Filter catch can

[SVOboy]

Due to a loss of picture hosting and my being too lazy to repost, please visit my site: http://crxmpg.com/pcv.html

[krousdb]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but what benefit does one get from this? Would I benefit?

[SVOboy]

The pcv line carries oil and vapors into the intake manifold plenum to burn them up. I don't want them burnt up and gunking in my damn engine.

[diamondlarry]

It should make the engine last longer since the solids that are in the vapors from the crankcase won't be going back inside the engine.

[SVOboy]

Haha, the funny thing is that in a few minutes I plan to have this engine sitting in my basement. I might rebuild the block for vtec-e madness though.

[molecule]

thats kind of small...
i'd expect that to fill in 450-500 miles...
not big enough for my needs...
did you see any bigger filters at HD...?
there's usually $20 shipped deals on ebay for larger units...
also you can eliminate the pcv valve

good short write-up though...right to the point...

[SVOboy]

I'm not turbo, so I don't expect it to fill up that fast. I'd end up losing like a quart every change, which I def don't. Rick (rh77) has the same one as me and his isn't full yet after 1-2k, I think he's done.

But yes, they do have bigger filters, I didn't look at the size though.

[molecule]

actually i was referring to how many miles i drive
i'm not turbo yet

also i haven't had a catchcan setup since i was in my metro
it was a little bigger than yours
it filled up constantly...i guess it was about every two tanks...
so maybe 800 miles

[SVOboy]

Damn, I've never seen one will up so fast, :p

I sure hope mine doesn't.

[molecule]

hmm...well now that i think...
i bought one of these mpg devices to try out...
it mixed catchcan hydrocarbons with a small fuelline tap...
which might have created more "pull" into the chamber...

it didn't work for crap...
but here's a link for reference
http://www.agsint.com/atom.shl

[SVOboy]

Haha, the fuel atomizer, :p

[molecule]

woop woop...lol...
i wasn't born smart...just make lots of bad choices...
i learn eventually...
ha

[SVOboy]

Already got hella oil in my can, I'll take a picture when I can upload them, damn computer, :p

[thisisntjared]

very nice diy.

i hope that it provide limited restriction to the pcv system so that there still is a vacuum in the crank case under partial throttle conditions....

[thisisntjared]

hmm i think im going to get around to doing this in the next 2-3 weeks. do you think i should mount 2 sequentially just to see how efficient the 1st is?

[SVOboy]

If you wish. I would wonder it but I don't think it'll get much in the second.

[tomauto]

Interesting DIY, do you have the pictures?

[SVOboy]

Pictures with the oil I will get tomorrow if I remember.

[tomauto]

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1997/e3123tk.jpg" border="0" width="500" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>

seems as if this honda owner decieded not to use his pcv valve...


What do ya think? Where is he running the end of the hose that should go there?

[kickflipjr]

Not a good idea. The car might run bad. The pcv is supposed to be a closed system. Not to mention the outside of the engine will get oily over time.

[SVOboy]

He's got a breather on the portion that would normally go to the intake arm, because his SRI/CAI has no attachment. The other pcv that we're working on with this diy are still intact.

I would not do it, none the less.

[SVOboy]

UPDATE!!!

I forget how many miles, but not many, :p
http://xs305.xs.to/xs305/06351/DSC00134.JPG (http://xs.to)

[Compaq888]

good update

[tomauto]

summer starts for me soon! :)

Can't wait to start these mods

[krousdb]

Can you reuse that oil?

[SVOboy]

Interesting question, it appears rather dirty though. I'm 30 miles over for an oil change so I'll prolly toss it into the pan when I go to the recycling center to deposit my oil.

[thisisntjared]

i wouldnt re-use it. since it was once a mist coming from the crank case, there is probably a strong concentration of water in it, making it acidic. its not like we have turbo cars though and you need to empty it every 3 weeks or whatever.

i have a double setup in sequence on mine and i left the filters in. 500 miles have been put on the setup so far and it seems to be working very well. the first has about a half inch of oil in the bottom and the second just has a brown tint. so just one filters quite a large amount, probably 85-90% however the second still has residue but there is no puddle on the bottom. it may be more effective if the filter kept in place and steel wool is placed in the resevoir to help collect the oil vapors. either way the double filter setup is superfluous and only one should be needed to show results.

i plan on sea foaming the intake manifold soon to clean out all the gunk from the 116k miles on the d16z6 and then i will see how wonderful this mod really is. i am going to wait for my spark plugs age first though.

bottom line: the single home depot catch can definitely works!

[ZugyNA]

I'm going to try and duplicate one of these soon:


http://www.condensatorsales.com/


Already have the jar made up....just need to buy around $5 of the silica beads.

[zpiloto]

I'm going to try and duplicate one of these soon:


http://www.condensatorsales.com/


Already have the jar made up....just need to buy around $5 of the silica beads.

What are the beads for? Could find them listed in the site.

[Jack]

I got the parts for mine. Hope to get it in this weekend.

[thisisntjared]

i cant believe that guy is charging 180 for a catch can...

[Jack]

i cant believe that guy is charging 180 for a catch can...

$180 !!!!!!!! man I am in the wrong business!

[SVOboy]

No one is gonna buy that ish unless you're a stone cold scammer.

[Jack]

No one is gonna buy that ish unless you're a stone cold scammer.

I am sure that they sell some. As P.T. Barnum said "there's a sucker born every minute"

And what can I say I bought a tornado for my truck once.

[SVOboy]

Tornado makes so much sense at first. They offer you all this theory that makes you think you know stuff, when in fact they're just ignoring how it actually works.

[90CivicStandard]

I have one of these types of catch cans in my car currently. As far as I can tell it works great.

What's up with the expensive catch cans? LoL.

I guess I'm more of a DIY guy.

I am going to try to think up another version of this inline type of catch can. On my last car I had an open PCV system with this homemade can:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/koreanwilcox1/Catch%20Can/CatchCan016resized.jpg

Seafoam for the win! lol

[SVOboy]

What's the ventilation for? Extra pollution power?

[90CivicStandard]

What's the ventilation for? Extra pollution power?

That was for crankcase ventilation. The seafoam can was filled with steel wool to separate the oil from the vapors. But yeah, I'm sure it wasn't good for emissions. I wanted to do a pre-turbo slash cut but I had a filter directly on the turbo so that was out of the question.

This was the only way I could see that where I could vent my crankcase both in vacuum and in boost.

[thisisntjared]

yea you kinda need a catch can with your turbo setup. i like your setup though. care to indulge me with details?

[ZugyNA]

What are the beads for? Could find them listed in the site.

They are silica gel beads...same material that is apparently used in refineries as part of the cracking process. They are supposed to have fine pores which help to separate out the more volatile vapors...while the heavier oils stay in the jar.

The resulting vapors are supposed to improve mileage by 20-40%.

http://www.condensatorsales.com/html/racing_engine.html

http://www.condensatorsales.com/html/adsorbant_separator.html

Am I promoting this? No. I've used PCV jars before and have had no mpg gains...but have collected some oil and fine carbon...in the winter milky colored water also.

Some of these condensators also have an air bleed...I think the ones used on carbed vehicles.

You can find the beads for around $5 a lb.

[SVOboy]

So, you're saying these "volatile vapors" will improve mileage 20-40%?

[90CivicStandard]

So, you're saying these "volatile vapors" will improve mileage 20-40%?

That's quite a claim to make!

[95metro]

:rolleyes: Crap! Another "miracle" device with a whole ton of butt-dyno testamonials and no A-B-A testing. When I get my MID I'm going to test a catch can. I don't care if I have to drive all day to get some kind of result! :D

[SVOboy]

Yeah, I doubt the catch can will do crap for mileage, but it keeps the oil from gunking in my IM.

[95metro]

The subtracted gunk is probably good for 1-2 mpg on a regular basis, which is what I'm thinking the catch can is mostly going to do. 7 mpg extra in a truck? pfft...I wonder how hot it was that day.

I think we really need to educate people on the variability of FE - especially due to temperature - and that checking "once in a while" isn't good enough. Everyone I talk to about it has no idea how much it jumps around. I didn't even know until I bought the Metro and started researching it.

[SVOboy]

Dang, 1 mpg, that's a lot, :p

[95metro]

Well, depending on your average I suppose it is.

Okay 1-2 mpg in the summer. :D

[90CivicStandard]

care to indulge me with details?

It was a pretty basic setup.

60 trim T3 .48/.60 @ 12psi on a d16z6.

Pretty damn fun little setup.

[SVOboy]

Dyno? 1/4 times?

[zpiloto]

Well, depending on your average I suppose it is.

Okay 1-2 mpg in the summer. :D
Are you saying this is from a catch can? Has anybody tested this? I thing all you would get is to empty it every 3000 miles.

[90CivicStandard]

Dyno? 1/4 times?

No dyno times. I street tuned it. Well, I gave it a rough tune then went to the drag strip and fine tuned it there. I would datalog all of my 1/4 mile runs then go back over my AF ratios and play with my timing to see how it affected the run.

The best I was able to pull in the 1/4 was 13.6 on street tires. It would burn the tires all the way through 3rd if I pushed it. It was definately a fun setup.

I got pretty good milage with it as well believe it or not. When I only boosted a few times a day and drove mostly in vacuum I saw an increase of 3-6 mpg over what I was getting NA. But on those sunny Friday afternoons when I would blast down the high way at full boost... well, FE went out the window. lol

[95metro]

Are you saying this is from a catch can? Has anybody tested this? I thing all you would get is to empty it every 3000 miles.

No, nobody has tested it (unless you want to include the laughable testamonials related to the "condensator" :D ). 1-2 mpg is just a number I pulled out of the air to say how much the sludge removal may gain over time. I probably should have said 1-2% mpg, but on my Metro 1-2% is up to 1 mpg or slightly higher.

Sorry for the confusion. I would like to test one of these, but I think you'd have to do it over a long time/distance and that may allow for too many variables.

[zpiloto]

No, nobody has tested it (unless you want to include the laughable testamonials related to the "condensator" :D ). 1-2 mpg is just a number I pulled out of the air to say how much the sludge removal may gain over time. I probably should have said 1-2% mpg, but on my Metro 1-2% is up to 1 mpg or slightly higher.

Sorry for the confusion. I would like to test one of these, but I think you'd have to do it over a long time/distance and that may allow for too many variables.
I agree. Why don't car manufactors put these in at the factory.:confused::confused: They cost nothing and Jiffy lube could empty them during the oil change.

[SVOboy]

Because it's easy enough to just let the stuff burn up and I assume they'd assume that people would forget about them and they'd get clogged or that jiffy lube would do the same, hell, if jiffy lube can let a oil pan bolt fall out they can mess up the can or forget it.

[zpiloto]

Good Point.:( I forgot the only thing most drivers want to do is turn on the AC.:p

[SVOboy]

You can also figure that most people would just empty it into their neighbors' lawns, :(

[ZugyNA]

i cant believe that guy is charging 180 for a catch can...

I'm begining to suspect it also has a platinum catalyst in it.

[SVOboy]

What's that mean?

[95metro]

I contacted Tony at http://www.fuelsaving.info/ to ask for his opinion regarding PCV catch-cans and the "Condensator". I know he doesn't do testing on these products, but I trust his opinion since he has done lab testing for years and years. He's an auto-engineer that knows this topic inside and out. Anyway, here is what his reply was:

I have seen the "Condensator" before, but (as you suspect) am sceptical of it. Their test data seems just as bad as all the other "dubious" products (no drive-cycle tests, no A-B-A, etc) and as with all these things, how come a "fantastic" product, that has been around for decades, hasn't become more widely known and used?

As far as the operating principle goes, they are right that a certain amount of fumes and unburnt fuel comes through the crankcase breather system (PCV), but this then flows into the intake system and gets burnt. If the "condensator" traps and filters out the more "sludgy" elements of this then it may help to keep the engine internals clean, especially on an old/worn engine, but I don't see why that should lead to any dramatic improvements in economy or performance.

At $180, it seems way overpriced. As you say, you could build one for a tenth of that.

PS: I didn't ask for permission to quote him...I don't think he would mind though. There will probably be a writeup on his site soon.

[ZugyNA]

I have the technical knowledge to come up with a lot of reasons why various things shouldn't work.

In the case of the Condensator...the only fair test would be to buy one...install it on several different vehicles and test it?

I've built a couple of PCV jars for less than $10 each...didn't see any mpg gains though.

[thisisntjared]

it SEEMS i got some gains from the catch can, but i also cleaned out my intake manifold when i installed it. the catch can is supposed to catch all the crap that would make the im dirty anyway. i still think its a worth while mod, especially for turbo applications. however as the saying has been going on around here: it is no magic bullet

[90CivicStandard]

I checked my catch can again yesterday and found this much oil in it after approximately 300 miles.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/lincolnwilcox/1990%20Civic%20STD/catchcan.jpg

It seemed like it filled up pretty quickly, I mean 300 miles really isn't that much. I would think at this rate it would be full after 1500 or so miles, which means I am going to have to empty it more often than I change my oil. I guess that doesn't really matter though since I am under the hood almost every day tinkering with one thing or another.

Here's how I have mine set up:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/lincolnwilcox/1990%20Civic%20STD/catchcan2.jpg

You can see it zip tied to my clutch cable. I used fuel line hose because that's all I had handy at the time, it seems to be working out just fine.

As far as any FE improvements, well, it's hard to tell. But I do feel good knowing that all that gunk is now in the catch can instead of in my intake manifold or on the tops of my pistons.

[SVOboy]

Take the filter out of the inside of the thing, it'll get clogged and then the oil won't fall out.

[SupraRXZ]

you can get bigger filters right? I think im gunna do an oil change first before i go do this, or do it all at once tonite

[SVOboy]

You can get bigger ones, yes.

On another note: If you're getting milky junk in there you have a blown headgasket! Yay, it's a diagnostic tool as well.

[SupraRXZ]

Did an oil change and got one from HD, Putting it on was sorta a *****, but in the tube there was hecka gunk in there already so i cleaned it out, and well hopefully it works good

[ZugyNA]

Real cheap and easy PCV jar:

* find a location for one...a good idea is somewhere it will get heat from the rad so the water will evaporate out.

* go the the grocery and by a glass jar of pickles (or ?) with a metal lid or maybe plastic.

* by some low pressure fuel line about the same diameter as your current PCV line.

* take a large tapered punch and put some holes in the metal lid...or drill some in plastic. These must be undersized relative to the OD of the gas line.

* cut the line to length and force them into the lid...having the INLET line going down about 1/2 the depth of the jar. The OUTLET line needs to be just inside the lid. Some silicone caulk will help to seal them if used around the top of the lines.

* purchase a copper or stainless scrubber and tear it apart...putting some of the mesh in the bottom 1/2 of the jar....leave no lose pieces.

* you can make a wire cage to hold the jar...or you might find a space where it will fit. If there is any problem with possible breakage...use some foam tape or innertube rubber to protect the outside of the jar.

* size the jar so you don't have to empty it too often...a pint jar is about right.

[SupraRXZ]

do you know how to empty it after it gets filled or replace the filter? or do i just go buy a new one everytime?

[SVOboy]

You need to take the filter out of the middle before you install it! It just clogs and prevents the oil from falling out. You can empty it by unscrewing the clear plastic reservior and pouring the oil into your oil collection thing.

[SupraRXZ]

uhhh ohh, how do i take it out? just twist it and pull out the white filter?

[SVOboy]

It screws into the top I think, so unscrew the bottom and take it out (if I recall correctly, it's not terribly complicated).

[SupraRXZ]

It screws into the top I think, so unscrew the bottom and take it out (if I recall correctly, it's not terribly complicated).

got it off, there was some crap in there, you took yours out too right? cause from the first pics you had up on the DIY it shows it still on

[SVOboy]

I took mine out right after I put it on because I spaced on it until I was done the install.

[90CivicStandard]

If you take the filter out then how does the catch can extract the oil from the vapors? Wouldn't that negate the whole purpose?

[SVOboy]

The oil falls out because it is heavier, just look at mine. If you leave the filter in it will get clogged and the oil will not be able to make it's way into the jar and you will not longer be filtering anything.

[SupraRXZ]

If you take the filter out then how does the catch can extract the oil from the vapors? Wouldn't that negate the whole purpose?

thats what i was thinking at first

another thing is i posted up on another forum, they all were bashing saying that i didnt need to do this cause my car is stock

this is what they wrote
"First off, a oil catch can is to catch oil that may be contributed by blow by (mainly from high hp cars or turbo cars) Blow by ruins the air fuel mixture and can lower the octane level of your gasoline, thus making your car detonate.

A stock d series motor does not need an oil catch can. The stock PCV is perfect enough for it."

[95metro]

Those filters are for filtering air in regulated compressed air systems, not for filtering fluids. They saturate with fluids so quickly you would eventually negate the purpose of the catch can since oil would be blowing straight through the filter.

I still need to install one...:mad:

[thisisntjared]

thats what i was thinking at first

another thing is i posted up on another forum, they all were bashing saying that i didnt need to do this cause my car is stock

this is what they wrote
"First off, a oil catch can is to catch oil that may be contributed by blow by (mainly from high hp cars or turbo cars) Blow by ruins the air fuel mixture and can lower the octane level of your gasoline, thus making your car detonate.

A stock d series motor does not need an oil catch can. The stock PCV is perfect enough for it."ah let them think that. to a degree they are right. the higher hp motors especially turbo motors need a catch can more than the stock d. the effects on a turbo motor are much greater. which means buying a more expensive catch can would be justified.

however there are still benefits to having one on any car, so the $10 filter works just fine for the d. so my advice: let the morons have the thread. they have obviously never cracked open a d-series intake manifold and seen the tar from the pcv system. there is no need to fight with them since experience has much more leverage in changing someones mind than some guy online. just let them figure it out the hard way.

what everyone is saying about the filter is true, its too dense. steal wool would be idea for allowing the oil vapors to condense and probably the most effective "filtering" media, even though it technically doesnt filter.

[90CivicStandard]

Okay, I'll go ahead and take the filter out tonight. Would it be beneficial to add a bit of steel wool in there?

[thisisntjared]

Okay, I'll go ahead and take the filter out tonight. Would it be beneficial to add a bit of steel wool in there?steal wool would be idea for allowing the oil vapors to condense and probably the most effective "filtering" media, even though it technically doesnt filter.:Dthe more oil vapor that condenses, the less goes into the intake manifold.

[SupraRXZ]

I started modifying my filter, I cut the bottom part of the filter out but should i just add the steel wool in the bottom of the filter or just stick it in the bottle?

cause i think it might get clogged if i stuck it in the filter

[thisisntjared]

yea it probably would get clogged if you stuck it in the filter. you can cut the filter on the bottom, that would force the air to circulate more in the steal wool. using the existing filter like a little hose. test whatever out though, see if it works.

[90CivicStandard]

Ooh that's a good idea.

I took my filter out last night but didn't get around to adding steel wool. I think tonight I'll snip the bottom of the filter off and put a bit of steel wool in the bottom of the can.

[Condisales]

Although you fellows are quite a bit more civil than most boards.

Let me also point out the Condensator is not a catch can - works as one sure, however a lot more thought, science & money has gone into it.

One thing is do not use the air sep with the stone as it will clog, then you'll have oil ruuning up through the breather side of the PCV system, if the breather side is clogged, you'll push oil out of a seal.

As far as the beads go, PM me and I'll send you some. Whatever you do don't use "absorbant beads," they'll clog.

Do not put the material collected back into the crankcase - 95 metro has nailed it. In fact for 95 metro - pm me with an engine size & address I'll send you a free unit.

If you decide to build one on your own, make absolutely certain you do not create a situation which causes a vacuum leak. A vacuum leak is the devil. If your fuel delivery system (fuel injection) is working properly, the programing will compensate and add more fuel to the fuel air mixture and create a rich mixture, thus you'll be losing mileage. Even an almost imperceptible leak will create the above state.

So I'd advise against ZugyNA's method. Vacuum is strong stuff, especially when volume is involved.

Some rather "inventive" methods here on a Subaru board:
http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38290&pp=10

BTW - there has been extensive testing on the Condensator, nothing recent (A-B-A, FTP 75, US06, etc.), we'll get to it soon enough. As mentioned earlier it takes money. If you take the time to download the PDF located here: http://www.condensatorsales.com/html/declaration_e_w__bush.html

You can read what the Navy had to say and how they tested.

Hope this Helps,

Tom

[ZugyNA]

So I'd advise against ZugyNA's method. Vacuum is strong stuff, especially when volume is involved.

I've used quart sized glass PCV jars in a 4WD vehicle and offroad camping on rough trails...not a problem. Jar was protected by foam tape.

Newer jars will likely be pint sized though...large enough not to need emptying too often.

Can you say what kind of beads you think are used in the Condensator?

Some people are getting good mpg gains from using an "ozone air bleed" where air is routed thru the distributor and into the intake...and with EFI cars. Contrary to popular opinion...I think in some cases...an air bleed forces the O2 sensor to control mixture in more situations and causes more complete combustion prior to this control.

If you are selling the Condensator...I recommend you lower the price to around $100. ;-) There's a lot of competition in the mpg savings area and some things don't work...people burned etc. Not saying the Condensator doesn't work...I "think" it probably does....just no way of knowing.

[95metro]

Do not put the material collected back into the crankcase - 95 metro has nailed it. In fact for 95 metro - pm me with an engine size & address I'll send you a free unit.

Nailed it? What did I nail? That user testamonials are all hokus? Sorry, I was just a little uncertain about what I nailed.

But are you serious? Do you really want to send me a free unit for testing?

[Condisales]

ZugyNA - We'd love to get the price down under $100 - however it's not going to happen any time soon. Maybe within a year or so.


95 metro - you wrote :Those filters are for filtering air in regulated compressed air systems, not for filtering fluids.

Tom

[95metro]

So, what do you think, guys? Should I take the free Condensator?

Condisales says they don't have much feedback from Metro owners and my "review" could not be used as a user testamonial since it was a free unit. I guess as long as I posted a review of the product on Gassavers then people who actually look for information could find it and judge for themselves.

I'm not certain how I could quantify any results as yet, plus I haven't even owned the car long enough to have a yearly or normal baseline established as to my average FE.

I think I could objectively test it even though I have my doubts as to its actual fuel-saving capabilities.

Worse comes to worse, I guess it's a free catchcan. :D What do you think?

Maybe MetroMPG would be the better recipient since he's the testing guru.

[SVOboy]

Darin doesn't drive enough miles though, oh my! I say: go for it, captain.

[kickflipjr]

It seems like my catch can filled up faster when i was driving more highway.

Real cheap and easy PCV jar:

* find a location for one...a good idea is somewhere it will get heat from the rad so the water will evaporate out.

* go the the grocery and by a glass jar of pickles (or ?) with a metal lid or maybe plastic.

* by some low pressure fuel line about the same diameter as your current PCV line.

* take a large tapered punch and put some holes in the metal lid...or drill some in plastic. These must be undersized relative to the OD of the gas line.

* cut the line to length and force them into the lid...having the INLET line going down about 1/2 the depth of the jar. The OUTLET line needs to be just inside the lid. Some silicone caulk will help to seal them if used around the top of the lines.

* purchase a copper or stainless scrubber and tear it apart...putting some of the mesh in the bottom 1/2 of the jar....leave no lose pieces.

* you can make a wire cage to hold the jar...or you might find a space where it will fit. If there is any problem with possible breakage...use some foam tape or innertube rubber to protect the outside of the jar.

* size the jar so you don't have to empty it too often...a pint jar is about right.
So you can make a catchcan out of anything with an inlet/outlet for air? Seems easy and cheap enough.

[ZugyNA]

So, what do you think, guys? Should I take the free Condensator?

Condisales says they don't have much feedback from Metro owners and my "review" could not be used as a user testamonial since it was a free unit. I guess as long as I posted a review of the product on Gassavers then people who actually look for information could find it and judge for themselves.

I'm not certain how I could quantify any results as yet, plus I haven't even owned the car long enough to have a yearly or normal baseline established as to my average FE.

I think I could objectively test it even though I have my doubts as to its actual fuel-saving capabilities.

Worse comes to worse, I guess it's a free catchcan. :D What do you think?

Maybe MetroMPG would be the better recipient since he's the testing guru.


Condisales is supposed to be sending me one. Just give it a fair test?

[95metro]

Yeah, I'll be fair about it, but until I get a MID there probably won't be any definitive results and I think because of how it works and what it is connected to that an A-B-A test will prove absolutely nothing.

Plus, tank to tank tests are already extremely variable so I doubt we are going to see any kind of repeatable results at all.

[zpiloto]

Yeah, I'll be fair about it, but until I get a MID there probably won't be any definitive results and I think because of how it works and what it is connected to that an A-B-A test will prove absolutely nothing.

Plus, tank to tank tests are already extremely variable so I doubt we are going to see any kind of repeatable results at all.
You're right about not having the sMID and the tank to tank varibility but if it gets the results claimed you won't need the sMID. 20% of 55MPG is 11MPG. Which as you know is a huge gain, more than the normal 2-3 MPG usually seen. If you don't change the driving techniques or add any other mods that will take a lot of the varibility out of it. :D So just hook it up and see what happens and let the chips fall were they may.

[ZugyNA]

Best comparison might be the Suburu Legacy at EPA 23 to 25 mpg combined. With a gain of 4.5 mpg...this = around a 19% gain.

But every car is different..............as the saying goes.

With my Tercel 4WD 1.5L...baseline in the summer is around 30 mpg combined....and I generally drive it consistantly. So if I see 35-36 mpg I'll probably notice it.

[ZugyNA]

It seems like my catch can filled up faster when i was driving more highway.
So you can make a catchcan out of anything with an inlet/outlet for air? Seems easy and cheap enough.

These are pretty specific plans...derived from some experience. Use this design or learn on your own?

[SVOboy]

Updated and www.crxmpg.com/pcv.html

If anyone has pictures to show the thing in action, lemme know, :)

[kickflipjr]

So, after 2,000 or so miles my catch can is nearly full.

[SVOboy]

Mine totally dropped off on the fill rate, Iono why, but I don't mind, :p

[zpiloto]

After I hooked mine up for about two tanks it was full of this yellowish substance. I thought that the head gasket was going but it stopped and I have not seen anything since. I'll put it on any car I own. Mine need to be empty about every 3000 miles.

[UfoTofU]

I installed one about 1000 miles ago. The gasket between the plastic resevoir that fills up and the threaded head of the filter itself keeps moving out of place. Like it is getting sucked into the resevoir. Is this normal? Is the vacuum enough to move the gasket out of place?

[TomO]

Not to step on any toes here, but a slightly cheaper version of this DIY catch Can can be had at your local auto parts store. I did the exact same thing as SVOboy in principal but spent less. I purchased a FRAM fuel filter #G3 for $4 and placed it in the valve cover vent and the PCV system, like so:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid218/p208b3de8e8c0908c5c977c9734c35af1/ec39b733.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid218/p9f11a35748606dfffd00192145e722bc/ec3a2a99.jpg

[SVOboy]

Noice!

[thisisntjared]

um that filter looks like it will clog WAAY to quick with oil. other than that, sweet!! i would cut a small hole somewhere to let the pcv system continue to do its job even when clogged, by small hold i mean 1mm diameter.

[TomO]

Yeah, the filter is small in stature but I check it daily. The one that runs from the valve cover to the intake tube has been on for over a week with not even a hint of oil in it. The one that is on the PCV system has about 3 drops of oil in it now and has been on for 4 days. They are easy to pop off and drain when/if they begin to fill up.

[onegammyleg]

um that filter looks like it will clog WAAY to quick with oil. .

True . it will clog.
The air flow of that fiuel filter will also be less that what you generate with blowby , so you can expect oil leaks from everywhere., and made much worse when that paper element gets soaked in oil , blowby will not pass then at all.

PSSSSSSSS - POP

Its a sucky idea :thumbdown:

[civicduty_]

http://xs305.xs.to/xs305/06351/DSC00113.JPG (http://xs.to)


So I decided to give this DIY oil catchcan a try and see what's develops. My first thought was to pay a visit to Home Depot as SVoboy had suggested before but it was a good 30 min. drive compared to other stores nearby. So instinctively I took the shorter route, well that turned out to be a bad choice lol. Ace hardware had very limited products, Sears asked way too much for their Craftsman air line filter($38) and while at Pepboys, I took the chance to purchase some rubberized pvc hose. By this time I was losing hope and gas not to mention. Up next was between Lowes and Home Depot...Home Depot it was but sadly I could not use the same Husky $10 air line filter pictured above, it was not the appropriate size for my valve cover outlet. I had no choice but to choose the larger 100ml with 3/8" fittings. I'll post up some pics as soon as I have the chance to install, the cool night crept up on me so I grew weary.

[repete86]

There's a 100ml size? I should get that. My small one fills up very quickly and needs to be drained after almost every tank.

[nathan]

mine fills up even before my tank runs out. usually half of it is ice. i have to bring it inside and let it thaw before i can empty it.
a real pain but at least i know its doing its job.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l52/znate/car/pcv.jpg

[tjts1]

My catch can is a an old air filter use on large pneumatic industrial machines. Made out of nylon, lexan and stainless steel mesh, it is rated at 150 psi... not that its going to be seeing any positive pressure in this application. Its 5" tall by 2.5" wide.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/404043932_1529224bdb_o.jpg

The bottom half unscrews for easy cleaning.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/181/404043984_44cda54887_o.jpg

Installed between the crankcase oil separator and the intake hose.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/159/407173948_4de80433ce_o.jpg
I haven't driven it yet but I'll update when I put a few miles on the setup. The best part: It was free :D

[rh77]

After a body shop fooled with mine and sucked up the gunk into the intake manifold, I can't stress enough, the importance of securing the catch can to something. tjts1, it looks like you've done it right.

I can see most of us (including myself) having it hang mid-line and use the tightness of the connectors to ensure the proper alignment, but if it's bolted to something, the error of defeating the purpose of the device is minimalized.

For me, that would mean additional length of hose. Ensure that PCV hose is used. It can withstand the corrosive liquid, and the suction -- the parts store should know exactly what you're requesting (if not, run!) Outward pressure hoses like fuel lines don't take vacuum into consideration and can collapse under the Vac over time from heat in the engine bay.

RH77

[Red]

tjts1 where did you find a filter like that?

[tjts1]

We use them at work in some of the machines we manufacture. I got this one out of the junk pile after cleaning out the warehouse of parts we no longer use. Unfortunately it doesn't have a manufacturer brand on it. Just Made in USA. I'll ask around to see if I can find the manufacturer.

[civicduty_]

For some reason my oil catchcan is not catching any oil. I guess that's a good thing then haha. The direction of airflow from the valve cover to the throttlebody and the catchcan itself is specific so I know its installed correctly. The hose is 3/8" so its plenty large enough to pass 5W20, I guess as long as the crankcase is being vented i'll remain sound...any feedback. Will post pic soon I need to find a usb cable :confused:

[zpiloto]

For some reason my oil catchcan is not catching any oil. I guess that's a good thing then haha. The direction of airflow from the valve cover to the throttlebody and the catchcan itself is specific so I know its installed correctly. The hose is 3/8" so its plenty large enough to pass 5W20, I guess as long as the crankcase is being vented i'll remain sound...any feedback. Will post pic soon I need to find a usb cable :confused:

Sure your PCV valve is working? How many have you travel since install?

[rh77]

Sure your PCV valve is working?

Any can catch can should theoretically collect blow-by and reduce the gasses from vapor to liquid.

Ensure that the foam inner-plug has been removed, a secure seal is present on all connections (including the jar's twist top), and that the under-hood temps aren't too high. The vapor has to cool in order to condense.

[civicduty_]

Sure your PCV valve is working? How many have you travel since install?
My engine is not equiped with a pcv valve, it's mearly a pcv hose from valve cover to valve body. Since install i've already hit around 1,000 miles.

Ensure that the foam inner-plug has been removed, a secure seal is present on all connections (including the jar's twist top), and that the under-hood temps aren't too high. The vapor has to cool in order to condense.

The only internal pieces in the compressor air-line filter was a foam element filter which was removed, all ands of my pcv hoses are snug. There is no way my underhood temperature will in any be cool, I live in south Texas where average daily high temp. is @ around 105 degrees F...feedback :confused: Thnx for the replys.

[eivad1]

but can u do this on a carb crx with already a pcv valve

[TomO]

the catch can goes inline with the PCV line, so yes, it can be done on the CRX DX with the 1.5L D15B2 Engine.

[eivad1]

whats weird is that i have driven it for over 100 miles and not 1 drop in my catch can :(

[Jim Dunlop]

If you guys are so concerned about sludge build up on top of the pistons/rings and the back sides of the valves, you can do periodic MMO/Sea Foam piston soaks as well as more frequent treatments of MMO/Sea Foam/Distilled Water in the intake.

Water works especially nicely...the expanding steam blasts the living daylights out of any buildup. The first time I squirted water into my intake, I had a noticably smoother idle afterwards. Only do this with a warm engine with high RPM's in a controlled fashion. I have rigged up my car so that I can do it while driving, so the fact the car is in gear and moving means the risk of hydrolock is almost nil.

[popimp]

Does the PCV valve need to be removed? Also is this good for fuel injected vehicles?

[rh77]

Does the PCV valve need to be removed? Also is this good for fuel injected vehicles?

No to #1,

and, Yes to #2...

RH77

[andyj]

Just now installed - Do I cut the white filter off and reinsert the plastic pieces or do I remove all the plastic pieces all together? Looks like no redirect just a hole inside. Guessing that the catch will be there as it is the lowest and the coolest point either way as long as the filter is removed.
** Great idea here - small unit right for my no room engine compartment **
Let me know...

[andyj]

Found answer - the suggestion of 2mm hole in the bottom of the filter makes sense to me to prevent clogging but keep turbulence going. Surprising how tough this little white filter is, I drilled a 1/8" hole in the bottom.

Thank you - hope this posting helps others.
Let the testing begin.

Andy Johnson
Save on Gas:
http://tinyurl.com/22cnyh

[OleDawg55]

Why silica beads over copper BBs or maybe a Chore Girl copper pot scrubber? I'm looking for the best catalyst to put in my filter bowl. Any thoughts or experiences?

[SolidLiquidSnake]

I have one of those on my PVC but the thing is I don't have the filter, just the little catch can or jar that I used. It's worked wonders, I have gotten water/oil from getting into engine and it's not like I have to empty it everyday, it's small and never a lot of fluid in the can.

[Jim T.]

I've put one of these in the Mazdaspeed and it only has about an ounce of oil in it after 3k miles. And it's turbocharged.
I had one in my Contour and the intake and throttle body stayed MUCH cleaner after installing.
I don't understand why these are not standard on every car.

Jim T

[theholycow]

I don't understand why these are not standard on every car.

Probably because you'd have to empty them. People aren't used to removing fluids from their car, only adding or changing. If I understand correctly, the usual design is to burn off all that stuff.

[jprich]

...I think this is a great idea! I stopped by Home Depot but they only had a filter that had a release on the bottom of the reservoir. It was the Husky brand and kind of heavy. I passed on it and am going to check Lowes.

I got home and checked to see if I would need any extra hose and found this:

http://www.theix.net/mpg/which.jpg

Im thinking the hose I need to filter is #1 as it contains the pcv filter. If so would making that hose longer cause a reduction in efficiency?

If its NOT #1 which hose is it?