High FE MiniVan? Is there such a thing?

[oneinchsidehop]

It looks like I'm going to be changing work, if not just plain old out of work.:(

If that happens the best thing I have to tide me over is re-selling things on eBay... and a mini van would really help. The subu2 doesn't get great mileage (21.8 best so far) so I don't think it's gonna be that hard to beat.

Is there something else that seats 4+ and has a LOT of luggage room that would be better? We're about 2 month from the "cars for sale" season here in New England, so I'm trying to plan ahead. Anything I buy now I can really beat them down on and my Subu2 is at the peak of it's market value for the year.

Ideas?

[civic94]

you could try the mazda5, if your price range is lower, the older toyota sienna can get about low 20's combined. stay away from the 1st gen honda odyossey's with the 4 cylinder accord engines. theyre way too underpowered

[theclencher]

The only minivan I've ever heard of to give better mpg than average, and better than your subie, are the "dustbuster" GM minivans with the 3.8. Owners report high 20's, even 30 mpg. I have no personal experience with them, but I do know that the 3.8 delivers effortless power with better than usual economy.

All the others I thought of- Quest, Villager, MPV, etc., suck gas just as bad as the subie.

[SD26]

Someone on here reported doing 30MPG on the Mazda version of the 2008 Ford Escape. I've driven some Escapes, and I kind of like they way they feel. I'm not giving up our Focus anytime soon, but that might be something to look at.

[DarbyWalters]

R U going to be doing more Highway miles than City miles?

[James]

The 4cyl 2000 dodge caravan i drive for work gets 23 mpg with snow tires in cold weather. It could probably manage 26-27 in warmer weather with lrr tires. It has a sucky tranny that revs fairly high above 55mph.

I was looking at those dustbuster gm minivans the other day. I bet it does pretty well in a wind tunnel. you could probably pick one of those up cheaply! I like the GM 3.8. My 89 olds 88 had that engine, it was super powerful and i could get 29-33 on the highway with 4 passengers and luggage. You would want to avoid the luxury version of that minivan of course, cause all the electronics would be broken by now or would break soon.

[Bruce]

Best from http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byEPAclass.htm :

2008 - Mazda 5 4 cyl, 2.3 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular (28 hwy)
2006 - Honda Odyssey 6 cyl, 3.5 L, Automatic 5-spd, VCM, Regular (26 hwy)
2005 - Honda Odyssey 6 cyl, 3.5 L, Automatic 5-spd, Regular (26 hwy)
2004 - Toyota Sienna 2WD 6 cyl, 3.3 L, Automatic 5-spd, Regular (25 hwy)
2003 - Chrysler Voyager/Town and Country 2WD 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular (25 hwy)
2003 - Dodge Caravan 2WD 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular (25 hwy)

Newer definitely buys you better FE. You should be able to do high 20s - low 30s if you hypermile it, perhaps more with aero mods.

- Bruce

[Lug_Nut]

Four+ pasengers and cargo room can return higher than the Sube's 22 mpg, but what are you willing to give up in return?
Does it have to be a minivan? Would a tall wagon be suitable instead?
Will you miss the AWD?
How far into the past and lack of passive restraint technology are you willing to go?
Would you accept the same space as the Sube, but at double the mpg?
Would you accept double the space at the same mpg?

[itjstagame]

Yeah, I'm surprised you're getting lower than EPA with your subie for a mostly highway looking commute. It's all tuend up and LRR tires and such? Will you miss the AWD, did you buy it for that reason? FWD does pretty good, especially on a heavy van, but it's a fair question and probably the main thing sapping your milage.

How big of items do you have to haul? And do you need both the big hauling AND 4 people at the same time? Because a Ford Focus wagon or Toyota Matrix or that type of thing may suite your needs. Or you can look for an older, medium sized wagon. Like a Taraus wagon I think would get 25-30MPG or more, or an Escort 5 door thing.

I know some minivan type things approach 30MPG but most get 20ish so avoiding a minivan would be nicer. I've also seem 30MPG type figured from that Ford hybrid SUV and that Toyota hybrid SUV (that is if you have money and want to deal with hybrid). To me 30MPG in those applications is more impressive than 45MPG in a Prius.

EDIT: or get a Passat diesel, wow! you're getting some awesome MPG there!

[Project84]

Saturn Vue w/ the 4-cylinder engine and 5-speed transmission... people have gotten over 30mpg with them and they're VERY reliable. Just avoid the CVT transmission (automatic that they mated to the 4-cylinder engines. Also, from 2003 on up, the V6 was I believe a 3.5L and I KNOW it was a Honda engine... high 20's with that and PLENTY of power for the interstate merges.

I've driven all 3 models, 4 cyl 5 speed, 3.0L auto, and 3.5L honda powered.... the 4 cylinder performs well for the size of the vehicle, the 3.0L is the gas hog, the 3.5L impressed and WOW'ed me with its sheer power.

then...

I drove a Subaru Forrester.

If you can find a Forrester w/ the 5-speed.... GET THE FORRESTER. Although big, it will feel like you're driving an Impreza compared to the Vue feeling unsafely rolling around turns.

The Forrester will fit the bill for the luggage room... it's got PLENTY. Will seat 5 comfortably, and even in older used models you can find heated seats, OEM block warmers, and the SUNROOF is distinctly AMAZING.

I was shopping for an SUV, although I didn't need one, I wanted to get out of my Saturn Sedan and into something I could literally take anywhere (looking at luggage room, passanger comfort) the Forrester is what I WOULD'VE purchased had my mindset not changed.

just my 2 cents!

[JESSE69]

At first I thought my used 1999 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 3.3L Flex Fuel was crap - it gets crappy city mpg of 14 to 18 mpg. But on a highway road trip Chicago to Decatur at 65 mph it got 25.8 mpg. Don't know why on Sunday I got only 20.5 hwy [worst case], then today to work I got 26.6 hwy and 27 hwy going home. So these hwy mpg numbers are real good when they compare to the new Odyssey which claims 26 to 28 mpg hwy. But a new Odyssey with a tow package can tow 4500 lbs - something I need! I just can't afford paying $31,000 for one new though.

[Snax]

For hauling cargo, you might rule out the Mazda5 and Escape/Mariner if you need to carry passengers at the same time. One nice thing about the 5 however is that the 2+2+2 seating arrangement allows allot of flexibility in where people and cargo can ride.

[AmmoCatcher]

I have a 1999 Plymouth Grand Voyager with the 3.8. Here in Western PA it is difficult for me to get more than 22 mpg :( (mixed mode driving 35.6 miles round trip, 6 grade changes, 8 stops, snow tires and low 20 degree temps). However, when I drove it to Florida, highway miles the whole way I was able to clock 31 mpg without trying too hard. My wife drove it back north and still got 25 mpg. (she refuses to hypermile)

There is potential there, but I can do 40+ religeously in my honda, so the van is strictly cold weather transport for me, or backup family vehicle if my wife's Hyundai goes into the shop.

[michaelwoodcock]

i LOVE toyota Previa vans. They get super miles per gallon, and you can swap in a few different engines to get what you really want in there. If you have ever heard of the previa, you will know that they can get like, 220,000 miles with out any problems. The trouble now adays is finding one that doesn't already have 300,000 miles. If you can find a low mileage one, without any rust, i highly reccoment it!

[skewbe]

Does the scion XB count as a minivan? Janjeo does a respectable 37 mpg in his, 5 speed, and probably pull out the rear seats/whatnot.

http://www.gassavers.org/garage/view/23

Course I need to plug the older saturn 5 speed wagons here, I get 50mpg with mine in the good weather, carrys all kinds of stuff, and a $200 menards trailer handles everything it can't haul with ease.

[JESSE69]

I think the Previa had poor crash protection that would break your legs!

Yeah, for a Dodge, the 3.8L is way better than the 3.3L ; you can tow and accelerate better, and mpg is same or even better than the 3.3L.

[Ryland]

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byEPAclass.htm
lets you sort by vehicle class, so you can compare all mini vans of a year, but personly, I would go with something like the XB as well, but really, what are your needs? total people, total cargo, cargo size, miles per year.

[oneinchsidehop]

Thanks guys, I've been reading intently and shopping but not posting much.

I think what I need is like a (eek) Grand Caravan. You can leave one kid seat in the back and still have approx. 4x4x4 feet of cargo space. I would really prefer and older Saturn SW1 for FE, but it's the same (cargo) size as what I have now. Another possible option is a stripped Metro, no room for kids but would work for me and cargo. High FE and (IMO) cool.

So right now a stripped Metro plus the Subu-two is the goal, as it seems to be the cheapest route, although I've seen mini vans cheap. Never have I found a manual trans though.:confused:

Thanks again.

Anyone wanna buy a gashog?;)

[Snax]

Oh just bite the bullet and get yourself one of those Ford Excursions. ;)

[SD26]

With the diesel, it might be the same mileage.

[JanGeo]

I have friends with a Grand Caravan V6 auto with about 120k miles on it getting pretty tired now but with the ScanGauge1 on it I drove it to boston Logan and got 29mpg highway and about 27 coming back fully loaded with 3 adults including me and 3 kids and all their luggage. It burns about .6gph at idle so don't stop if you can avoid it. This is without any "modifications" to it, just the family beater with 38psi in the tires (recomended pressure).

The 2006 xB is also a good choice for hauling a lot of weight and not killing yourself if you have to turn - really stiff suspension and great mileage as you know - getting 37 in lousy winter short trip conditions and 43-45 mpg if the trip is more than a few miles. This is with a good break in and Synlube so you have to factor that in as well. Not much trunk space with the back seat up but plenty if down and a low back end to load easy and the rear seat can be removed pretty easy but I have not done that yet - it is even carpeted under the seat. The price is what can't be beat however sticker was about 16,500 new delivered. The 2008 is bigger - bigger trunk - bigger engine and lower mileage but I have not seen on up close yet.

[Three6Eight]

The only minivan I've ever heard of to give better mpg than average, and better than your subie, are the "dustbuster" GM minivans with the 3.8. Owners report high 20's, even 30 mpg. I have no personal experience with them, but I do know that the 3.8 delivers effortless power with better than usual economy.

All the others I thought of- Quest, Villager, MPV, etc., suck gas just as bad as the subie.

I'm not just saying this because I own one but the 3800 is one is probably the sweetest engine when it comes to good power and Fuel economy. My Buick has the Supercharged version and even with some mods it can pull off 30+ on road trips.

I dont see a reason why vans with the 3800 shouldnt be able to pull 25+

If your rich those Sprinter vans get 25+

[Baranfin]

is your subie a Manual? If you do and it is higher mileage and your just getting low 20s for mpg I think there must be something wrong mechanically on it.

I love the subarus, but they do have a list of things that can hurt (mpg and $wise) 1st if you havent had it tuned up (wpump, timing belt, plugs wires) I would try that, also they are known for weeping oil from any location they can... check your rear diff, that went out on my last legacy at 130k, and i was getting REALLY bad mpg before it went. Also I dont know about legacys, but the 1st gen Foresters had unrealiable rear wheel brgs. Could go anywhere from 10-60k miles.

Drove a 97 legacy for years and averaged roughly 30mpg, i remember getting 33 once (all highway at ~45mph), loved that car...
Now drive a 98 Forester, avg26-27mpg... and I think the legacy was better. The 2.2 wasnt as powerful (once that forester 2.5 is over 4k itll snap your neck) but was more than I needed for regular driving. The legacy had more rear legroom, and more cargo space. If i needed the AWD i would get another legacy without thinking about it, noone else comes close IMHO.

ps. one thing the forester has on the legacy is ground clearance, never ever got stuck with it (its corny, but i was actually working as a forester(intern) for a while :p )

pps. i hope I dont sound like im talking down. my girlfriend says i think im always right, oh yea? well so does she!

[yellowtail3]

Ideas?

For bang-for-your-buck... I think an Escort Wagon is the ticket. I've got two (one is a Tracer). Cheap to purchase, cheap to run, competent, lots of room for a 35mpg+ car. I take mine hunting - carries stand, rifle and shotgun, lots of gear, and boots - without even putting the back seats down. It's carried lots of deer, too.

If you're got not more than two kids, it'll do fine.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/sabot300/LastHunt-Jan120070151280x768.jpg

[101mpg]

Go check out the Malibu Maxx. Not quite as tall as a minivan but seats five EASILY and has more than power to spare with the V-6 and gets insane mileage (I can get up to 40 hwy). Seats fold AND slide - all 4 seats including the back 60/40 split! Have seen it fit a loveseat with ease.

Also - whatever you get - TAKE OFF ANY LUGGAGE RACKS. Helps tremendously - 1-3 MPG depending on model. Those things are entirely useless to 99%+ of the population.

[peteshaw]

I am getting 27 highway and 22 overall, with my 2003 Sienna, no mods, no special driving.

I'll report back once I start checking the tires, put in Synthetic Oil and take the roof rack off.

[theholycow]

Heh...old thread...oh well, someone else bumped it, might as well add my thoughts.

JanGeo's xB seems like a great choice.

The 2008 Jeep Patriot is EPA rated 23/28, and I suspect it would hypermile very well. It's also dirt cheap to buy brand new and has their lifetime powertrain warranty.

[RoadWarrior]

The 2008 Jeep Patriot is EPA rated 23/28, and I suspect it would hypermile very well. It's also dirt cheap to buy brand new and has their lifetime powertrain warranty.

They get you a $1000 rebate in Canada and the $2.99 a gallon guarantee in the US at the moment. Reasonable mpg for such a square and upright looking thing. The caliber on the same platform gets 1mpg better, guess the aero isn't quite so bad. However, in Canada, the caliber doesn't qualify as an SUV so doesn't get the "efficiency" rebate.

Funny thing is though, parked near one the other day, has less ground clearance than my minivan :confused:

[Improbcat]

In the "cheap" category I'd put in a vote for the 92-95 Ford Taurus wagon with a 3.0 motor.

The motor is bulletproof, the car is pretty roomy (can seat 8 legally in a pinch) and has a (revised) EPA of 18/27mpg. I've heard of careful driving netting a consistent 25-30mpg.

Only downsides are auto-only, and the transmissions are on the weak side (though if it's been rebuilt once the major design problems should have been addressed during the rebuild).

[RoadWarrior]

If Ford had the sense to specify fluid changes, they wouldn't have such a bad rap... severe service schedule=every 30,000km, normal schedule=never???

[red91sit]

Just tossing it out there, every automatic i've owned has had its' original fluid in the transmission still :S Just one of those things i guess.

[lowbridescape]

I'm late to the party here, but I used to own a 3.1L Lumina APV (GM dustbuster) aka, moonbuggy. Was notoriously reliable. In 14 years: head removed for bad gasket. Belt tensioner broke and fell off in the middle of the highway. At year 13, the steel frame under the engine rusted through and dropped the engine in the middle of the road (wouldn't have been so bad if the steering linkage hadn't separated when the engine fell. Good thing I was doing about 2 mph at the time). The five interchangeable removeable seats were amazingly flexible. I must have driven with a dozen different seat combinations. I rebuilt my garage roof (frame, sheathing, shingles). I put all the material in/on the Lumina APV in one trip. Must have been 1,500-2,000 lbs. Springs were crushed the whole way home. That may be why my cars don't last forever.

I never actually measured the mileage, but I could go back and forth to work for 3 full weeks (300+ miles) on a tank (16 gallon total). It must have been running well into the 20's mpg in mostly suburban driving. Even though mileage wasn't a big thing at the time, it did occur to me that it would have been an advantage to have the windshield wipers parked in the up position, providing a huge smooth front.

[RoadWarrior]

Belt tensioner broke and fell off in the middle of the highway.

Heh, that's gotta be so common on those motors, walk around the edges of any big parking lot, or inspect the gutters while you're walking the city streets and it seems almost inevitable you'll see one of those belt tensioners :D

[atomicradish]

Mid 90s Eagle Summit Wagon

http://images.automotive.com/reviews/images/p94summit.gif

Much better gas mileage, but still looks like a van and has a sufficient amount of cargo space.

[ihatemybike]

Mid 90s Eagle Summit Wagon

http://images.automotive.com/reviews/images/p94summit.gif

Much better gas mileage, but still looks like a van and has a sufficient amount of cargo space.

Gaaah, I have a line on a free one. I'll just need to fix the trans, rust, and interior smell.

[1993CivicVX]

Just a little story. But first, I agree that Previas are one of the best automobiles ever built and by far the best minivan. Way ahead of their time then and still ahead of their time.

I removed the heavy seats from my dad's chrysler minivan 3.8 liter Town and Country pig. Got 26.1mpg roundtrip mostly highway hypermiling it as much as I know how to hypermile an automatic. Some P&G no EOC but the car doesn't like going back into gear from neutral when the RPMs are up a bit, although the car is taller geared than my VX. The way back was more up hill than the way there. The way back was filled with stuff including a light bed frame, box frame, and a mattress and bunch of other junk. Up a hill that can be coasted at about 55-60mph I averaged 17-18mpg (let's call it 17.5mpg) based on the computer in the car. Now if this car had engine shut off whenever not on the throttle (some form of mild hybrid) I should, then, theoretically be able to get 35mpg no? If I can average 17.5mpg going up a hill I could coast down at 55-60mph--then roundtrip should be 35mpg! And yet with the engine always running I can only manage 26mpg. This car has terrible idle fuel use. 45mph=100mpg. I swear all big engine cars/vans/suvs should be hybrids.

[hypermile]

I (for the summer) drive a a 98 Plymouth Voyager, and I'm able to get somewhere between 25-30 mpg. The storage rack is off, and the tires are well inflated.

[Jay2TheRescue]

The only minivan I've ever heard of to give better mpg than average, and better than your subie, are the "dustbuster" GM minivans with the 3.8. Owners report high 20's, even 30 mpg. I have no personal experience with them, but I do know that the 3.8 delivers effortless power with better than usual economy.

All the others I thought of- Quest, Villager, MPV, etc., suck gas just as bad as the subie.
One thing to watch for on those vans. My father had one a while back. He hated it because the slope of the windshield lined up with the hood. You were flying blind because you could not see where the front of the vehicle was. It probably was the most aerodynamic minivan ever offered to the public though. GM made it a little better to drive in the later models where they flattened out the front end a bit, instead of making it come to a point.

[opelgt73]

I used to have a Ford Aerostar. Both standard and extended versions. It usually averaged 26-28mpg.