-- WAI -- The debate of where to route it...

[trautotuning]

Air right behind the radiator
Since the coolant passing through it is regulated to around 180 degrees, the air coming out is always at a certain temp and there is no chance of it exceeding (lets say) 220 degrees... so it is much more controllable and better in my opinion. Again the air that the engine will be sucking out of the radiator should be around 180 degrees most of the time.

Right by the exhaust manifold
This would provide much higher temperatures (maybe), but it is uncontrollable as to how hot it can get.


.... ??

[BEEF]

I used the exhaust manifold because the temp of the radiator is 180 but the air has to be warmed up as it passes by the heat source. you have to have a significantly hotter heat source then the end temperature you want for this reason. if the water temp is 180 then the air passing over the hose will never get over 180 but may also never get anywhere near 180 because it doesn't have time to soak up much heat from the hose before it is sucked into the eingine.

I am sure that my header has gotten much hotter than the 179 max that I have seen on my intake. the fact of the matter is that the air just doesn't have the time to take enough heat from the source in the small amount of time it has passing over it in transit.

I have seen headers glow cherry red. I don't know what temp it takes to do this but I am pretty sure that it is well above 180 or even 220. I say that if you are having issues with intake too hot, then space your intake tube farter away from the header or just don't use a heat shield.

[almightybmw]

For some, using the exhaust manifold isn't possible. Mine are not that large, and fully wrapped in heat shields. Due to the V6 design, routing the air to a viable heat pickup point puts it directly under the throttle body and subsequent air intake piping. I have yet to figure out the optimal placement besides just placing it behind the radiator.

And the last time I saw a header glow was after a 15 mile super sprint in the 626 GT; the turbo was quite hot!

[trautotuning]

Well I was planning on placing a gutter type shield right in the radiator so air could be trapped and actually be heated up like so...

http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/038561/038561011029md.jpg

(Just to give you an idea of a little box to trap the air)

And then simply connect the air tube to that box.

[theholycow]

There won't be trapped air, because the intake is still going to suck it through.

[BEEF]

if you think about the volume of air going into the engine, think about the exhaust. I know that the air has expanded because of heat, but for a simple comparison. see how much the exhaust is blowing out. that should give you an idea of the amount of air going in. it is going to be hard to quickly heat that volume of air using a source that is the exact temp that you want the air.

someone else has mentioned running the air over the cats. well, sucking the air from around the cats because they get pretty hot too. that might be a solution if you can't get to the header

when I say header, I mean exhaust manifold. I am WAY too cheap to actually put money into a performance header.

[2000mc]

almightybmw - assuming youre thinking of the grand prix, and if youre using the stock airbox, be mindful that the pcm is in the airbox

[almightybmw]

almightybmw - assuming youre thinking of the grand prix, and if youre using the stock airbox, be mindful that the pcm is in the airbox
Yeah, I'm aware of that. From reading CAI installs I know where I could place it without affecting too much. So far the only places I've found that endorses WAI are the FE forums, and I haven't found anyone who has done a WAI on a GP on my years. And the GP forums don't support power robbing mods, so they get bashed pretty hard.

I'll keep studying my diagrams and fsms, see what I can produce.

[dkjones96]

On most FWD cars you could place the pod filter, or whatever you decide to use, between the engine and rad fan. Most FWD cars have the exhaust manifold to the front of the car too. This of course won't work on a FWD V6.

What do you drive? Got a pic of the engine bay?

[trautotuning]

No thats the thing my exhaust manifold is in the back so the tube would be pretty long... I dont know if there is a maximum length but it looks pretty long to me that why the radiator (RIGHT in front of the airbox) seems better....

[BEEF]

can you post a pic of the engine? as long as there is still a fairly straight path and you use an adequate size tube, you should be fine doing that.

http://www.gassavers.org/garage/view/1372

if you look at my pics, I could have possibly put the hole in my airbox further back and routed it to the back of the engine if it were set up like yours (I am assuming a lot with that statement). I personally am seeing intake temps between 130 and 150 (I may have said that already). I could easily get them higher with a better heat shield. I chose not to because I have seen temps approaching 180 (my highest so far has been 179) and I don't feel comfortable with temps any higher than that.

also, think about this. if you have a heat source and you blow a fan across it, the heat source has to be significantly hotter than the expected air temperature that you are hoping to get.

I think you will get hotter temps with your setup but the question is how much hotter. I just don't want you to go through a lot of trouble to see 20 degrees above ambient temp. that would be disappointing. I personally don't like doing things twice. there again, you do have a delema with the header location.

[cmhj2000]

The wife has an 06.5 Kia Optima 2.4 liter W/Auto. Recently I removed the cold air intake scoop just to see what difference it would make.

With removing the intake scoop air is now drawn in about 6" from behind the radiator instead of in front of it.

While the past 5,000 miles or so have shown a 1.5+ MPG increase I've yet to do any temp checks as to how much temp difference there is from outside to under the hood.

As I have time I'll be putting a guage in the air box to see what temp difference there is with the scoop on and off. It'll be simple to do as the scoop takes less than 5 min. to install and/or remove.

My next step is to make a scoop that pulls air directly off the radiator.

[R.I.D.E.]

I just reversed my intake snorkel, pulled it off and turned it 180 degrees on my VX. I trimmed a small amount off the horn so it wsn't rubbing against the top radiator hose.

I doubt very seriously there will be much improvement above 140 degrees. There is no need to design a car to run where human beings can not survive.

regards
gary

[mjo]

Air right behind the radiator
Since the coolant passing through it is regulated to around 180 degrees, the air coming out is always at a certain temp and there is no chance of it exceeding (lets say) 220 degrees... so it is much more controllable and better in my opinion. Again the air that the engine will be sucking out of the radiator should be around 180 degrees most of the time.



The coolant is regulated to around 180 degrees, but that doesn't mean that the air that moves past the heat exchanger is regulated to that temperature. It depends on how much heat is transferred to the air. If your thermostat is 100% closed then the air temperature does not equal the coolant temperature - it is very close to ambient. On the other hand, if your thermostat is 100% open then the temperature will approach the coolant temperature. Keep in mind that there must be a temperature difference between the air and coolant in order for any heat transfer to occur.

A more accurate control of intake air temperature would be a dual intake for hot and cold air. It would pull hot air off of the exhaust manifold. The right proportion of hot/cold air would be regulated using electronics , two electric motors, and two butterfly valves to allow a correct ratio of hot/cold air that would achieve a desired temperature.

Best of luck to you!

[flapdoodle]

Perhaps an easier way to control the intake temp using air from the radiator would be to modify an air filter housing that already has it. My Lincoln has a butterfly in the horn to the airfilter that switches air from the grill and the stove around the exhaust header. It is regulated at 133F (book say it is 100F) by actual measurement.

It would only take a few minutes to reroute the aluminum hose from the exhaust to the radiator.

If you had a couple of them from the junkyard you could do some very creative things with them.

[BamZipPow]

Why couldn't you split yer heater hose with a Y and add a heater core in front of the airbox intake with the water return going back into another Y? ;)

[trautotuning]

Why couldn't you split yer heater hose with a Y and add a heater core in front of the airbox intake with the water return going back into another Y? ;)

I was actually thinking that to, wrapping my intake tube with copper wire.

It would not be hard because I already have coolant going into the throttle body like many of us so It actually would be inline with it.