valve adjustment

[1993CivicVX]

I'm beginning to feel like I'm wearing out out my tech help posts at this point. But the mechanic did a valve adjustment today. Now there is a "whum whum whum" to the idle, whereas the idle was pretty unnoticeable before. Could this be because of a poor job doing the valve adjustment or what? SVOboy- I just might have pay you a visit this weekend. Sheehkebobs almighty!

[SVOboy]

I'm not sure what a "whum whum whum" is, but a mechanic should be able to do a valve adjustment pretty easily. All it is is measuring and some turning wrenches. What else did he/she do?

[Danronian]

Sounds like something is wrong to me. If it is coming from the intake, it could be normal, but if this is coming from the timing belt area or from the valve cover, something is wrong.

To figure out where on the engine it is coming from, you can use a long piece of wood as a "mechanic's stethoscope" to figure out exactly what is making the noise. Just put your ear on the end of the long piece wood while the engine is running to hear the good and bad vibrations and noises coming from your motor.

Good luck.

[1993CivicVX]

I guess by "whum whum whum" it's something like what big truck diesel engines do - you can hear the revolutions of the motor. before it was pretty even and smooth. Now its "whum whum whum" wasn't that noticeable, but when I pulled into my driveway on the short drive back from teh mechanic i heard it.

The mechanic replaced the timing belt, alternator belt, valve cover gasket and replaced the resonator in the exhaust to fix the rattle. So at least the rattle is gone. He checked the water pump and said it looked fine. He didn't know of a waterpump ever going on a Honda, so i didn't replace it. All this ran me $500 even. part of why it was so expensive he said was because the alternator was so rusty and parts were seized. Sounded similar to my friend and my experience of freeing the ebrake parts on the rear brakes. Very seized they were. Fused together like one part. We spent nearly two hours just getting those parts to move freely again the way they were supposed to.

[SVOboy]

What a whiner about the alternator. It couldn't have been that bad...

I wonder what it is. Is the tach jumpy during the noise cycles?

[1993CivicVX]

no, it was just when i stopped the car after coming home.. left the engine idling and it was just kinda "whum whum whum" -usually sounds smoother--this sounded more like an older engine. like suddenly my engine got old hehe. I didn't look at the tach, I think it was where it should have been around 1k. I drive 56 miles round trip to school and back tomorrow -- I should have a better idea of exactly the sound of the noise and when it occurs by the time I get home tomorrow sometime in the afternoon.

[Danronian]

A hum at idle, after a timing belt change, is usually due to it being tensioned too tightly. The first belt I replaced, I had this mistake, but it is relatively easy to fix.

I have heard of a lot of water pumps going bad on Hondas...so that was a bad decision on your mechanic's part.

Rusty bolts can be expected really, though $500 is pretty average I would guess. A "cheap" timing belt replacement in my area, for a Honda, goes for around $300 including parts...so that's not that bad since you also replaced the resonator.

[Gary Palmer]

Dude: You really need to go see SVOboy. I don't know what sort of mechanic you took your car to, but if he hasn't ever known of a water pump going out on a Honda, he doesn't know what he's doing, IMO.

They do last a good long time and you can stretch your luck, but when it breaks it really sucks and you have to do almost all of the same work as when you had the timing belt replaced. I have HAD to replace one water pump on a Honda, when it choked and really died, bad. The car had about 180,000 on it.

Ever since then I replace the timing belt about every 50,000 and I replace the pump every 100,000. The parts are cheap, compared to down time and hassle and the pump is nothing to do, if your already doing the timing belt.

As far as the whine, it's probably not the tension on the timing belt. It probably is the tension on the alternator belt. The alternator sits right under the intake, on the drivers side. If the belt gets tightened, or if the alternator has a bearing which is drying out, then it will whine. Generally it won't hurt anything, but you can probably take a little tension off of the alternator and it might help it be a little quiter. Don't let it get to loose, or it starts flapping and it might not turn the alternator, under a load, like at night, when it's cold and rainy. I usually set it with about 1/2 inch of deflection, between the crankshaft and the alternator.

As far as taking advantage of tech help, ask away. Generally, most everyone on Gassavers does a lot or all of their own work, so it is a pretty good place to ask. Every once in awhile, their are some turkeys who are critical or arrogant, but for the most part were all trying to just get a reliable, cost effective ride. The VX is a great car, when you get the wrinkles shaken out, so don't give up, your just getting closer to an effective ride.

[1993CivicVX]

Thanks Gary for the input and encouraging words. Well, my mechanic is pretty young, so maybe he doesn't have so much experience. Now I wish I had done the water pump. Oh well. He did look at it and said it looked good. *shrug* I mentioned the idle sound to the mechanic and he said he thought the car sounded quieter after he finished the work on it. He also said the "whum whum whum" was probably from the valve adjustment because the valves are not hydraulic. I didn't really understand what he said, but he thought it was from the valve adjustment. I might bring my car to another mechanic who has more experience and a good reputation to see what he thinks about the various issues I'm having with the car. Sort of get a second opinion. This mechanic I've been seeing hasn't been too interested in taking the time to listen to my issues with the car.

Dan, he had originally quoted me $200 but said the parts were a little more than he expected (maybe because it is a VX?) and also said that because everything was seized up from rust it was harder to remove. On the bill he actually added 1/2 hour labour for dealing with the seized alternator while doing the alternator belt. He replaced the timing belt, alternator belt, did a valve adjustment, and replaced the valve cover gasket for $300.

I might pay SVOboy a visit this weekend. :D That would be grand.

[Fourthbean]

I thought non-hydraulic valve lifters were a thing of the fifties? Or is there something else that came out which is better that the VX engine uses? I remember scouring the internet trying to figure out if my car used hydraulic lifters, ended up it does.

[Gary Palmer]

Nah, on his Honda it has mechanical lifters and an overhead cam. It may well have a little bit of a clicking sound to it, particularly at idle. I would definitely recommend you go visit SVOboy. He can take a look and listen to your car and, most likely help you understand what you need to do to either fix it, or at least keep from getting taken advantage of.

On your water pump, it will probably be fine. It is reasonably likely that it has been previously replaced. It it starts to go out, it will start sounding like a bunch of marbles being rolled together, coming from the front of the engine. If it does that, get it replaced, irrespective of how long the timing belts been on. Other than that, if the seal goes out on the water pump, it can typically be driven for short distances, so long as you keep refilling the radiator, every time the temperature starts to climb unusually high. Don't try that for very far though, it is a recipe for disaster.

As far as mechanics go, if he doesn't have the time or inclination to talk to you, then I would find someone else. Good Luck.

[Fourthbean]

Ahh, the overhead cam. I didn't think about that factor.

[1993CivicVX]

Great! Thanks Gary et al.

[ffvben]

all the fords i worked for 14yrs you can crank down on the timing belt tensioner with no problems. when i switched to Nissan, and cranked on the tensioner, the timing belt sings at idle, you can't hear it running down the road just at very slow speeds. the belt can not be to tight or it will warble or a constant hoot sound. It's poss that the Honda could be the same for t belt tension.

[wombosi]

hey 93VX,

you gotta get yourself a new mechanic bro! this guy's bad news!

go see SVOBOY.

[1993CivicVX]

^^^^^^ this is the guy that did my brakes!! ^^^^^^^ Let's give it up for ... "wombosi" haha, hey man.

thanks ffvben, yeah, it could be the timing belt. SVOboy-- following weekend we wang if you so wish. This weekend I am participating in the Josh Billings Runaground triathlon in my hometown.

[1993CivicVX]

sounds like change jingling if I go up a hill in too high a gear (so to cause the engine to lug) is that normal? I don't recall it doing this before, although engine noise was often drowned out by the rattle before having the valve adjustment, belts and rattle fixed.

[TomO]

I get a little of that sound as I load down the motor in a high gear as well. I'll check my valve lash tonight (hopefully) and get back to you on if it's adjusted properly or not.

[SVOboy]

It sounds like your valve lash is off or mehbe the timing. My mom's car did the tin can jingle when the timing belt skipped a tooth.

[Danronian]

sounds like change jingling if I go up a hill in too high a gear (so to cause the engine to lug) is that normal? I don't recall it doing this before, although engine noise was often drowned out by the rattle before having the valve adjustment, belts and rattle fixed.

To me this sounds like pinging which can be due to bad fuel or the timing too advanced. In my VX I always had to use mid-grade fuel so that it wouldn't ping when going up hills with the RPMs low. But since this just happened after your timing belt install, it sounds to me like the timing could be off a tooth, or possibly the distributer timing is off a bit. You could try adjusting the timing with the distributer and a timing light first, and then if the car is still not running as good as it was before, suspect the timing belt being installed a tooth-off.

Good luck.

[TomO]

I just finished the test drive after adjusting my valve lash tonight...
I go on the tight side of spec for both intake and exhaust valves. I noticed a slight "whum whum whum" diesel after the adjustment, normal stuff when you go tight on spec though. The rattle under heavy load could be you hearing the exhaust due to a small leak at a seal or, if you have aftermarket single wall pipe you can hear the exhaust ever more slightly. My car does this a little bit due to a cruddy donut seal at the header and Cat.

Basically, as long as the noises don't get louder, you'll be fine.

[1993CivicVX]

Just wanted to say the car hasn't been hesitating anymore. Still has small power surge from time to time, but prolly an o2 sensor. if it gets bad I'll replace the o2 sensor, but for now the car is really running near flawlessly. The only thing still is the same things I've said forty times over: surging idle and sticking RPM when shifting etc. It actually has stalled several times lately. Originally the mechanic had quoted me $140 for used throttle body installed, now he is telling me it isn't available locally and the throttle body alone will be $140 (so $200 installed) Not sure if he is just saying this because he realized new ones are expensive and he could be charging me more. Might ask another mechanic on Monday. Would be nice to have the car purring without any quid pro quo. But I feel the valve adjustment really helped!

[SVOboy]

Don't pay to have a tb installed. Buy one online for like 10 bucks at most and DIY or come up here and I'll help.

[1993CivicVX]

Don't pay to have a tb installed. Buy one online for like 10 bucks at most and DIY or come up here and I'll help.

haha! I like you for that. Yeah, man, next weekend! would be grand. The mechanic also offered tweaking the already tampered throttle body to see if we couldn't fix the problem that way -- but I don't think we'd be able to fix the surging idle. Btw, what do you want as compensation? You end up bringing your tools up?