Wouldn't it be better to have a valve cover breather rather than having a tube going from the valve cover back to the intake???

[Compaq888]

Would it be better for the engine to have a valve cover breather and a breather on the intake???

Also would this create a vacuum leak?

[Matt Timion]

I'm thinking it will create a vacuum leak. It's also bad to remove this because you won't be able to expell the oil particles in the crankcase, which will hurt your engine in the long run.

If you really want to prevent the oil from re-entering the engine through the intake, install a catch-can inline with the crankcase ventilation and the PCV line.

[Sludgy]

Breathers were common 40 years ago, but they were phased out to reduce crankcase emissions which, as I remember, were very significant.....about 30% of total uncontrolled emissions. Adding a breather and removing the PCV valve would be VERY bad for the environment.

The simple breathers were replaced with PCV valves. The PCV valve keeps the crankcase relatively free of water vapor, and the oil last slonger and there is less engine corrosion.

I vote to leave the PCV in.

[SVOboy]

I vote to leave the PCV in.

Yo tambien. Creo que el medio ambiente es mas importante que su coche de mierda.

[Compaq888]

Breathers were common 40 years ago, but they were phased out to reduce crankcase emissions which, as I remember, were very significant.....about 30% of total uncontrolled emissions. Adding a breather and removing the PCV valve would be VERY bad for the environment.

The simple breathers were replaced with PCV valves. The PCV valve keeps the crankcase relatively free of water vapor, and the oil last slonger and there is less engine corrosion.

I vote to leave the PCV in.

What the hell are you talking about??? Nobody mentioned anything about a PVC. I said valve cover. You know the hose that goes from the valve cover to the intake. That one.

[Matt Timion]

What the hell are you talking about??? Nobody mentioned anything about a PVC. I said valve cover. You know the hose that goes from the valve cover to the intake. That one.


Why such hostility? I don't know how you're going to get people to help you if you're always rude to them.

[SVOboy]

If I remember correctly the hose that goes from the valve cover to the intake is the pcv line.

[Matt Timion]

If I remember correctly the hose that goes from the valve cover to the intake is the pcv line.

That would be incorrect, but it's a very common mistake. No need for anyone to be all hostile over a common mistake.

[SVOboy]

The pcv line has the charcoal canister on it already, right? Squarey looking black thing on the b2?

[diamondlarry]

If I remember correctly the hose that goes from the valve cover to the intake is the pcv line.

That would be incorrect, but it's a very common mistake. No need for anyone to be all hostile over a common mistake.

It seems to me that I've heard that the hose being discussed is used for some type of a balancing effect for the PCV system. Is this correct?

[Matt Timion]

The pcv line has the charcoal canister on it already, right? Squarey looking black thing on the b2?

<a href = "http://estore.honda.com/images/parts/catalogs/EA/13SH401/Estore/illustrations2/SH43E0800.png" target = "_blank" border = "1"><img src = "http://estore.honda.com/images/parts/catalogs/EA/13SH401/Estore/illustrations2/SH43E0800.png" width = "400"></a>

<p>Click the above image for a bigger shot. The PCV Valve is #8.</p>

[Compaq888]

The part I'm talking about is in this picture... I have a red line pointing to it.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/Compaq888/catchcan.jpg

As you can see the hose goes from the valve cover to the intake tube. The fumes and the oil gets sucked in the Throttle body. If you put a catch can in that area the only thing that will get sucked from the valve cover is the fumes, not the oil. The PVC is a completly different thing. It's in the back of the motor under the intake manifold. I'm not messing with the PVC, all I'm doing is preventing the oil from going back into the engine.

[Sludgy]

The PCV valve sucks air into the crankcase. The air that is sucked in usually comes from a hose from the valve cover, which is connected to either a dedicated filter, or betweeen the air filter and the throttle body.

If you just disconnect the duct in your picture, the PCV valve will suck unfiltered air into the crankcase, which is not good for the oil or the engine. The way to prevent this is to simultaneously disconnect the PCV valve. This is why I discussed the PCV valve earlier. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I think we all need to switch to caffeine-free cola.

[Compaq888]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/Compaq888/Catchcan2.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/Compaq888/Catchcan1.jpg

As you can see I went to home depot and bought the stuff for the vlave cover catch can. It will fit my hoses perfectly. The only problem is they only had enough stuff for one side. So I need to buy for the second side later on and just attach to the car. I spent $30, and the other side will be $18. SO basically $50 for a good catch can. I'm now thinking it would of been better to just pick up the greedy catch can that is $70 and made for the car.

[JanGeo]

Hey the hose to the air cleaner is both a fresh air supply and excess pressure vent. The PCV draws air through the crankcase while there is vacuum to remove and gasoline fumes in the crank and blowby and it takes air in from the hose going to the air cleaner to provide clean air into the crankcase. In the even that there is full throttle applied and no vacuum and or a lot of blowby past the rings then the crankcase fumes may not be able to flow through the PCV and they then vent into the intake of the carb/intake manifold air cleaner to be sucked into the engine otherwise you blow the oil pan or engine seals out. Combustion pressure is a lot higher than the compression pressure.

[SVOboy]

Damn those brass ****ers are expensive. The filter was only 12 bucks?

[Matt Timion]

It looks to me like you bought the wrong brass fittings for the filter. You should be able to get standard hose fittings designed for air tools for about $1-2 each. The whole catch can shouldn't cost more than $15-20.

The more I've been thinking about it you really need to put this on your PCV valve, and not your crankcase. The crankcase is where air comes IN, and the PCV valve is where it goes back out into the intake manifold. All that you'll be doing by putting the filter on the crankcase hose is filtering the air that goes into the crankcase.

If you really want to filter the air out of the intake manifold, you'll put this in line with the pcv line.

Oh, and return the brass fitting and get the cheap ones. There is no need to spend $18 on a brass fitting.

[Compaq888]

The filter was $12

[SVOboy]

Sweet, you just went to home depot and went to the air compressor section and there it was?

[Compaq888]

You guys are confusing me. Where am I suppose to put this thing???

Here is a pic of my PVC valve. It's top right corner. Just point in the picture where I'm suppose to put the filter in.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/Compaq888/SAVE0001.jpg

[Compaq888]

Ok, I researched it more and the jar is suppose to go between the PVC and the intake manifold. The flow of the air is toward the intake manifold, away from the PVC. I'll go return the fittings and put this bad boy inline with the PVC.

[Matt Timion]

Sweet, you just went to home depot and went to the air compressor section and there it was?

Exactly. I'm actually going to a hardware store in a few minutes to get a set of fittings.

Read the DIY in the DIY section about this puppy.

[SVOboy]

I will do this soon. Right now my money is occupied since I just bought vx rimzzz!

[rh77]

As usual, I'm joining the convo late, but...

The breathers are known for causing excessive oil consumption, and have become a popular add-on lately, mostly for looks -- not recommended.

I've been using the PCV catch tube for about 2 months (the one that's posted on here in the DIY section). It's less than 10-bucks at the hardware store. So far, I haven't emptied mine, and it's half-full of crud. Makes you think about what the PCV dumps back into the system.

RH77

[Compaq888]

I'm going to install it as soon as I can get the car lifted.

rh77 you got any pics of your setup?

[JanGeo]

shouldn't there be less of that crud in the breather if you run acetone to burn the gas better and thus keep the oil cleaner?

[diamondlarry]

shouldn't there be less of that crud in the breather if you run acetone to burn the gas better and thus keep the oil cleaner?

I would probably say yes and no. The acetone will probably make for a more efficient burn but if the rings are bad and there is a lot of blow-by that could cause a bunch of breather crud.

[JanGeo]

My brother was saying the other day that the rings and pistons are so tight in the newer cars that the oil stays very clean even when it is time to change it. If you guys are pulling engines all the time - bust the glaze in the cylinders and if needed pop in a new set of rings. Makes all the diference in the world.

[kickflipjr]

You can buy catch cans off ebay for $25 shipped. I was thinking about getting one.

Ebay Link here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-OIL-CATCH-RESERVOIR-TANK-CAN-CIVIC-88-00-92-96-ALL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46098QQitemZ8038607 788QQrdZ1)

[diamondlarry]

You can buy catch cans off ebay for $25 shipped. I was thinking about getting one.

Ebay Link here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-OIL-CATCH-RESERVOIR-TANK-CAN-CIVIC-88-00-92-96-ALL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46098QQitemZ8038607 788QQrdZ1)

That's not a bad deal at all. You can't hardly mess with building one for the price shown; even if you have to pay the full $10.99. I'm going to Walmart today to look into the Campbell Hausfield air filter and, unless it's significantly lower priced, I'll come home and order one of these. What is the tube that runs down the side of the Ebay unit?

[diamondlarry]

My brother was saying the other day that the rings and pistons are so tight in the newer cars that the oil stays very clean even when it is time to change it. If you guys are pulling engines all the time - bust the glaze in the cylinders and if needed pop in a new set of rings. Makes all the diference in the world.

I was thinking more along the lines of an engine that already has a couple hundred thousand miles on it. Maybe a catch can could help extend it's life for awhile longer.

[SVOboy]

What is the tube that runs down the side of the Ebay unit?

Let's you see how much junk is in there so you know when to empty it, ;)

[diamondlarry]

What is the tube that runs down the side of the Ebay unit?

Let's you see how much junk is in there so you know when to empty it, ;)

I thought so but that seemed like too easy of an answer. I'm assuming that the fitting at the bottom is for emptying then.

[SVOboy]

I thought so but that seemed like too easy of an answer. I'm assuming that the fitting at the bottom is for emptying then.

You sir are correct.

[diamondlarry]

You sir are correct.

I knew it had to happen eventually. Darn, I used up my one time for the year and it's only February. :D

[Matt Timion]

That's not a bad deal at all. You can't hardly mess with building one for the price shown; even if you have to pay the full $10.99. I'm going to Walmart today to look into the Campbell Hausfield air filter and, unless it's significantly lower priced, I'll come home and order one of these. What is the tube that runs down the side of the Ebay unit?

It looks to me like the tube is an indicator to know how full the catch can is.

[diamondlarry]

After my trip to Walmart I think I may build my own unit. They had the water filter for $11.94. I'll have to get fittings from Lowe's cause Wallyworld didn't have the ones I needed. I don't think they will be more than $14 bucks so I think building my own will be cheaper. The only thing is that the CH water filter is very small and I'll just have to keep an eye on it.

[Compaq888]

Just empty out the filter at every oil change. That is how I plan to do it. Besides it's small and compact so nobody is going to find it unless they really look for it. That is a really good feature for a smog test.

[diamondlarry]

Just empty out the filter at every oil change. That is how I plan to do it. Besides it's small and compact so nobody is going to find it unless they really look for it. That is a really good feature for a smog test.

Since I'm using a quart of oil about every 2-3 weeks, I may need to check it every time I fill up with gas. Actually, everyone should do a quick check under the hood that often anyway.

[Compaq888]

I'm going to put mine right next to the oil filter. I have smog, so all my stuff has to be hidden. So far my motor doesn't eat up any oil.

You should place yours in a visible place.

[iburnh2o]

Up until the early 60's the blow-by gases were simply vented out of the engine and into the air. California Governor Jerry Brown obtained a patent on a device called the Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve or PCV valve. He mandated its usage in California as a way to reduce smog and it started to become part of the standard design of car engines.

On my vehicles I have one line from air cleaner, with a small filter, that is the inlet to the pcv/crankcase system. Another hose on opposite valve cover holds the pcv and runs to manifold vac. While the converted filter separator for compressed air works ok and will catch oil it is limited in capacity. (On supercharged Ford Lightning pickups I've had to run two in a series.) A better solution is a Condensator which can be bought at condensatorsales.com and elsewhere. It claims to crack the heavy stuff as well as just separate it out. Further cracking can be seen by adding hydrogen before the pcv jar.

You can make your own simply, free plans here: http://herning.crosswinds.net/projects/PCV.html

or google for pcv jar.

I took mine a step further and actually have a 6-8" vacuum in the oil pan whenever the engine is running. Much like a racing vacuum pump would do but without the pump and associated parasitic losses. This aids ring sealing, and oil drainage/control in the pan. It also helps boil off any fuel and moisture in the oil pan more quickly.
I did this by sealing off the air inlet hose from the air fliter housing so that additional air is not allowed into the system. Doing so also boosted idle/cruise vacuum by 1-2". I have a custom pcv valve that balances the vacuum so that it doesn't go too high. If you get carried away you can actually pull enough vacuum on deceleration to dent the pan inward and sometimes into the crank! I've also done a setup with an adjustable pcv valve that was sold as the "Clean Air Valve". It worked better than an OEM valve but not as well as my current setup.

http://highstrangeness.tv/articles/empower/empower.php


cheers

[rh77]

I'm going to install it as soon as I can get the car lifted.

rh77 you got any pics of your setup?

Yup...

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL698/4382742/9261619/129855730.jpg

It's the Campbell Hausfeld setup with the hardware all-included in the package.

RH77

[Compaq888]

nice setup. It looks like I might have to wait to put it on at the same time as my PVC. That area is so unaccesable. Mine has the intake manifold right over it.

[DaX]

The PCV line goes to what you're calling the black box, SVO. The black box on the back of the B2 is not a charcoal canister...it's just a vacuum plenum. The charcoal canister is a cylinder mounted on the firewall of the Civics.

On Civics, the line going from the valve cover to the intake is part of the PCV system. Whoever said this replaced the breather to reduce crank case emissions is right...that's what the whole PCV system is for. When the PCV is inhaling through the crank case, the fresh air that is rushed in comes into the valve cover through this line from the intake BEFORE the throttle body [hence, no vacuum on this line]. The problem with a breather is that at high load [low vacuum], the PCV isn't really sucking anything, so emissions can bellow out of this place if you have a breather. With it routed to the intake [like stock], these emissions just go right back into the engine.

Don't believe me? This effect is amplified on a turbo car. When my Civic was turbocharged, I was running a breather [can't be sucking back in any gross emissions into a turbocharged engine :p]. When I was dynoing my car and began to get into high RPM's and boost, you could see the emissions billowing out of the breather...it was amazing.

[Compaq888]

tried to replace the PVC valve on the back of the engine it wouldn't budge. The line from the intake manifold to the breather/separator turned out to be a metal line that had a rubber hose on top of it. It looks like I have to remove the breather/separator to make things easier. This stupid system is jammed up in there. I barely got the thing to move. Even if I remove the oil filter it won't make anything easier. It would be easier to just remove the breather/separator and take out the PCV valve and put another one on. I can't even install the PVC catch can because of the stupid metal line.

Not only are modern cars more complicated but I haven't seen any big changes in gas mileage from 10 years ago. Then what's the point of having all these damn sensors???? Most of the time it's not even the mechanical part that breaks it's the damn sensors that monitor the mechanical part.

[Matt Timion]

Not only are modern cars more complicated but I haven't seen any big changes in gas mileage from 10 years ago. Then what's the point of having all these damn sensors???? Most of the time it's not even the mechanical part that breaks it's the damn sensors that monitor the mechanical part.

This is a common misconception that I also used to hold, until I looked at it from a different point of view.

Cars are more complicated, and it seems that the actual MPG figures have not changed in the past 20 years. The truth is, however, that they have. Standard cars have gained a lot of weight, been outfitted with bigger engines, and probably lost some aerodynamic features as well. All of this being said they still get the same gas mileage.

The gas mileage HAS gotten better in these cars. Where they manufacturers went wrong however was in using this technology to build BIGGER cars. I guess they were just following the market (thanks Joe Typical American), but it's still unfortunate.

This is where we benefit as gassavers. We can combine older cars with newer technology... you know, do the things that the auto manufacturers were afraid to do, or just never did.

[Compaq888]

Not only are modern cars more complicated but I haven't seen any big changes in gas mileage from 10 years ago. Then what's the point of having all these damn sensors???? Most of the time it's not even the mechanical part that breaks it's the damn sensors that monitor the mechanical part.



This is where we benefit as gassavers. We can combine older cars with newer technology... you know, do the things that the auto manufacturers were afraid to do, or just never did.

Good point but I have a heavy young car, so I'm just a regular Joe Blow. What you're mainly saying is combining old honda chassis with new honda technology. Old hondas were light. If you put new technology not only will it be faster but gain quite a few of mpg. For the other people that have fairly young cars we got to go the extra step in modifying our cars because we already have the new technology we just got to do what you guys with old cars already have is low weight. So the difference between us is just weight once you guys have the new technology in your cars.

[SVOboy]

So the difference between us is just weight once you guys have the new technology in your cars.

And about a liter you can't get rid of as well as 150hp for no reason. Not to mentioned transmissions have gotten shorter for honda, :p

[Compaq888]

So the difference between us is just weight once you guys have the new technology in your cars.

And about a liter you can't get rid of as well as 150hp for no reason. Not to mentioned transmissions have gotten shorter for honda, :p

I need the 2.4 liter because the car is extremly heavy. I will still find ways to improve fuel economy. I'm still at 40psi and I still haven't used the auto-rx. Not to mention once I get a new air hose the flow will get better.

[Matt Timion]

I need the 2.4 liter because the car is extremly heavy. I will still find ways to improve fuel economy. I'm still at 40psi and I still haven't used the auto-rx. Not to mention once I get a new air hose the flow will get better.

I think there is a misconception that people "NEED" bigger engines. Many other manufacturers have the same weight (if not heavier) cars on smaller engines. Hondas from the same time period as your car had 1.6L or 1.8L engines in them.

You really only need about 10HP to drive around town, and about 20HP to maintain speeds on the freeway.

This is a lot like when I had my 4.0L Jeep. I didn't NEED that big of an engine, but I still had it. The car wasn't heavy, I wasn't climbing rock faces or towing anything. The car just had it because that's what jeeps have.

If you put a smaller engine in your car (even a 2.0) I bet that the difference would be minimal.

[Compaq888]

I need the 2.4 liter because the car is extremly heavy. I will still find ways to improve fuel economy. I'm still at 40psi and I still haven't used the auto-rx. Not to mention once I get a new air hose the flow will get better.

I think there is a misconception that people "NEED" bigger engines. Many other manufacturers have the same weight (if not heavier) cars on smaller engines. Hondas from the same time period as your car had 1.6L or 1.8L engines in them.

You really only need about 10HP to drive around town, and about 20HP to maintain speeds on the freeway.

This is a lot like when I had my 4.0L Jeep. I didn't NEED that big of an engine, but I still had it. The car wasn't heavy, I wasn't climbing rock faces or towing anything. The car just had it because that's what jeeps have.

If you put a smaller engine in your car (even a 2.0) I bet that the difference would be minimal.

Maybe I'll be like you guys and in the future do an engine swap for a more economical more powerful engine. There are already 2.0 engines that get better fuel economy than mine and have 50 more hp. That engine is in the new civic SI and RSX type S. The current 2.4 liters already have 160hp and get 24 for city and 34 for freeway. So far I can match that but barely. What I really need is engine management. Not only I'd have more power but i'd have better fuel economy. Maybe get some taller tires.

[SVOboy]

Engine management on a stock car won't get you much really. I mean you could lean it out to 20:1 but you'd have no power and your engine would die relatively quickly. The k24 isn't really a miracle engine either, I'm kind of meh on it because for only 160 hp you can do a lot better for gas mileage.

[Compaq888]

Right now i'm doing 22-23 on the street and 32-33 on the freeway. Find me a car that is the same age with a 2.4 and a automatic???

Engine management on a stock car has been shown to get 30-40whp. Example. Some shop put a AEM EMS on a 240sx that had a intake and after they dynoed it with the EMS it gained 40whp. The car comes stock with 160hp. Which is about 130whp, so 170whp is a huge difference.

[SVOboy]

I'd like to see this stock car that gained 40 whp.

Also, my point is that a 2.4 is not necessary. Honda has put 2.0 in there trucks in the past and never heard a peep saying it wasn't enough.

[Compaq888]

I'd like to see this stock car that gained 40 whp.

Also, my point is that a 2.4 is not necessary. Honda has put 2.0 in there trucks in the past and never heard a peep saying it wasn't enough.


You know nissan, they like to go big. Maybe they are trying to take the attention away from the crappy interior.LOL