a common speed signal, you have some error that could occur. The needle could hang a little or be heavier from one car to the next. I have found that with the Outback and the del Sol, the speedo is lower than the odo, by about 1 MPH. Probably err to the low side for legal reasons.

I use the stopwatch method that you suggested for speedo calibration but it is much more difficult because you have to keep it on 60 and cruise ain't perfect. If you have hills or traffic, you are likely not to maintain 60 for very long. I have a 28 mile of flat state route in SC that I test speedos on. Perfectly flat and no traffic so cruise can give good results. It will be hard to test the del Sol down there. No cruise and it's hard to get the family of 4, a dog and vacation gear all in the del Sol.

The other method of speedo calibration is to drive by one of those speed signs that they place out every once in awhile to warn people to slow down. Problem with those is that they seem to be off by quite a bit.


I'm rambling now.....

[Matt Timion]

FYI, your del sol uses a digital VSS, so you can easily switch to a digital speedometer if you want to.

[Matt Timion]

Just received an email from Yoshi. He is saying that he might be able to assemble one for me after we find out how it works in your Del Sol.

[krousdb]

Just received an email from Yoshi. He is saying that he might be able to assemble one for me after we find out how it works in your Del Sol.

Yes,
I heard the same from him today. He also said.....

The Toyota Tech Manual says the injector spec is between 36 to 46cc
in 15 sec, which means about 164cc/min. However, my Prius measurement
result is 222cc. The default fuel parameter is 13515 to meet Prius.
Anyway, the fuel parameter can be set about plus/minus 50% of above.
I believe you'll be able to find the best parameter using the current
+/- 50% range.

Your 240cc is just a spec value, and I believe the actual may be varied.
Good solution is that drive a tank, then fill up.
Calc the real mileage, then compare to the displayed value.
Then, adjust the parameter referring to the bottom of attached PDF file
which was sent to you last summer.
Anyway, I believe you don't need an absolute mileage value, but
a relative value comparing your driving styles will be enough. :-)

Regarding to distance parameter, the default 2572 value should
be right on if you wear a standard size of tires. It's the industrial
standard.

I have a pdf file that explains the features and calibration parameters. I just don't know how to post it.

[krousdb]

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1883/m1menueng7of.jpg

SuperMID Functions and calibration detail. I had to convert to jpeg before the service would accept it. The pdf is much clearer.

[krousdb]

The SuperMID set up for the Prius has a distance parameter value of 2572. If you divide by 3, you get 857. The Prius OEM tire has 855 revs per mile. So my guess is that the Prius speed sensor sends out 3 pulses per revolution. Can anyone tell me if the Honda speed sensors have the same 3 pulses per revolution? If so, since my tires are 840 revs per mile, I will set the parameter to 2520.

[DaX]

The SuperMID set up for the Prius has a distance parameter value of 2572. If you divide by 3, you get 857. The Prius OEM tire has 855 revs per mile. So my guess is that the Prius speed sensor sends out 3 pulses per revolution. Can anyone tell me if the Honda speed sensors have the same 3 pulses per revolution? If so, since my tires are 840 revs per mile, I will set the parameter to 2520.

In the OBD training manuals I sent you, I think this is outlined.

[Yoshi]

Hello all from Japan.
Thank you for your interest in my SuperMID.
The SuperMID set up for the Prius has a distance parameter value of 2572. If you divide by 3, you get 857. The Prius OEM tire has 855 revs per mile. So my guess is that the Prius speed sensor sends out 3 pulses per revolution. Can anyone tell me if the Honda speed sensors have the same 3 pulses per revolution? If so, since my tires are 840 revs per mile, I will set the parameter to 2520.
The revolution standard is some what different.
Let's imagine an old mechanical speedometer driven by wire cable.
The industrial standard is 637 revolution for 1km drive.
Hopefully, Honda uses the same standard.

Prius sends 4 pulses per the cabe revolution, which means about 39.25 cm/pulse. ( 100,000 cm / (637 * 4 ) )
The SuperMID M-1 wants 0.01km(10m) resolution, then I programmed it as follows...
A 16bit register accumulates "some value" until it overflowed(value becomes 65536 or over), then increment the 10m memory data. We need 25.48 pulses for 10m drive. ( 1000 cm / 39.25 cm )
The "some value" is 65536 / 25.48 = 2572.

So, please forget to compare the tire sizes between Prius and del sol.
Please compare between standard and your tire on del sol, or it is better to calibrate the display value using your favorite miles-post method. :)

Regards,
Yoshi

[krousdb]

Hello all from Japan.
Thank you for your interest in my SuperMID.
The SuperMID set up for the Prius has a distance parameter value of 2572. If you divide by 3, you get 857. The Prius OEM tire has 855 revs per mile. So my guess is that the Prius speed sensor sends out 3 pulses per revolution. Can anyone tell me if the Honda speed sensors have the same 3 pulses per revolution? If so, since my tires are 840 revs per mile, I will set the parameter to 2520.
The revolution standard is some what different.
Let's imagine an old mechanical speedometer driven by wire cable.
The industrial standard is 637 revolution for 1km drive.
Hopefully, Honda uses the same standard.

Prius sends 4 pulses per the cabe revolution, which means about 39.25 cm/pulse. ( 100,000 cm / (637 * 4 ) )
The SuperMID M-1 wants 0.01km(10m) resolution, then I programmed it as follows...
A 16bit register accumulates "some value" until it overflowed(value becomes 65536 or over), then increment the 10m memory data. We need 25.48 pulses for 10m drive. ( 1000 cm / 39.25 cm )
The "some value" is 65536 / 25.48 = 2572.

So, please forget to compare the tire sizes between Prius and del sol.
Please compare between standard and your tire on del sol, or it is better to calibrate the display value using your favorite miles-post method. :)

Regards,
Yoshi


Yoshi, Glad to see you here! I will probably leave the default value and change it after 50 miles on my trip odometer. I can get it close anyway. Then I will do the milepost calibration. I can hardly wait!

[Matt Timion]

mile post calibration may be the best bet for me. My tires are not the stock size, so my odometer/speedometer is not 100% accurate, although it is within error.

Maybe another possible solution is to drive a certain distance with a handheld GPS unit that is accurate within a few feet and then use the distance displayed there.

[DaX]

Whichever method you use [milepost or GPS], be sure to keep in mind that the more markers you pass, the more accurate your results due to the law of averaging.

[Matt Timion]

Whichever method you use [milepost or GPS], be sure to keep in mind that the more markers you pass, the more accurate your results due to the law of averaging.

Very true. I might have access to GPS equipment soon that is made to have accuracy of .05 feet, which is less than an inch. If there is the right software to calculate distance and speed, then I'll be set for calibration.

[krousdb]

Good from Yoshi today. He said that he hoped to have the M1 finished over the weekend and send it to me on Monday. It should be here 6-10 after that. I can't wait!

[krousdb]

Fo sheezy?

Fo Shizzle!


Are you allowed to say how much it cost you cuz I can say that I'm wanting to get one of these kewl things!?

I can't say right now. After my BETA test we will work out a price.

[Matt Timion]

I actually had an elaborate daydream about this computer yesterday. I managed to find a black plastic case for it, and then mounted it on my dashboard with something that resembles a surround sound speaker mount. I ran the wires through the dashboard down to the ECU.

It was really cool.

Needless to say, I'm excited.

[krousdb]

I actually had an elaborate daydream about this computer yesterday. I managed to find a black plastic case for it, and then mounted it on my dashboard with something that resembles a surround sound speaker mount. I ran the wires through the dashboard down to the ECU.

It was really cool.

Needless to say, I'm excited.

A true gassaver, daydreaming of fuel saving enabler devices. Do you dream of such things at night also? Does your wife think you are nuts? My wife thinks I am nuts but she says that it's better than some other scenarios that she can think of.

Yoshi builds these in his spare time so it may take some time to make more for youse guys. But I seem to remember when I got the first one for the Prius that he had offered to supply the parts if and i could build it myself. But since my soldering skills are far from adequate, I decided to wait for him to build it for me.

Now maybe you are more comfortable with building electronics. If so, you might be able to get a kit faster and at a lower price than if it were built by Yoshi. More details here, need to translate.

http://priusdiy.fc2web.com/NENPIKEI.html

[krousdb]

Fo sheezy?

Are you allowed to say how much it cost you cuz I can say that I'm wanting to get one of these kewl things!?

The price will be $160 shipped for a built and tested unit. I just need to verify that it works for my car.

[krousdb]

Trying to install now!

Woooooooot!

[SVOboy]

.

[krousdb]

Thought you couldn't pick it up until saturday?

Post office delivered today. Since I signed the slip, they left it in my storm door.

It's installed and shows about 2ms PW at idle. Sounds close. Im going for a drive to verify speed sensor works.

[krousdb]

I just took a drive to see what the initial calibration was like. The trip odometer on the del camino says 6.0 miles. The SuperMid says 9.70 km or 6.01 miles. I expected it to be close because I am using the same size tires as a Prius.

After the 6 mile trip the display showed 0.376 liters used, or 25.79 km/l, or 60.6 MPG. Hmmm the calibration seems a little off there, but not too much. The Del Sol uses 240cc injectors. Yoshi says his Prius calibration number shows 222cc. So there is probably an under registration of 10% which would bring me back down to 54 MPG. Sounds about right because I started on a warm engine. I'm gonna drive to work and back to get a better calibration on the odometer and see what the trip FE is. I will adjust the calibration down to make the trip 51MPG which is what I average. Then I will fill up the tank for a full tank calibration.

So far so good with the BETA testing. I was even able to verify that the injectors shut off completely under colsed throttle. The PW shows 0.0. I have it hooked up so that I can shut off the engine and restart by either bump start or starter and the SuperMID keeps on recording distance.

Not I just have to figure out how to mount it. ;-)

[Matt Timion]

I just took a drive to see what the initial calibration was like. The trip odometer on the del camino says 6.0 miles. The SuperMid says 9.70 km or 6.01 miles. I expected it to be close because I am using the same size tires as a Prius.

After the 6 mile trip the display showed 0.376 liters used, or 25.79 km/l, or 60.6 MPG. Hmmm the calibration seems a little off there, but not too much. The Del Sol uses 240cc injectors. Yoshi says his Prius calibration number shows 222cc. So there is probably an under registration of 10% which would bring me back down to 54 MPG. Sounds about right because I started on a warm engine. I'm gonna drive to work and back to get a better calibration on the odometer and see what the trip FE is. I will adjust the calibration down to make the trip 51MPG which is what I average. Then I will fill up the tank for a full tank calibration.

So far so good with the BETA testing. I was even able to verify that the injectors shut off completely under colsed throttle. The PW shows 0.0. I have it hooked up so that I can shut off the engine and restart by either bump start or starter and the SuperMID keeps on recording distance.

Not I just have to figure out how to mount it. ;-)

I'm pretty excited about this. I would be more excited if the price wasn't $160.

Now to your mounting question. Does it come in a plastic case? If so, I would recommend trying to mount a speaker mount for a surround sound speaker (the little ones in the corner of the rooms) to the back of it. You can screw it into your dashboard. Height, angle, etc. are all adjustable at this point.

[Compaq888]

How does it work so that when the trottle is closed your fuel supply is off????

Anybody know if my car got that?

[Flatland2D]

...Then I will fill up the tank for a full tank calibration...


I would suggest maybe doing a highway trial that can be completed in an hour or two and still be tenths or hundreds of a MPG accurate. Then you could have you gauge up and running (calibrated) a lot sooner. Top off, spend some time enjoying that sexy Del Sol of yours, top off again, and calculate. I've done a few tests this way and the results are surprisingly accurate. Accurate enough to measure the effects of a few degrees of ambient temperature difference in fuel economy.

[MetroMPG]

this is great news, krousdb. an mpg computer for the non obd2 set.

the price isn't too crazy. at $160 it's $30 more than a new scangauge, but less than many of the laptop-connectable OBD scanners.

[Yoshi]

So far so good with the BETA testing.
Thank you for your report.
Glad to hear the basic functions are working well.

Yoshi

[Yoshi]

How does it work so that when the trottle is closed your fuel supply is off????
It measures the pulse width of injector for the fuel usage.
If the vehicle goes to the fuel cut mode, the pulse width becomes zero.
Anybody know if my car got that?
Basically, the SuperMID M-1 works on any car which has fuel injectors and speed(distance) pulse output.

Do you know the pins for these signals from your ECU?

Yoshi

[Yoshi]

Now to your mounting question. Does it come in a plastic case?
No, it does not. :)
It looks like this...
upper: SuperMID M-1 (mileage meter)
lower: SuperMID T-1 (tacho meter)

Yoshi
http://park2.wakwak.com/~mapokln85/Prius/VSDII/SuperM1_08.jpg

[krousdb]

I found a convienient place to mount it. I didn't really need a case. you can't see it from the outside of the car because it is hidden by the safety and emmission stickers.

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1451/supermid4xx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Another interesting point is the % time the engine is running and FE while the engine is running(shown as 76% and 19.46 km/l). During the 6 mile test run, the injectors were only active for 76% of the trip time, either because the engine was off completely or the injectors were cutoff during closed throttle engine braking. Whil the engine is running, my FE is shown as 19.46 km/L or 46 MPG. Now some of the off time was due to stopping at a convinience store for a few minutes to pick up some stuff. Also I had the supermid runnning for several minutes during installation so the 27 minute and 21km/h ave speed are not truly indicative of the trip.

More to come. Thanks Yoshi!

[krousdb]

this is great news, krousdb. an mpg computer for the non obd2 set.

the price isn't too crazy. at $160 it's $30 more than a new scangauge, but less than many of the laptop-connectable OBD scanners.

I'm guessing that shipping is ~$30. So buying in bulk should be cheaper. A kit would be even less but Yoshi says they are hard to build.

[MetroMPG]

i'll also point out that this is more accurate than the scangauge, which apparently doesn't recognize the injectors-off condition.

[Matt Timion]

I know that this is rather USA-centric of me, but it DOES display US miles and gallons, right?

[krousdb]

I know that this is rather USA-centric of me, but it DOES display US miles and gallons, right?

Not with it's current programming. I thought that I would just adjust the fuel and distance parameters to force a MPG output but unfortunately there is not enough range in those numbers to do that. I am used to km/L from having it in my Prius. Just take the the km/L output and multiply by 2.35. My target is 22 km/L which is 51.7 MPG. If you just keep that target in mind, you at least know if you are above or below it.

[Yoshi]

I know that this is rather USA-centric of me, but it DOES display US miles and gallons, right?
Not with it's current programming.
Sorry about that, but Dan is right.
It was programmed for Japanese Prius and I tried to be optimized, effective and fast results for km/L.
Please try to acknowledge/understand the international SI units standard. :)
Yoshi

[Matt Timion]

Please try to acknowledge/understand the international SI units standard. :)
Yoshi


LOL. I'm a big fan of the metric system. Perhaps I can lobby the state government here to change all "Speed Limit" signs to have both MPH and KM/H on them.

[Yoshi]

Another interesting point is the % time the engine is running and FE while the engine is running(shown as 76% and 19.46 km/l). During the 6 mile test run, the injectors were only active for 76% of the trip time, either because the engine was off completely or the injectors were cutoff during closed throttle engine braking.
[snip]
Thanks Yoshi!
You're welcome!

One minor correction.
The % value is not % time but % distance.

So, your taget is 27% distance the engine running as same as the 1400 mile marathon, right? :)
Yoshi

[MetroMPG]

you'll get used to it, matt. i did :) - before i got the scangauge, i never used to "think" in mpg (US).

but after having learned my mpg (US) "targets", as dan pointed out, i stopped worrying about it.

to me it doesn't matter if the thing reports Kanseis per Farfegnugens as long as it's accurate and consistent. it's my "target" points and the relative differences between them that interest me most.

the only time i really like to have control of units is when running tests, when i select "km/gal (US)" output. nobody ever uses those units in real life, but it's where the SG offers the highest resolution for comparing readings. (i'm nit-picking, admittedly).

[krousdb]

So, your taget is 27% distance the engine running as same as the 1400 mile marathon, right? :)
Yoshi


LOL! I think 27% distance NOT running would be a more realistic target. Today on the way to work I showed engine on 79% of distance and 27.5 km/L (64.5 MPG). ;-)

Perhaps a little calibration is in order. I was guessing 55 MPG on the way to work and 47 on the way home, 51 average. This would correlate well with the typcal prius commute.

[krousdb]

Kanseis per Farfegnugens

I tried googling that unit of measure and came up with nothing.;-) Are you sure about the spelling? What would be the conversion factor?

[Compaq888]

How does it work so that when the trottle is closed your fuel supply is off????
It measures the pulse width of injector for the fuel usage.
If the vehicle goes to the fuel cut mode, the pulse width becomes zero.
Anybody know if my car got that?
Basically, the SuperMID M-1 works on any car which has fuel injectors and speed(distance) pulse output.

Do you know the pins for these signals from your ECU?

Yoshi


Yes I know them. I have a service manual from nissan, AEM EMS manual, and a hayne's manual. The question I asked was does anybody know if my car has the shutting off injection feature???

If this was sold for like a $100 I'd be all over it. Maybe we can do a group buy?

[MetroMPG]

does anybody know if my car has the shutting off injection feature

your nissan service manual should say.

but i kind of suspect that this feature isn't included on cars with automatic transmissions. if your fuel supply were shut off, wouldn't your motor would stop running (unless your torque converter was locked)?

*maybe* there's enough pressure in the torque converter (unlocked) above a certain rpm to keep the motor turning. i'm not certain.

in a manual shift car, the momentum of the vehicle through the direct connection of the wheels, tranny, and motor keeps the motor spinning, even when the fuel is off. when the rpm drops low enough that the engine is about to fall below idle rpm, the injectors start supplying fuel again.

i could be wrong on the auto trans thing. just a guess.

[Compaq888]

does anybody know if my car has the shutting off injection feature

your nissan service manual should say.

but i kind of suspect that this feature isn't included on cars with automatic transmissions. if your fuel supply were shut off, wouldn't your motor would stop running (unless your torque converter was locked)?

*maybe* there's enough pressure in the torque converter (unlocked) above a certain rpm to keep the motor turning. i'm not certain.

in a manual shift car, the momentum of the vehicle through the direct connection of the wheels, tranny, and motor keeps the motor spinning, even when the fuel is off. when the rpm drops low enough that the engine is about to fall below idle rpm, the injectors start supplying fuel again.

i could be wrong on the auto trans thing. just a guess.


I haven't seen anything like it in the manual. So I guess I don't have it. But still I'd get this thing but not the beta model. The production model would be cool. I consistently get 32-33mpg but I have to go through a couple of street lights to get to the gas station so I think my mpg is 35+mpg. With this unit I wouldn't have to do any driving tests and I could see what rpm is best for shifting and what speed is best for fuel economy.

Also would this mpg computer work with 0bd2??

[Matt Timion]

Also would this mpg computer work with 0bd2??

Absolutely, but if you have obd2 I'd just get a scangauge. It's cheaper, in MPG, and you can order one right now.

[Compaq888]

Also would this mpg computer work with 0bd2??

Absolutely, but if you have obd2 I'd just get a scangauge. It's cheaper, in MPG, and you can order one right now.


After reading hybrid forums this computer seems to be better than the scanguage at the fuel economy. I think by having it I can raise my mpg on the street by at least one and on the freeway by a couple. I know 40mpg is possible but it's a lot of trial and error. With this thing it can be achieved and much more!

[krousdb]

First, an update on the SuperMID and ignition off. I was focused on watching the pulse width go to zero and the SuperMID staying powered up, which it does. What I just noticed though is that the distance stops accumulating while the key is off. But you can't blame the SuperMID, it is still able to record distance, it's just that ignition off also cuts power to the speed sensor, so it is not able to send a pulse.

So yesterday, the SuperMID said 64.5 MPG on the way to work and 63.5 on the way home. I was very surprised that the difference between the two wasn't more. On the Prius, in similar temps it would be 65 there and 55 back.

So since I expected 51 MPG, a 64 MPG ave is close to 30% overregistration. Also, the distance was low by 3% so the total change to the fuel parameter was around 30%. I changed the distance parameter from 2572 to 2659 and the fuel parameter from 14052 to 10837. For the final stap, I filled the tank to the 2.5 OHM mark which worked out to 51.9 MPG.

More to come!

[john galt]

I've got a '95 F150 Ford with the I-6 EFI engine. I'm in Northern Canada where kilometres and litres are used, the truck speedometer and odometer are digital kilometres. Would the MID work for my truck?
MJ

[Yoshi]

First, an update on the SuperMID and ignition off. I was focused on watching the pulse width go to zero and the SuperMID staying powered up, which it does. What I just noticed though is that the distance stops accumulating while the key is off. But you can't blame the SuperMID, it is still able to record distance, it's just that ignition off also cuts power to the speed sensor, so it is not able to send a pulse.
Thank you for the report.
I see the limitation during the IG-OFF period.
So since I expected 51 MPG, a 64 MPG ave is close to 30% overregistration. Also, the distance was low by 3% so the total change to the fuel parameter was around 30%.
I believe the 3% short was caused by the IGN-OFF distance.
I changed the distance parameter from 2572 to 2659 and the fuel parameter from 14052 to 10837. For the final stap, I filled the tank to the 2.5 OHM mark which worked out to 51.9 MPG.
I think I must disagree to do such parameter change.
Because...
- Such parameter change maybe fits your current commute route and the environment, but it'll not always true on different road and environments.
- The parameters should not be set to meet your MPG value.
- The fuel usage parameter should be set to meet your real fuel usage.
- The distance parameter should be set to meet your real IG-ON distance.
- You can calculate your mileage using the fuel usage from the SuperMID and the Del Sol's trip meter.
- You can still refer to the engine-on mileage value.
- Please forget the SuperMID's mileage and distance value if you did some IGN-OFF technique.

That's my opinions.:)
Yoshi

[krousdb]

I think I must disagree to do such parameter change.
Because...
- Such parameter change maybe fits your current commute route and the environment, but it'll not always true on different road and environments.
- The parameters should not be set to meet your MPG value.
- The fuel usage parameter should be set to meet your real fuel usage.
- The distance parameter should be set to meet your real IG-ON distance.
- You can calculate your mileage using the fuel usage from the SuperMID and the Del Sol's trip meter.
- You can still refer to the engine-on mileage value.
- Please forget the SuperMID's mileage and distance value if you did some IGN-OFF technique.

That's my opinions.:)
Yoshi

Yoshi, This is not the final calibration. I just want to get close. The distance calibration will be done with mile parker posts on the highway and the fuel calibration will be completed after I compare this tank fill to what the Supermid says.

Thanks for you advice.

Dan

[Yoshi]

Yoshi, This is not the final calibration. I just want to get close. The distance calibration will be done with mile parker posts on the highway and the fuel calibration will be completed after I compare this tank fill to what the Supermid says.
Dan, thank you for comments.
I thought the 3% adjustment was for the IGN-OFF distance and it was almost right on on your first test (6.0 mile vs 6.01 mile display).

Anyway, looking forward to seeing the further test results.
Yoshi

[Matt Timion]

I've got a '95 F150 Ford with the I-6 EFI engine. I'm in Northern Canada where kilometres and litres are used, the truck speedometer and odometer are digital kilometres. Would the MID work for my truck?
MJ

In my opinion, absolutely. You'll have the added benefit of having KMs and liters already in your head.

From my understanding the SuperMID only attaches to one injector wire, but that's all that you really need in order to properly calibrate the system.

[krousdb]

I've got a '95 F150 Ford with the I-6 EFI engine. I'm in Northern Canada where kilometres and litres are used, the truck speedometer and odometer are digital kilometres. Would the MID work for my truck?
MJ

In my opinion, absolutely. You'll have the added benefit of having KMs and liters already in your head.

From my understanding the SuperMID only attaches to one injector wire, but that's all that you really need in order to properly calibrate the system.

Yes, one injector wire and the speed sensor wire.

[krousdb]

Just wanted to report on my first drive to work with the calibrated SuperMID. This is an interim calibration meant to get me close. The final calibrations will happen as I fill the tank and adjust for any error.

The trip distance showed 40.61 km, compared to my Prius distance of 41.04. The difference is probably due to the momentary IGN off during shut down. Half a km feels about right.

The FE was 22.23 km/L or 52.3 MPG. This feels abolut right to because the trip to work ends at a lower elevation so the trip back should be less and bring the number down between 51 and 52, where my last three tanks ended up. So the calibration seems close.

What is also worth mentioning is that it was quite cold this morning, about 15F when I left. Normally I would have expected to lose a few MPG due to the colder temps. But it seems that the EBH was able to offset the temp penalty. I plugged in the EBH at 5:30 AM and the cylinder head temp was 42F, as was the ambient temp in my garage. An hour later, I had consumed 380W of power at a cost of less than 4 cents. The cylinder head temp was up to 77F, or 35F over ambient. In earlier measurements over the weekend, the EBH is capable of raising the cylinder head temp about 43F above ambient after 1.5 hours. That seems to be steady state and there is no benefit in heating for longer.

I will follow up later today with data from the drive home.

[krousdb]

The drive home sucked! Wet roads, snow falling and a moderate headwind, 32F. The SuperMID said 47.5 MPG. Bleh. I wish I had somewhere to plug in the EBH at work. Thinking about using the battery to power my 400W inverter for the EBH about an hour before leaving work. Prolly drain the battery. meh

[Compaq888]

The drive home sucked! Wet roads, snow falling and a moderate headwind, 32F. The SuperMID said 47.5 MPG. Bleh. I wish I had somewhere to plug in the EBH at work. Thinking about using the battery to power my 400W inverter for the EBH about an hour before leaving work. Prolly drain the battery. meh

I'm desperate for a EBH too. I park my car outside so I can't have an EBH. Maybe you should buy another prius since the wife has yours or maybe just wait till the 3rd gen prius comes out.

[krousdb]

Maybe you should buy another prius since the wife has yours or maybe just wait till the 3rd gen prius comes out.

I have come to the conclusion that for my daily commute, a hybrid doeasn't make sense. I can come within 20% of the Prius mileage and I spent 1/5 of what a new hybrid. It would take a bazillion years to get a return on investment. I can also work on it myself. Much less complicated than a hybrid. And if I screw something up, parts are a dime a dozen to fix what I broke. It's a win-win stiuation for me. Plus my mieage is better than 80% of Prius and HCH drivers.

[Compaq888]

You can try installing the same device as in your prius in your car. It keeps the coolant warm up to 3 days. It should be in your front bumper on the left.(in the prius)

[Yoshi]

The trip distance showed 40.61 km, compared to my Prius distance of 41.04. The difference is probably due to the momentary IGN off during shut down. Half a km feels about right.

The FE was 22.23 km/L or 52.3 MPG. This feels abolut right to because the trip to work ends at a lower elevation so the trip back should be less and bring the number down between 51 and 52, where my last three tanks ended up. So the calibration seems close.
Thank you for your report.

I think the reading value "22.23 km/L or 52.3 MPG" was not accurate because the distance was not accurate if you used the IGN-OFF method.
The fuel usage can be accurate within 1% or less.

I believe it is better idea to record following numbers.
1. Trip distance from Del Sol
2. Fuel usage from SuperMID M-1
3. Calculate the mileage value using above two
4. Fuel usage from your digital meter for reference
5. Trip distance from SuperMID for reference
6. Parameters(Fuel/Distance) on SuperMID for reference

How do you think?
Yoshi

[krousdb]

The trip distance showed 40.61 km, compared to my Prius distance of 41.04. The difference is probably due to the momentary IGN off during shut down. Half a km feels about right.

The FE was 22.23 km/L or 52.3 MPG. This feels abolut right to because the trip to work ends at a lower elevation so the trip back should be less and bring the number down between 51 and 52, where my last three tanks ended up. So the calibration seems close.
Thank you for your report.

I think the reading value "22.23 km/L or 52.3 MPG" was not accurate because the distance was not accurate if you used the IGN-OFF method.
The fuel usage can be accurate within 1% or less.

I believe it is better idea to record following numbers.
1. Trip distance from Del Sol
2. Fuel usage from SuperMID M-1
3. Calculate the mileage value using above two
4. Fuel usage from your digital meter for reference
5. Trip distance from SuperMID for reference
6. Parameters(Fuel/Distance) on SuperMID for reference

How do you think?
Yoshi


Remember that because of the oversized tires, the odometer under registers by 3.4% So I would have to add 3.4% to the trip odometer and use the SuperMID fuel measurement to get the most accurate calculation.

[Yoshi]

Remember that because of the oversized tires, the odometer under registers by 3.4% So I would have to add 3.4% to the trip odometer and use the SuperMID fuel measurement to get the most accurate calculation.
I'm confused what the real distance was.
Is the 41.04 was the adjusted(3.4%) value from your Del Sol?
Would like to see raw values of distance, from M-1 and Del Sol.
I think your report on "Digital Fuel Gauge" thread was very systematic.

[krousdb]

I'm confused what the real distance was.
Is the 41.04 was the adjusted(3.4%) value from your Del Sol?
Would like to see raw values of distance, from M-1 and Del Sol.
I think your report on "Digital Fuel Gauge" thread was very systematic.


Yoshi,
The 41.04 value came from the SuperMID that was on the Prius. The round trip as measured by the SuperMID on the Prius was 83.43km or 51.73 miles. The distance was perfectly calibrated with a 50 mile of mileposts on various highways.

Since I have oversized tires on the del sol, the odometer under registers by 3.4% as calculated by the same milepost method.

The del sol odometer shows 49.75 miles for the round trip. When you adjust by 3.4% for the larger tires, that calculates to 51.44. So the difference between the 51.73 Prius measurement and the 51.44 del sol adjusted measurement would be the distance lost from IGnition off - on while coasting. I will just use the SuperMID figure, even though this will result in 3 miles of unregistered distance for each tank. That translates into 0.3 MPG lower than actual.

I hope that answers your question.

[Yoshi]

Dan, Thank you comments.
Let me clarify...
- The 41.04 km came from SuperMID from Prius before, and it was right on the actual.
- The 40.61 km came from current SuperMID setting.
- The 0.43 km difference was caused by the IGN-OFF method, but this was not sure.
- The 22.23 km/L came from current SuperMID setting where was the 40.61 km distance display.
- The fuel usage was 40.61 / 22.23 = 1.827 L
- The real (or the best estimated) mileage was 41.04 / 1.827 = 22.46 km/L = 52.85 MPG

This is my thought.
Yoshi

[krousdb]

Dan, Thank you comments.
Let me clarify...
- The 41.04 km came from SuperMID from Prius before, and it was right on the actual.
- The 40.61 km came from current SuperMID setting.
- The 0.43 km difference was caused by the IGN-OFF method, but this was not sure.
- The 22.23 km/L came from current SuperMID setting where was the 40.61 km distance display.
- The fuel usage was 40.61 / 22.23 = 1.827 L
- The real (or the best estimated) mileage was 41.04 / 1.827 = 22.46 km/L = 52.85 MPG

This is my thought.
Yoshi


Yes, everything you have written is correct.

[krousdb]

OK, so I ran one full tank for calibration purposes. As mentioned in other threads, I supected that my initial calibration was too low based on what the Digital Fuel Gauge was telling me. Well that indeed was the case. It took 10.851 gallons to reach the 2.5OHM mark on the DFG, which is where I filled my last tank to. The SuperMID said 22.38 km/L. That translates to 52.60 MPG. The actual FE was 54.4 MPG. So the SuperMID calibration was 3.4% low. So the final calibration involved increasing the fuel parameter by 3.4%. Considering some of the environmental conditions encountered during this tank, 54MPG is quite good. :-)

[krousdb]

Woot. That's very good, I hope the calibration sticks to being correct and whatnot, now you've got to go update all those trips you went by the MID with.

Doh! Yes, thanks for reminding me. The data do need to be updated so that they are accurate for comparison purposes.

[krousdb]

Tonight I added 10.042 gallons, which is what the SuperMID showed. The digital fuel gauge showed 2.5 OHMS which is where I filled it to last time. Since the 2.5 mark is the lowest that the gauge shows, there is a chance that it hit 2.5 OHMS before I got to 10.042 gallons so SuperMID probably isn't perfect dead on as the data might indicate. But it is pretty darn close.

- Miles Indicated (SuperMID) 571.8
- Gallons Indicated (SuperMID) 10.042
- MPG (SuperMID) 56.94

Not a bad tank, eh? Ave driving temp 30-35F. Can't wait for sustained warmer temps.

[MetroMPG]

glad the supermid is working out. question: what does its name mean?

and nice driving, krousdb! i like the way your gaslog is "trending".

the warm spell we had a week or so ago was a nice tease, wasn't it? i can't wait for some more of that.

[krousdb]

I have no idea what the name SuperMID means???

Yes the trend is nice. The first few days were in the 50'sF and I scored a few RT commutes at just over 60MPG. I had high hopes for this tank but then the teens and 20's came back for the AM trip and 20's and 30's for the PM trip. I was lucky to end up where I did. Once we get some warm temps back here in PA I promise to send it up North if you promise not to send any of your Canadian air down here. :)

[MetroMPG]

Once we get some warm temps back here in PA I promise to send it up North if you promise not to send any of your Canadian air down here. :)

deal!

besides, now that i've wrapped up nearly a week of afternoons on my back on the garage floor in 1 C temps, i'm sure it's bound to warm up anyway.

[Yoshi]

question: what does its name mean?

Hi all,

The MID stands for Multi Information Display.
I wanted to add something to that.
So, decided to call it SuperMID. :)

Yoshi

[Yoshi]

Hey yoshi, could you give me a rundown of all the parameters that the SuperMID monitors? I've been wondering about this recently. Thanks a ton.
Hi SVOboy,

input:
- injector pulse width
- speed pulse for distance

output:
- line1: instantaneous mileage, instantaneous fuel usage, injector pulse width
- line2: 1km avg mileage, timer(blinks every 5min), avg speed
- line 3: avg mileage, driving time, distance
- line 4: engin-on mileage, engine-on %, cannel name, fuel used.
- 5 channels are T(tank), A(trip-A), B(trip-B), L(lap - max 20 laps) and S(start - since power-on)

Please refer to following diplay menu...
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1883/m1menueng7of.jpg

Yoshi

[Yoshi]

So basically it only measures those two variables coming from the car and then you preset certain things like injector size and all that?
Yes. The distance and fuel parameter setting will adjust the variables.
Is it tapped into the injector signal lines coming from the ecu or what?
Yes. It is connected one of injector lines for fuel usage.
What method does it use to analyze the pulse width?
It uses the ICP or input capture function of Atmel ATmega8 microprocessor.
What language is the code written on for the chip that controls it?
An assembler of AVR Studio 4 by Atmel.

Yoshi

[ZiLg0]

It measures the pulse width of injector for the fuel usage.
If the vehicle goes to the fuel cut mode, the pulse width becomes zero.

Basically, the SuperMID M-1 works on any car which has fuel injectors and speed(distance) pulse output.

Do you know the pins for these signals from your ECU?

Yoshi

I am trying to figure my fuel consumption on an 1984 AMC Eagle.
My engine is an AMC258 Inline 6 carbureted, My question can I use your SuperMID device or am I still in the dark?
Thank you
Jeremy

[ajohnmeyer]

Sorry, it won't work in your AMC. the Super MID only works in cars with electronic Fuel injection, and more specifically, only with the Toyota Prius and certain Honda 4cyls.

You could try using a vacuum gauge (http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2008961/p-2008961/N-111+10201+600002121/c-10101/reviewflag-1) in your AMC though

[landspeed]

It is also known to work in Nissan CA series engines which were used from about 1984->1997 (as long as they have fuel injection) (Nissan Bluebirds etc), also Nissan Micra / Nissan March 1.0 / 1.3 litre twin cam engines. As I have tested it on two different Bluebirds and one Micra :)

So basically all Nissans should work with it.

[landspeed]

You could try using a vacuum gauge (http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2008961/p-2008961/N-111+10201+600002121/c-10101/reviewflag-1) in your AMC though

For what it is worth:

On my fuel injected Bluebird, the vacuum gauge was very closely related to the MPG. In 5th gear, no matter what speed I was going, a certain position on the vacuum gauge would equal a certain MPG, at 30 or 80mph.

In 4th gear, the same position of the vacuum gauge used more fuel (because the engine was turning faster). I got the best economy by changing gear ASAP as I accelerated. My final v. good economy was by 'lugging' from 800-1200rpm, then changing down, until I got to about 35mph in 5th, the cutting the engine until the speed drops back down to 25mph in 5th (which is about 800rpm). The RPM is one of the main things that has an effect on the MPG.

[cmlamb2vx]

Sorry, it won't work in your AMC. the Super MID only works in cars with electronic Fuel injection, and more specifically, only with the Toyota Prius and certain Honda 4cyls.

You could try using a vacuum gauge (http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2008961/p-2008961/N-111+10201+600002121/c-10101/reviewflag-1) in your AMC though

Hi. I'd like to find out if this will work with my 92 Civic VX? If so, how do go about purchasing?

[landspeed]

If you take a photo of the engine bay, that may help? (Or, maybe easier, people on this site might know if the car has injection or not).

The SuperMID will work in any car that has fuel injection (single or multipoint), although some cars have a weird two-injector 'single point' system that it won't currently work with.

You also need an electronic speed sensor - it may well be included somewhere on your car, or Yoshi sells plug-in ones if you don't have one.