Extracting energy from our used motor oil

[OfficeLinebacker]

I've been a DIYer, saver, and economizer (miser?) for years.

I generally save my used motor oil in WWF jugs and drop it off at the auto parts store on the next trip.

A while ago I read the "Mother Earth" plans for making a space heater out of an old electric water heater some frying pans, and some asbestos (!). At first I thought I would do that but I don't really have a place for it, nor a good source for used water heaters.

Lately, with my focus on MPG, I have been researching water injection, mostly so I can run 87 in my Camry which calls for 89 without activating the knock sensor. Of course around here there are only 87, 91, and 93 and I hate to pay more for what I don't need, and I am not going to try to do two separate transactions to get just what I need.

Anyway I was thinking about how some add methanol to the injection mix. I also see where some people use the PCV system as the intake for the water. The PCV system is designed to burn off the crankcase air, which, wouldn't you know, consists of a fine mist of engine oil droplets, among other things.

Cue some more research, and it turns out economical (and slightly eccentric) diesel owners have been dumping used oil in their tanks for years. Some go so far as to use a 50-50 mix with few if any ill effects. Some use whatever they can get--after an OC it's motor oil, other times it's whatever they can get from the local Chinese joint.

Now gasoline and diesel are different creatures, but a gas engine is obviously built to tolerate the ingestion of some used motor oil.

Many people advocate the use of a catch can in the low pressure side of the PCV system to catch the droplets to prevent intake/valve fouling. Fair enough, I do that on one of my cars myself.

But this used motor oil clearly contains BTUs that are probably going to be burned off at some plant anyway. Any ideas for extracting that heat within a gasoline engine? Anyone tried it, maybe 1:10 or something in their gas?

I also wonder if it's not possible with a regular gas engine, perhaps addition of a WWF injection system could help it work? Maybe there's even a way to make an emulsion for single source injecting?

I know I probably sound like the guy who wants to convert his lawnmower to diesel, but you can't fault a guy for asking, right?

[Sludgy]

I had an old Fiat 128 that ran out of gas late at night about 100 miles west of Ottawa. All I could beg was a gallon of snowmobile gas-oil mix. It ran fine and gave me 25 miles to find an open gas station.

My guess is that as long as you filter out the sludge, you could mix it with gas just fine.

[SD26]

Used engine oil has more Btu's than diesel. I've been recycling my UEO for a few years into my diesel tank. Can't say that I've tried it in gasoline.

[Hateful]

I wouldn't risk this in my car, but maybe the lawn mower; it ran on 95% alcohol before with no problem.

[dosco]

Lately, with my focus on MPG, I have been researching water injection, mostly so I can run 87 in my Camry which calls for 89 without activating the knock sensor. Of course around here there are only 87, 91, and 93 and I hate to pay more for what I don't need, and I am not going to try to do two separate transactions to get just what I need.

Not sure you would want water injection, my understanding is that this was used in highly boosted (think turbo- or super-charged piston engines) to cool the intake charge. Used for making lots of power.

Alcohol injection, OTOH ... I understand that GM or Ford has been experimenting with something called "Ethanol Boost Engine" or similar. Idea being a super-high compression engine, running with gasoline. At peak loads, ethanol is injected to raise the octane and prevent predetonation.

One problem that comes to mind is puddling. Evidently fuel tends to puddle in the intake system (even with fuel injection) and I would imagine water would behave similarly, and I would worry about hydolocking the pistons and killing the engine.

Out of curiousity, what does your research indicate?

Cue some more research, and it turns out economical (and slightly eccentric) diesel owners have been dumping used oil in their tanks for years.

Used motor oil? I would assume that stuff would be filtered to remove particulates, etc.?

Any ideas for extracting that heat within a gasoline engine?

I was thinking of attaching Peltier devices to the exhaust system to generate electrical power...

I also wonder if it's not possible with a regular gas engine, perhaps addition of a WWF injection system could help it work? Maybe there's even a way to make an emulsion for single source injecting?

Doesn't burning oil in a gasoline engine cause problems with the catlytic converter?

[OfficeLinebacker]

It's water injection effectively raises the octane rating of gas. The alcohol has more of a cooling effect on the intake charge, making it more dense. I pretty much came to the conclusion last night that traditional WWF is fine for injecting. Just need to find an appropriate delivery system. Some kind of venturi before the throttle plate seems the best bet. Not too worried about puddling, I can use a WAI and/or route the tubing near a heat source to make sure it's nice and warm. WWF fluid injection, done properly, can definitely be a big MPG booster.

Yes, burning oil in a gasoline engine affects the cat the most. However, the system is clearly designed to burn SOME oil, per the PCV system. The question is, how much more can it tolerate?

[dosco]

WWF fluid injection, done properly, can definitely be a big MPG booster.

Be sure to post some results data!

[beatr911]

I've been using 1:132 (1 oz per gallon) used oil mix in my motorcycle for years. I swear it runs smoother with it's marginal carburetion at idle. The oil is filtered by gravity through a fuel filter before going into a bottle and added to the tank before filling for a good mix.

The motorcycle has a 10.2:1 compression so much more than that reduces octane rating too much, your vehicle will be different so experiment to see what your engine can tolerate. At the rate I use the used oil, I burn all the oil from the previous change by the time the next oil change comes around - why waste it?

Because oil has such a high flash point, I wonder how much is burned and how much is just vaporized and sent out the tail pipe. That's another discussion though.

Good idea using it in diesel. I'll mix some into the tractor diesel.

[RoadWarrior]

Could probably mix 15% into E85 and get it to run. Could probably make an exhaust heat exchanger to get it very hot, and mist it into the intake along with steam and it wouldn't burn too bad...

Could probably wait 5 years until I get round to making my "universal carburettor" concept that's an on car oil refinery and will run on anything from hot candle wax to convertor gas.

[Ryland]

You can tell when an engine is burning even a small amount of oil, because it doesn't burn very well, at best most of it is turning in to soot in the exhaust system, motor oil has alot of additives in it that are designed to keep it from burning, recycling the oil is just that, recycling it in to new oil, separating out the grit and water, neurilzing the acids, and adding more of the additives that get used up as the oil ages, it seems like a great idea.

[Dust]

Not sure you would want water injection, my understanding is that this was used in highly boosted (think turbo- or super-charged piston engines) to cool the intake charge. Used for making lots of power.

That's basically what he wants. Cooler charge means less less heat. It's the same thing for big boosted engines. I just hooked a hose to a vacuum port after the throttle body that ran into a water bottle. I couldn't make the thing ping. It was rated for low octane, but it would knock at low rpms on hills. Not with the water though. Just gotta reduce flow enough that it doesn't get into the oil too much and leave a milkshake on your oil cap.

[theclencher]

I too think recycling is a better way to deal with it than burning it in an engine. Oil is not desireable in the combustion chamber and great engineering efforts are made to keep it outta there! It gooks things up.

[dosco]

That's basically what he wants.

OK, but how does this translate into better FE? The idea is to burn less fuel, not more, right?

Or is this a way to lean the engine out and then prevent predetonation?

[OfficeLinebacker]

recycling the oil is just that, recycling it in to new oil, separating out the grit and water, neurilzing the acids, and adding more of the additives that get used up as the oil ages, it seems like a great idea.

I too think recycling is a better way to deal with it than burning it in an engine. Oil is not desireable in the combustion chamber and great engineering efforts are made to keep it outta there! It gooks things up.

The majority of used oil ends up getting burned for energy anyway.

http://www.purdue.edu/envirosoft/housewaste/house/motoroil.htm

My used oil has BTUs than can be converted into usable energy. I want to use those BTUs myself. That's about it for that.

As far as WWF injection: Dust--right on. What I want is to not lean out the mixture; I want the ECU to not retard the timing when I use the cheapest gas.

[JoeBob]

Any ideas for extracting that heat within a gasoline engine?

I've wondered about using the engine heat to run an air conditioner system somewhat like the old gas or propane refrigerators...

[VetteOwner]

You can tell when an engine is burning even a small amount of oil, because it doesn't burn very well, at best most of it is turning in to soot in the exhaust system, motor oil has alot of additives in it that are designed to keep it from burning, recycling the oil is just that, recycling it in to new oil, separating out the grit and water, neurilzing the acids, and adding more of the additives that get used up as the oil ages, it seems like a great idea.

ohh yes, not to mention having a blue cloud of smoke following you which is illegal...(who knows what else if you have emissions testing)

recycling is just as easy, we fill up an old 5 gallon gas can with used oil then take it down to the oil recycle place.

[theholycow]

I've wondered about using the engine heat to run an air conditioner system somewhat like the old gas or propane refrigerators...

If you wanted to try to hack it out of parts from such a fridge, RVs have modern versions of them. Also, I think the 12v micro fridges sold in drugstores are the same type. They're called ammonia absorption refrigerators.

[RoadWarrior]

These days I think the 12V mini fridges use Peltier elements.

Oil in the motor, by accident, tends to happen by having worn rings in which case the oil is a sheet against the relatively cold wall of the cylinder..OR.. it dribbles in down the valve guides, either dripping straight into a hot exhaust port, where it will just smoke off the hot metal, or dribbling down into the intake port, where it will probably puddle around the valve, and just drop into the cylinder when the valve opens.... neither method of introduction is particularly effective at introducing oil into the cylinder as a fuel.

[theholycow]

These days I think the 12V mini fridges use Peltier elements.

Ah yes, I forgot that...I did know it at one point. I stand corrected. :thumbup:

As I posted I was trying to figure out how they conquered the position issue, as those 12v mini fridges don't come with warnings against tipping them sideways. That explains it!

[R.I.D.E.]

BMW has developed a system that utilizes exhaust heat to drive a steam turbine which produces electricity to drive the accessories. They claim a 15% mileage improvement.

It might also be a means of driving a HHO generator, that would work better than using the alternator since the exhaust heat is a total waste after it passes through the converters.

Could be a considerable power source since it is about 62% of total energy losses.

As far as using oil as a fuel in gasoline IC engines, I have never tried it. We did use it to heat our shop using a furnace especially designed for that purpose. The furnace preheated the oil and injected it with air pressure into a chamber with a ceramic diffuser (looked like a big frying pan with no handle).

It was so efficient you could hold your hand in the exhaust flue without any serious discomfort. Probably not practical for small quantities, and in some areas it is illegal, although that is really kind of stupid when you consider what some people do with waste oil. We burned several hundred gallons of it a year, and when our reserves got low we just used some home heating oil.

regards
gary

[OfficeLinebacker]

Sounds like extracting BTUs from used oil is best done either using a furnace or a diesel. Maybe I can give it to a friend who owns a diesel or actually try my hand at that Mother Earth design.

[dosco]

Lately, with my focus on MPG, I have been researching water injection, mostly so I can run 87 in my Camry which calls for 89 without activating the knock sensor. Of course around here there are only 87, 91, and 93 and I hate to pay more for what I don't need, and I am not going to try to do two separate transactions to get just what I need.

Reread the OP, sorry I missed the bolded bit.

Have you used 87 and noted anything?

[RoadWarrior]

It might also be a means of driving a HHO generator, that would work better than using the alternator since the exhaust heat is a total waste after it passes through the converters.

Working on that one here. Not finding good design info for the types of turbines and electrical generators I want to use though, think I'm going to have to knock together a prototype on gut feelings.

[R.I.D.E.]

Road Warrior;

Google "animated engines gnome". The WW1 era rotary aircraft engine is the only design that was actually built in significant quantities, that had a piston moving up and down in a cylinder BUT WAS NOT A RECIPROCATING ENGINE.

Reverse the pistons and cylinders, eliminate the connecting rod, and use ports in an enlarged journal where the cylinders rotate around that journal and uncover two ports that allow pressure to enter the cylinders from 0-180 degrees, then exhaust the residual pressure from 180-360 degrees.

Now you have a rotary pump or motor that has no reciprocation losses, high torque at low speeds (the originals ran at only 1300 RPM).

Try to not get too distracted by the negative aspects of the original design, high fuel and oil consumption, mixing fuel and oil, centrifugal forces. In the context of the time those engines were developed they were miracles of efficiency, but they were also nightmares to produce. Each cylinder started out as a 96 pound steel slug that had to be machined (by hand) to a final weight of 6 pounds. The engine cost 1000 pounds to produce, more than the cost of a nice home in that era. Modern computer manufacturing advances could do the same with virtually no human effort.

That is what I have been working on for 6 years, and this fall Virginia Tech will be working with my designs to produce a prototype and do efficiency calculations as well as CAD drawings.

One of the basic claims in my first patent was to separate the support bearings for the rotating engine block from the crank journal. The non rotating crankshaft is positioned in an offset bored through the support bearing housing, which allows the journal position to be adjusted while the engine-pump-motor is spinning, which allows the stroke to be adjusted from a positive position to a zero position and even a reverse position.

In an IC engine this allows you to vary the stroke and compression, as well as eliminate all stroke, which transforms the engine into a free spinning flywheel. Now you have an engine that can use IC to run itself up to a speed then almost instantaneously transform itself into a free spinning flywheel.
Much of my research involves eliminating all of the various energy robbing forces inherent in a normal IC engine. I wont get into the details yet but , a lot of time has been spent in this area.

The most basic part or the concept is to have an engine that transforms itself into a large mechanical capacitor using the spinning mass of the engine to accomplish things like regenerative braking, as well as pulse and glide type of operation using a continuously variable transmission, where the engine can accelerate itself to a speed of 4-5000 RPM then shut off the fuel eliminate the stroke and allow the engines mass as a flywheel to continue to provide power to the vehicle to maintain a constant speed while the transmission changes its "gear" ratios (remember cvt can do this) and keep the vehicle at a constant speed while the engine and transmission do the pulse and glide, with no driver imput required. When the energy level of the engine has been depleted at some point below 1000 rpm, then the stroke is reapplied and fuel is injected and the engine repeats the cycle.

Another configuration is to use the same basic configuration as an in wheel hydraulic drive, which when combined with an accumulator for hydraulic pressure, would give you a single burst of energy for acceleration in a vehicle, with no engine imput whatsoever. Like the catapult on an aircraft carrier, but this design allows you to recharge the accumulator with the same energy you would normally loose in friction braking. Call it hydraulic regenerative braking. Now the vehicle could do a 0-70, stop, 0-63, stop, 0-56, stop, 0-50, stop, etc, etc, still with no engine imput. the engine only has to restore the energy reserves and can be run at its ideal state of highest power for least fuel. The engine would never idle, it would only consume fuel when it is recharging the accumulator.

According the Charles Gray of the EPA the hydraulic hybrid will be as revolutionary to the future development of transportation as the assembly line was early in the last century.

regards
gary

[SD26]

Road Warrior;

Google "animated engines gnome".
Finally did that. I get it.

[8307c4]

For more than a few years now I've been buying wd-40 by the gallon, I then mix this 50-50 with used motor oil, works right nice (thou I do run synthetic oil).

Now it doesn't run in cars, but as a lubricant it works as well as straight wd-40 and as such stretches my dollar. Of course it doesn't exactly recycle ALL of my used motor oil, in fact only a small percent of it is recycled this way, but it helps.

And yes I use a considerable amount of wd-40, probably at least a gallon a year.
Just one idea.

[theholycow]

As a lubricant, WD-40 is pretty awful, so mixing with motor oil should help. WD-40 is great for cleaning stuff but it only lubricates for a short time before the important parts evaporate. It's mainly a solvent, not a lubricant.

Depending on what you're lubricating, I'd suggest using straight motor oil.

[dosco]

Google "animated engines gnome". The WW1 era rotary aircraft engine is the only design that was actually built in significant quantities, that had a piston moving up and down in a cylinder BUT WAS NOT A RECIPROCATING ENGINE.

I'm curious, why do you contend a rotary is "not a reciprocating engine?"

[R.I.D.E.]

dosco:

watch the animation carefully.

The con rods rotate around the journal, in a conventional engine the con rods never rotate around the journal.

With a fixed crankshaft the rotating rods are not converting reciprocating motion into rotary motion. Instead the pressure created in combustion is actually pushing the cylinder heads away from the piston, just the opposite of any reciprocating engine.

It would be the same if you bolted the crankshaft to your car (as the original rotary crank was bolted to the plane, and let the engine rotate around the fixrf crank. It's not easy to visualize, but it is clearly demonstrated in the animation.

In reciprcating engines the piston, piston pin, and a portion of the mass of the upper portion of the connecting rod are reciprocating components. Their mass must be accelerated from TDC to 90 degrees, then decelerated to 180, reaccelerated to 270, and decelerated again to 360. This process must be repeated twice in an Otto cycle engine before you get a single combustion pulse to provide your power.

In 1913 the best auto engine was the Mercedes grand prix engine which produced 200 horsepower at 2200 RPM. It displaced about 1400 cubic inches and burned a quart of oil every 25 miles.

The same year a rotary engine powered a Deperdussein clipped wing monoplane to an average speed of 121 MPh over a closed course, producing 160 HP at 1300 RPM at half the displacement of the Benz engine. That 75% of the power with half the displacement at just over 50 % of the RPM, comparing the best to the best.

Every negative aspect of the original rotary engine is solveable, in the same way they were solved by the evolution of the Benz GP engine. The rotary fell out of favor at the end of WW1 because of design limitations and exorbitant production costs.

The most crucial improvement is reversing the pistons and cylinders and eliminating the connecting rod. I have a model that demonstrates this configuration. The reason for this configuration is oil control, and the fact that centrifugal forces serve to force oil away from the combustion chamber when the configuration is reversed. In the originals the oil was forced into the combustion chambers by centrifugal force.

Another major advantage of the development I have been engaged in is a closed loop lubrication system, unlike the originals where oil was mixed with the fuel. A third advantage is all intake and exhaust gasses will pass through a single intake and exhaust port, and only one fuel injector is necessary to provide all the fuel for combustion. This concentrates the exhause heat in a single port where it can be transferred to the incoming air-fuel charge to enhance complete distribution of the fuel air mix. It's called HCCI (homogenous charge compression ignition) and increases efficiency by 25% over normal fuel delivery, while eliminating the ignition system.

This is not a high speed design, it operates more like a large truck diesel engine. Combined with the ability to eliminate stroke completely which transforms the engine into a free spinning flywheel, you have an engine that never idles, only operates at peak efficiency, regardless of vehicle speed, and provides storage for regeneration, without any electric motor or battery.

In every hybrid system losses occur in every stage of energy conversion, which places electric hybrids at a serious disadvantage, because only a fraction of the energy availabel for regeneration is actually reapplied to the wheels for power.

The in wheel pump directly connected to an accumulator is the shortest pathway possible to highest efficiency regeneration. The problem with hybrids is the different combative philosophies about which is the best future path. This design allows for any non reversible power source to be installed in the position of proividing power to replensih reserves in the accumulator. The configuration is also much less complex than any other system with about 25% fewer manufactured components per vehicle, and requires no battery or electric motor (although it could be configured with one, or a combination of two or more power sources to satisfy any desired power configuration.

regards
gary

[Erik]

RIDE- very interesting. I can see that it would have lots of FE potential, especially with its ability to freewheel without using any fuel.

What about the bearings to support this large rotating mass? Are they roller bearing that are lubed with grease from the outside (via zerks) or are they pressure lubed insert bearings lubed by the same oil that lubes the cylinders/rings?

What is the total rpm range of your design- ie- what is the minimum speed that it can keep running and what is the maximum speed that it can spin?

Without an ignition system, would you have to preheat the fuel in order to cold start this engine?

[dosco]

With a fixed crankshaft the rotating rods are not converting reciprocating motion into rotary motion. Instead the pressure created in combustion is actually pushing the cylinder heads away from the piston, just the opposite of any reciprocating engine.

Oh, I see what you're getting at.

Without seeing your model, I'm not sure I understand what your changes are to the "classic" rotary design.

Not sure I agree with your reasons for why the rotary fell out of favor - do you have a citation or source?

[Big Dave]

It depends on whether you want to look at it from a micro or macro standpoint.

From a macro standpoint, you are more energy efficient taking it to the auto parts store for re-refining. Motor oil lasts through many re-refining processes. All they really do is clean the oil and replenish the additive package. Re-refining saves a lot of the energy needed to refine a quart of engine lube oil.

From a micro standpoint running through your diesel is the best idea. Generally, a mix 20 parts diesel to 1 part motor oil runs fine and doesn?t smoke. You do need to filter used motor oil as it picks up metallic particles from the engine and these can be murder on injectors.

The really cheap-Charlie approach is to install a bypass filter and use a good-quality synthetic oil. Since for my truck an oil change is a 14-quart affair I?d go broke changing oil every 5,000 miles. With a bypass filter setup and good-quality synthetic (I use Amsoil but others may be just as good) I go two years (50,000 miles) on an oil change. Actually the analysis shows the oil is still good but I lose my nerve at 50,000 miles. Twice a year I change filters (about a quart and a half each) and to some extent my rather loose diesel changes a couple of quarts a year on its own (leakage) so when I change oil there is only maybe 50% of the original oil still in it. Still, even with the price of the synthetic oil it is much cheaper than changing 14 quarts of oil every 5,000 miles.

[OfficeLinebacker]

It depends on whether you want to look at it from a micro or macro standpoint.

From a macro standpoint, you are more energy efficient taking it to the auto parts store for re-refining. Motor oil lasts through many re-refining processes. All they really do is clean the oil and replenish the additive package. Re-refining saves a lot of the energy needed to refine a quart of engine lube oil.

From a micro standpoint running through your diesel is the best idea. Generally, a mix 20 parts diesel to 1 part motor oil runs fine and doesn?t smoke. You do need to filter used motor oil as it picks up metallic particles from the engine and these can be murder on injectors.

The really cheap-Charlie approach is to install a bypass filter and use a good-quality synthetic oil. Since for my truck an oil change is a 14-quart affair I?d go broke changing oil every 5,000 miles. With a bypass filter setup and good-quality synthetic (I use Amsoil but others may be just as good) I go two years (50,000 miles) on an oil change. Actually the analysis shows the oil is still good but I lose my nerve at 50,000 miles. Twice a year I change filters (about a quart and a half each) and to some extent my rather loose diesel changes a couple of quarts a year on its own (leakage) so when I change oil there is only maybe 50% of the original oil still in it. Still, even with the price of the synthetic oil it is much cheaper than changing 14 quarts of oil every 5,000 miles.

I think you might need to clean your rose-colored glasses.

The parts store simply hands it off to an intermediary who does the most economical thing with the oil. The vast majority is burned for heat. Let me post this pie chart once again:

http://www.purdue.edu/envirosoft/housewaste/house/motoroil.htm

The parts store doesn't have some sort of special channel that is an exception to the above statistics, unless you know something I don't.

Pardon my abrasiveness, I need to replace my personality filter.

[SD26]

There's got to be more current data than something seventeen years ago, right?

I think conservation opportunities, in addition to various requirements, would change those numbers.

Even some off the shelf oil is recycled, used oil. And, because of the recycling of synthetic and group three oils into the mix, the used oils are pretty good.

[theholycow]

I have to agree with OfficeLinebacker. Unless there's legal requirement to do otherwise, you can be sure that most businesses accepting used oil are getting rid of it the cheapest way they can.

IMO, burning waste motor oil for heat is no worse than burning fresh dinosaur juice, and it lets new motor oil be made without recycled material.

[RoadWarrior]

I've been hoarding my used oil, I'm planning on making a "Babbington burner" to use it for shop heat... and other purposes. Sometimes though when I'm not far from oil change time and broke, if the crankcase needs topping off, I'll take one of the cleaner bottles that's been settling for 6 months and use a quart off the top. Figure it's better to do that than run out of oil, also with 6 months settling time, the top 2 quarts is usually pretty clean looking.

[OfficeLinebacker]

Interesting...topping up with used oil...

[RoadWarrior]

Well I wouldn't call it ideal, but well settled oil that has had all the water and sediments settle out can't be too bad... compared to running your oil low...

Edit: oh btw, when I'm running the Escort again with 0W30 walmart synth, if Marvin hasn't got his "new" motor by the time I've done a change on the Escort (15,000 km on that stuff) then what I might do it leave that to settle and add a quart at a time with marvins changes. With the rebuilt motor though I'll go to 0W30 in both of them.