The great tire search of 2008

[kitcar]

That and Firefox is turning into a POS. I get almost done with this post and Firefox decides to update and freeze. Twice. Sweet. I even had a nice update about my last experiment (http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=7439) which has gotten my truck, Stinkerbutt, up to a repeatable 25.6 mpg going to and back from the shack (252.6 miles). The next goal is 30 mpg, the hardest of all to get to. I'm going to use a combination of the new tires and further aero modifications to the body.

For the THIRD attempt at posting, the tires on my truck are worn out and I'm using my handy federal rebate check for new ones (free money, free tires, how can I go wrong?). The current tires the Kelly brand and I am replacing them with Hankook RH03 tires that have an "above" average rolling resistance rating under the SAE J1269 tests, according to Consumer Reports (be prepared to dig for the results: Search for "rolling resistance", then "Blog: roll out the rolling resistance" THEN the link at the bottom of the blog entry, NOT the top one.). CR buys the J1269 results from (according to their blog) NERL (National Energy Research Laboratory). I've been doing the research since February and even called UMTRI (University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute) for some pointers. Now, the current worn out tires are very wide, over 9 inches of tread patch. The new tires have a tread patch of around 6.75 inches (same edge tread design - I'm told ribbed edges are the best for mileage by UMTRI)

My first attempt at ordering the RH03s met a dead end. I was also looking at the more expensive Michelin Cross Terrains and the Bridgestone D684, both with "above" average rolling resistance. Locally, the price is over $150 and no body can get them. Online at tirerack.com, the price is $81 + $20 shipping and they called me the next day to tell me that they can't even get a backorder on them; apparently, a manufacturer has bought the entire run from Hankook for a hybrid SUV. Four pages deep into Google, I found saveontires.com who actually, physically have them at $62 each, FREE shipping. I'll have them in hand next week.

Yeah, I know, 2% tops. 25.6 mpg + 2% = 26.1

[opelgt73]

Hey I noticed that you have three 0 MPG readings in your gas log that are taking your average down. You should delete those.

[kitcar]

"Warning: mysql_result() [function.mysql-result]: Unable to jump to row 0 on MySQL result index 15 in /includes/functions_garage.php on line 159"

And there's a division by zero error on line 136 when trying to delete the entries. It appears to be a module error that crops up in the coding. A tip for the admins: see bug #5929. It's actually not a bug but a limitation in MySQL, according to Konstantin Osipov. It's a "to be fixed later" bug/limitation. I should just delete the garage.

And so ends the great entry deletion marathon. Again.

[theholycow]

Great job on the research!

Here's the direct link to rolling resistance ratings that Consumer Reports has from NERL:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tires/index.htm

You'll need a CR membership to go further than that, unfortunately.

I'm not sure that narrower tires yield better rolling resistance. There are a few theories that say wider tires should be better; some of them make sense but are difficult to observe/measure, and others aren't really obvious but are measurable. There's two links in my sig about tire width and pressure, both of which cover both issues to some extent, if you have too much time and patience on your hand and need to spend some.

Spending more on LRR tires is generally not going to pay off, but in your case it sounds like you didn't pay much anyway!

[Jay2TheRescue]

Great job on the research!

Here's the direct link to rolling resistance ratings that Consumer Reports has from NERL:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tires/index.htm

You'll need a CR membership to go further than that, unfortunately.

I'm not sure that narrower tires yield better rolling resistance. There are a few theories that say wider tires should be better; some of them make sense but are difficult to observe/measure, and others aren't really obvious but are measurable. There's two links in my sig about tire width and pressure, both of which cover both issues to some extent, if you have too much time and patience on your hand and need to spend some.

Spending more on LRR tires is generally not going to pay off, but in your case it sounds like you didn't pay much anyway!
I don't have a CR membership, and probably most here don't. Would you be able to recommend a few tire brands/models that CR reports as having low RR? Maybe list say the top 2 passenger tires, truck tires, and performance tires? I'm tire shopping too. I've been looking at the either the Michelin XC LT4, or the Michelin LTX A/T2 for my truck next go round for tires.

Thanks, Jay

[theholycow]

That's a good point. I don't have a CR membership either. kitcar, can you also recommend some of the top scorers that have Load Range 'E', if possible? :)

[Jay2TheRescue]

Wikipedia has a short list that the gov't rated in 2003...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-rolling_resistance_tires

[Jay2TheRescue]

I have another good read from what I can see skimming through it. The state of California did a report on tire design and rolling resistance. If you can wade through the bureaucratic technobabble there are some good nuggets of info buried inside.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/2006publications/TRB-1000-2006-001/TRB-1000-2006-001.PDF

[kitcar]

Thanks for the compliments. I can get around the "issues" with copyright by writing a little review of their article. The ratings I paid attention to are the ones for light trucks/SUVs, but I'll take a gander at the passenger car tires. Gimmie a few hours and some beers and baseball while I write it.

The reason for my additional research is this quote, "The entire spectrum of tire technology has changed in the past 3 years" when I talked to UMTRI so (in my opinion) the 2003 data is too outdated to be of serious use. That said, as far as the truck/SUV ratings go, we see three brands with lower rolling resistance: Hankook, Michelin and Bridgestone but only some models and sizes. That is important but does it mean that only some sizes are tested or those are the ones that netted the best gains? That said, I see that the snow/ice/dry braking suffer with the lower resistance of some tires. Not an issue in my case since I have the limited slip option and 4 wheel anti-locks on Stinkerbutt.

I'll go write the review and post it as a reply to this thread.

[Jay2TheRescue]

Thanks... we shall await your review...

Jay

[theholycow]

:thumbup:

[kitcar]

Hey guys, I recently came across some interesting data about the rolling resistance of tires (wink, wink) while I was shopping for tires and thought I'd share it. One thing I've learned is that you have to absolutely pay attention to the price of the tire, the tread life and the rolling resistance. Too expensive of a tire at the time of purchase will make your fuel savings moot at the end. "I saved over $300 in gas on those $600 tires!"

Now. Pay attention to this. You in the back, are you paying attention? Stop playing with your Airtabs for two seconds, please! saveontires.com (http://savontires.com). Free FedEx ground shipping. NOTE that there is no www in the address! The tires I ordered from them cost $150 each in person, $81 ($10 each shipping) at tirerack.com and $64 (no shipping) at savontires.com. $600 plus in town, less than $300 online. That there is some serious change. A 2% increase in gas mileage from a good tire selection/price suddenly has a rather short payoff.

What I noticed is two things. First, rolling resistance (or lack thereof) has an effect on how the tire performs under stress. A tire that has a very low rolling resistance might as an example, not grip in snow as well as a tire with high rolling resistance.

Most all season passenger tires have pretty good rolling resistance ratings with the notable exception of the Pirelli P3000 and the Bridgestone Turanza LS-T. Both of those, oddly enough, also have very poor snow and ice performance.

The very best of the very best all season passenger car tires for increasing your gas mileage are the Michelin X Radial (available only through Sam's Club and Costco), the Michelin Agility Touring (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_09579303000P?vName=Automotive&cName=Tires&sName=All+Tires) (available only through Sears), the Toyo 800 (http://www.savontires.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=online&Category_Code=800-Ultra) Ultra and the Sumitomo HTR H4 (http://www.savontires.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=online&Category_Code=HTR-H4). It goes without saying that the Michelins will be the most expensive of the entire group with the Toyo and Sumitomo brands less expensive. This group of tires typically have poorer than average snow traction and ice braking characteristics with the exception of the Sumitomo which has above average snow traction characteristics while having a name that most people will mangle when trying to say it.

Other brands have models of tires that have lower than average rolling resistance like the Hankook Mileage Plus II H725 (who the heck comes up with these names?) and the Goodyear assurance Triple tread. Oddly, the Goodyear assurance comfort tread model has very poor braking and wet road performance but excellent rolling resistance. Two tires of the same model with vastly different characteristics is something the casual purchaser should be very wary of when shopping at your local tire outlet. You can't stop, but dang you're getting good mileage with them!

In the end, choosing a tire for gas mileage can be a trade-off in other safety features of the tire like being able to stop in a panic situation and moving in snow. As with their truck tires, the Hankook Dynapro AS RH03, Hankook's Mileage Plus II H725, on paper at least, should give the typical driver acceptable safety and also get some pretty good miles per gallon increases. If you're a member at one of the clubs, check out the Michelin mentioned above but be prepared to pay enough extra to make the gasoline savings moot over the life of the tire.

5 beers, for those keeping score at home.

[theholycow]

Great job! :cool: Any review on the light truck tires?

Was the Michelin Hydroedge mentioned at all? How about the BF Goodrich Long Trail?

Most all season passenger tires have pretty good rolling resistance ratings with the notable exception of the Pirelli P3000 and the Bridgestone Turanza LS-T. Both of those, oddly enough, also have very poor snow and ice performance.

The Turanza LS-T may be almost the same as the Turanza T that I really liked long before I was interested in FE. Its 80,000 mile treadwear warranty and appearance remind me of that model. Its low rolling resistance may be due to its long treadwear, which exceeded even the 80,000 miles they warranty them for now, or may be due to soft sidewalls with lots of deflection that required me to use a lot more air pressure for decent ride and handling.

If they are the same as the ones I had, they may offer better RR at higher pressure than specified by your car's label. That won't help people who already inflates to sidewall maximum, but for people who find such inflation causes bad handling, these tires could still work out well -- they handle well with higher inflation than other tires (though they handle worse at the same inflation). I'd still say don't get them unless you can get a really great deal on them, due to the high RR.

[kitcar]

The Long Trail was not tested. In fact I can't recall seeing any Goodrich's on the list. The Hydroedge (6th highest rated) was one that was tested and got good results but it's a pretty expensive donut.

By the way, I came across the humidifier for my old frog tank that is a perfect size for screwing around with a hydrogen generator. Even has little hose barbs on the top. Hmmmmmmm. Be a great chance to try that holding tank/regulator I had an idea about.

Anyways.

Truck tires? Did someone mention truck tires? I did all my research on all season light truck tires - no all terrains at all. I'll look at them later on.

The first two highest rated (overall) all season LT tires are the Goodyear Fortera HL Edition and the Pirelli Scorpion STR A. They both have very poor rolling resistance. The third highest rated tire, the Hankook Dynapro AS H03 has above average rolling resistance (the ones I bought). The Kelly Safari Signature (the tire that is on Stinkerbutt right now) also has very poor rolling resistance as does the Yokohama Geolander H/T-S G051 (what the heck and just name the thing "H/T-S195 G095-super-391 R856"). For those with deep pockets (which negates going for higher mileage), the Michelin Cross Terrain and the XC LT4 (Sears only) have excellent and good rolling resistance ratings in that order.

Other LT tires that are above average are the Hankook Dynapro RF06 (NOT the same as the AS RH03!), the General Ameritrac SUV ($ears only) the Uniroyal Laredo Cross Country and the Bridgestone Dueler H/T D684.

One thing I will point out is that not all the all season truck tires are available in all sizes. It took me almost 10 hours online to actually find the size/price/rolling resistance combination that I wanted in a 235-75R15. The sizes of all these tires are all over the place. That's not to say they aren't made, it's a matter of finding them at the price you want. They have the Bridgestones but $30 each more than the Hankooks which they don't have in the right size but you can pay the extra $70 each for the Michelins.

The advice I have on this deal is to be prepared to do a lot of Googling for what you want.

2 more beers for a total of 5.

[Jay2TheRescue]

The Long Trail was not tested. In fact I can't recall seeing any Goodrich's on the list. The Hydroedge (6th highest rated) was one that was tested and got good results but it's a pretty expensive donut.

By the way, I came across the humidifier for my old frog tank that is a perfect size for screwing around with a hydrogen generator. Even has little hose barbs on the top. Hmmmmmmm. Be a great chance to try that holding tank/regulator I had an idea about.

Anyways.

Truck tires? Did someone mention truck tires? I did all my research on all season light truck tires - no all terrains at all. I'll look at them later on.

The first two highest rated (overall) all season LT tires are the Goodyear Fortera HL Edition and the Pirelli Scorpion STR A. They both have very poor rolling resistance. The third highest rated tire, the Hankook Dynapro AS H03 has above average rolling resistance (the ones I bought). The Kelly Safari Signature (the tire that is on Stinkerbutt right now) also has very poor rolling resistance as does the Yokohama Geolander H/T-S G051 (what the heck and just name the thing "H/T-S195 G095-super-391 R856"). For those with deep pockets (which negates going for higher mileage), the Michelin Cross Terrain and the XC LT4 (Sears only) have excellent and good rolling resistance ratings in that order.

Other LT tires that are above average are the Hankook Dynapro RF06 (NOT the same as the AS RH03!), the General Ameritrac SUV ($ears only) the Uniroyal Laredo Cross Country and the Bridgestone Dueler H/T D684.

One thing I will point out is that not all the all season truck tires are available in all sizes. It took me almost 10 hours online to actually find the size/price/rolling resistance combination that I wanted in a 235-75R15. The sizes of all these tires are all over the place. That's not to say they aren't made, it's a matter of finding them at the price you want. They have the Bridgestones but $30 each more than the Hankooks which they don't have in the right size but you can pay the extra $70 each for the Michelins.

The advice I have on this deal is to be prepared to do a lot of Googling for what you want.

2 more beers for a total of 5.
I just wish that the rolling resistance was listed with the other tire specifications. You should not have to work this hard to find that information.

Its nice to know that the Michelin XC LT4 has decent RR. That is the tire my brother in law recommended to me. He manages the Quick Lane service at a local Ford dealer, and told me he could get those at a good price. Rusty has Michelin tires in him as well, I don't remember the exact model though. They still have pretty good tread left on them.

-Jay

[theholycow]

5 beers, for those keeping score at home.

2 more beers for a total of 5.

Sounds like they're working.

The Long Trail was not tested. In fact I can't recall seeing any Goodrich's on the list. The Hydroedge (6th highest rated) was one that was tested and got good results but it's a pretty expensive donut.

That's too bad about the Long Trail, those come stock on lots of trucks and wear pretty long, and they're not too expensive. The Hydroedge is a surprise, I googled it and folks reported that they thought it had high rolling resistance. It's got a 90,000 mile treadwear warranty, and may pay off even at higher prices.

[Jay2TheRescue]

Sounds like they're working.



That's too bad about the Long Trail, those come stock on lots of trucks and wear pretty long, and they're not too expensive. The Hydroedge is a surprise, I googled it and folks reported that they thought it had high rolling resistance. It's got a 90,000 mile treadwear warranty, and may pay off even at higher prices.
Better than these Coopers on my truck. They're on their last legs, and they only have 42,000 miles on them. I'm going to replace them by the end of the summer.

-Jay

[kitcar]

I just wish that the rolling resistance was listed with the other tire specifications. You should not have to work this hard to find that information.

-Jay

Well, Jay, as near as I've been able to figure out by reading between the lines, you can purchase the data. And therein lies the rub since it takes specialty equipment to run the test (like dynometers used to be). However. I would think that the NREL and or the EPA or California all of whom are apparently demanding the tests which are government agencies would get off the dime and publish the findings instead of a governmentese PDF file with no useful information whatsoever. 2003 data my butt. It's not like they started doing these ratings yesterday.

But that's me, I expect my government to work for me instead of ruling over me. (where's that middle finger smilie when you need it?).

Which is the answer to the question, in my opinion. Consider the following scenario. The push for higher fuel economy (especially for existing vehicles) dictates better rolling resistance in the tires as part of the solution since once we all start using E85 our mileage will drop 40% (but by then it will cost 20% more than regular gas because of corn future prices and the cost to convert the tanker trucks to E85). But the physics of tires dictates that something has to be given up in order to get that lower resistance, wet traction, braking, snow traction, etc.. Let the government hearings and lawsuits begin.

I can see it now, the invisible flames of alcohol burning and the massive hydrogen explosion caused by the low rolling resistance tires that slid on the snow covered highway that causes the avalanche (which wipes out the rare Western Turquoise Winter Cricket) that will be blamed on global warming because the hot air rose too high and fell as snow but the carbon in the snow caused it to be extra heavy and slippery. And all of it because of "Big Tire" and the hiding of the safety issues of low rolling resistance tires which will cause tire and rubber futures to go through the roof and (of course) tires will then only last 100 miles and cost $400. Each. But, hey the Europeans have been paying $800 per tire for years so the days of cheap tires are over and who are we to be so arrogant that we can drive on snow anytime we want in the first place?

Not to mention the warning labels on the the tires. So the real answer is politics. Who is going to buy tires that will actually lower gas mileage? The Big Rubber lobby is behind the withholding of the data, probably.

Why weren't we warned about the cost in safety the lament will be. Hey, I could be one of those "mileage consultants" on CNN when they need them! "Now joining us is mileage safety consultant..."

Here's a good one. I'm talking to my Mom last night and she says that I should look into this "Hypodriving" thing everyone is talking about. "Uh, Mom......what in the hell do you think all that crap hanging off my truck is for"?

The score is now 8 beers.

[Jay2TheRescue]

Here's a good one. I'm talking to my Mom last night and she says that I should look into this "Hypodriving" thing everyone is talking about. "Uh, Mom......what in the hell do you think all that crap hanging off my truck is for"?

The score is now 6 beers.

2 comments...



Hypodriving... Hypo is a greek prefix meaning below, or under. I would imagine a "hypodriver" is one who specializes in driving in tunnels, and under bridges.. ;)

I think your mother owes you a beer as well. :)

-Jay

[theholycow]

by then it will cost 20% more than regular gas because of corn future prices and the cost to convert the tanker trucks to E85

http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/04/gm-ethanol-partner-announces-pilot-plant.html

[RoadWarrior]

IMO you get the best balance between low RR and all season traction with a tire that has a solid center rib and shoulder blocks that have a lot of sipes.

[kitcar]

http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/04/gm-ethanol-partner-announces-pilot-plant.html

Sweet. It only took me one day to drag my own post off topic. I rock!

"The demonstration plant, Coskata says, will start early next year and run 24 hours a day to produce about 40,000 gallons of cellulosic ethanol derived from almost any organic waste material"

Do you have any idea what that means?? They can make my videos into fuel! I won't ever have to buy gas again. Ever!

31 gallons per barrel, 47,000 barrels a year from this type of plant. I'd sure hate to have to run my vehicle on alcohol. But we have to do what we have to do. Make it at .50 a gallon and I'll buy it.

As an aside, here in Michigan "they" are running ads on the radio about how the corn they use for fuel isn't the corn humans eat so it's a-okay. It's field corn. They don't mention that animal feeds are made from it. I'm so glad that my bag of frozen corn won't go up. Too bad sweet corn on the cob is now 3 for $2.00. Last year it was 12/$2.00. Sets my mind at ease.

Here's a great factoid about garbage/energy reuse. When I was in the digital repair business one of our customers was in the Methane business. What they do is tap land fills, extract the methane and run turbines on it. In the area where I live, we get 20% of our power from their plants in the area, Ann Arbor, Flint just to name two. I'll check and see if they'll let me post their web site. Doesn't have anything to do with FE but what the heck, electric plug in cars use it.

[theholycow]

Sweet. It only took me one day to drag my own post off topic. I rock!

And an unspecified quantity of beers. Your math started failing after 5.

31 gallons per barrel, 47,000 barrels a year from this type of plant.

They also mentioned in the article that it's not enough to bother selling, but GM is going to use it for testing cars. The plant is just a proof-of-concept, but it should scale up well, I'd assume.

I'm so glad that my bag of frozen corn won't go up. Too bad sweet corn on the cob is now 3 for $2.00. Last year it was 12/$2.00. Sets my mind at ease.

You are being taken advantage of by local sellers. In the bulk market, farmers aren't getting paid more for corn, but their costs are way up for petroleum-based fertilizers/pesticides and all the energy they use to grow/harvest the corn. That is the report directly from farmers on a truck forum. Fresh sweet corn on the cob here isn't any more expensive than it has ever been.

If you think about it, the reason cited for corn prices is increased demand; but in fact, the US government was paying farmers to NOT farm their corn so as not to flood the market. They're still getting subsidies. I don't think they're running near capacity yet.

Corn just isn't as large a portion of the cost of food as big media wants you to believe. It's just not as prevalent or as expensive an ingredient. If you consider the energy and other ingredients that go into any given piece of food between the time the big conglomerate buys the raw corn from the farmer and the time you take the Hungry Man out of your freezer, you'll see where the real cost comes from. The whole misguided thought process that corn ethanol is to blame for food prices is a smoke-and-mirrors diversion to distract people from the large-scale results of such an increase in cost of energy.

the Methane business. What they do is tap land fills, extract the methane and run turbines on it.

It's actually very cool. When I was little, I'd go with my dad to the landfill to dump construction debris, and they had HUGE barrels sticking out of the "mountain" just burning what looked like huge campfires. Now they harvest it and make heat/power from it.

[itjstagame]

Kitcar, the sumitomos sound nice. Any suggestions for 13"? The Festy I just got needs tires and they're 12" stock! But I'm going to try to find some 13" rims that fit and go with 13" for the tire selection as I'd really like a nice LRR that's perhaps a bit taller (5-10%).

Any thoughts?

Jay, Hypo doesn't mean under as in under a bridge, it means less than. That is, Hyper means over or more, Hypo means under or less. So a Hypermiler gets more milage a Hypomiler would have to go out of his way to decrease his milage. Which I guess fits the bill for all drivers that speed around me 200ft before a stop light at WOT, unless the EPA takes those drivers into account as the 'average' citizen.

This actually is funny you mentioned that because my friend and I were talking the other day that we should start a gaswasters.com site for fun, fill it full of fake profiles with hummers and guys talking about hook sheets of wood vertically to the truck and adding as much weight as they can and seeing how low they can get their tire pressure and still drive :-). Gaswasters.com the home of hypomiling!

EDIT: Wow that's weird, some of their tires are free shipping but even if I pick ones that don't claim free shipping, I get two shipping options, FedEx Ground for $38 or FedEx Ground Cont 48 States $0. Odd....

Also they have R12s for cheaper than tirerack did, maybe I should just get a set, but cheaper is still $50/tire which I think could get me something nice if I knew where to look.

I want ultimate summer, dry traction and ultimate miles. So if I could get somehow really high treadwear 80k tires that I could pump up to 60psi or so I'd be really happy. I already have really nice snow tires for winter. I guess wet/rain traction can't be overly bad since dieing is uncool.

[Jay2TheRescue]

You do realize I was joking when I said that... It was followed with a ;)

[itjstagame]

Yeah, and I wasn't trying to razz you or anything, just saying the joke of hypomiler with SUV and low tire pressure instead. I really think that'd be funny idea to poke fun at the general public.

[thornburg]

EDIT: Wow that's weird, some of their tires are free shipping but even if I pick ones that don't claim free shipping, I get two shipping options, FedEx Ground for $38 or FedEx Ground Cont 48 States $0. Odd....

Also they have R12s for cheaper than tirerack did, maybe I should just get a set, but cheaper is still $50/tire which I think could get me something nice if I knew where to look.

I want ultimate summer, dry traction and ultimate miles. So if I could get somehow really high treadwear 80k tires that I could pump up to 60psi or so I'd be really happy. I already have really nice snow tires for winter. I guess wet/rain traction can't be overly bad since dieing is uncool.

Maybe I'm tired & unobservant, but I couldn't find a mention of who "they" are... Who has free shipping and cheaper tires than tirerack?

Oh, and dying definately is uncool. Make sure you get something with good wet traction, unless you just park the car and take a bus anytime it rains.

[itjstagame]

Oh, yeah, savontires.com, that's where the OP got his tires.

[shatto]

November 2008 Consumer Reports
100 Top Products issue

SUV & Pickup Tires, Page 46.

All tested on on a 2007 Silverado and 2007 Suburban for;
dry and wet braking, handling and hydropaning resistance and the usual CS tests, including MPG.

All-Season Tires
General, Continental, Kumho, Cooper....then, Michelin

All-Terrain Tires
Pirelli, Yokohama, Bridgestone.....Michelin

Winter Tires
Michelin, Bridgestone

[Jay2TheRescue]

I replaced my Cooper tires on my truck with Michelins. I hated the Coopers. Darn things were worn out in 40,000 miles, and I don't drive hard on them either.

-Jay

[ZugyNA]

That and Firefox is turning into a POS. I get almost done with this post and Firefox decides to update and freeze. Twice. Sweet.

Tools > Options > Advanced > Update.... disable updates and you won't have that problem?

[ZugyNA]

Here's how tI do it....


I have a few observations on choosing tires and a method I use?not the only method out there?but about the best I?ve found.

I basically go to?.

http://www.tirerack.com/

I use tirerack.com because there is an extensive number of reviews and some tests on various tires.

No need to purchase the tires here?but they do have good prices.

I usually have decided what size tire I want to buy?usually maybe 2% to 3% over sized for better mpg. I use this page to calculate what size I want to look for and what the % difference will be from the original tires:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/tireinfo4calc.html

How to SEARCH for a good tire:

* Go to tirerack.com using the link above

* I SEARCH for tires by TIRE SIZE?..and I usually am searching for ALL-SEASON tires?.so I CHECK those various boxes that pertain to these type tires.

* After the search?I then rank the tires by PRICE.

* I then CHECK the first so many tires?maybe 5-7 of the lowest priced?.then click COMPARE.

* Then on the left in the Customer Survey area I look at SNOW TRACTION?.followed by WET TRACTION?and DRY TRACTION?looking for higher numbers.

Then considering price, traction, and tread wear?I carefully go through the REVIEWS, SURVEYS, and any TESTS for any tire that looks good.

Not everyone is going to like a certain tire?.but I can usually tell from the majority of the reviews what the tire is probably going to be like to own.

My ?THEORY? as far as Low Rolling Resistance tires is that YES?the OEMs put LRR tires on their new cars?but if you read some of the reviews?a lot of people can?t wait to get them off of their cars?usually due to poor traction. Eventually they might come up with good LRR tires though.

The method I use finds good high traction tires that I can then put enough PSI in to have lower rolling resistance along with good traction year around?.and I usually get a good deal at the same time.

The PSI in the glove box is only a start?after market tires are sometimes made in a much different way?I usually test various pressures?going with as high a PSI that I can and still have good cornering and traction.

I usually end up a few lbs under the sidewall max pressure. If one end of the car is lighter in weight?best to keep that axle a couple of lbs below the heavier end?

Bottom line for me is finding the best tire for the price?and the best traction and handling the tires are capable of?cause you never know when you?re going to need it.

As far as tires for 4WD?my belief is that for avg use?a regular passenger all season tire with a good sticky tread as found by the method above?will likely give the best road mileage and mpg.

I ran some Kumho 60 series?as an example?through some rough terrain on a 4X4?.and though the treads were cut up and abraded some?the sidewalls were still in good condition.

You can spend almost 2Xs as much for the same size tire?and get less tire for your efforts in some cases.

Note: You should use your own judgment if applying any of these ideas or methods...as they are only my opinions....not facts.

...

I now run these Kumhos at 44 PSI...their sidewall max. If you take out the sidewall flex...you then only have tread squirm holding you back? But you still have some decent traction.

I run some 35 PSI max tires on a truck at 35 front and 33 back.

[froggy81500]

Haven't been on in awhile but I did spot this thread. After scanning through it I noticed the Goodyear comfortread mentioned. And just as they are mentioned, they are indeed not the greatest traction on snow and wet. I know, they are the stock tire on my Ion. Wear is not that great either. My original set were looking pretty shabby with about 42K miles on them, less than half tread left. I ended up with newer ones in July when my wife's Ion with just shy of 18K miles was totalled. I didn't want the same tires but grabbed them while I could. I have been keeping them inflated around 40 psi, although with the current temperature around here, I have to check them now. I have been satisfied with the mileage I am getting, mid 30's with a 5 speed. Got close to 40 over the summer, but not quite.