Electric conversion: Project ForkenSwiift - Gas Savers

MetroMPG · 01-10-2006, 02:25 PM

[edit:

Matt Timion · 01-10-2006, 02:38 PM

I'll move this to the electric forum.

If you want we can start fishing for people on the internet to come here and maybe help us figure some stuff out. I would be interested in doing this conversion too. There is a n600 available in SEattle I might want to get for this conversion.

Matt Timion · 01-10-2006, 03:50 PM

If at all possible please report back here with anything you find. The more I Think about it the more I want to get this going with another small honda (n600 would be cool). This would be a great project for next year, or maybe this summer if I'm up to it.

Matt Timion · 01-10-2006, 03:59 PM

A friend of mine in high school made his own EV. It only had a 20 mile range, so it was only used to go to school and back. I would personally love a 100 mile range, but it isn't really needed. I guess 50 would be fine too. I could go pretty darn far with 50 miles.

Depending on the cost, however, I wouldn't be opposed to getting the more expensive batteries.

100 lbs of batteries isn't that much. Remember this guY?

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/325.html

By subtracting the stock weight of the car, he has around 700 lbs of batteries. My understanding is this is normal for EVs.

Another reason to go with the lighter batteries is that they have faster recharge times, longer lives, and will reduce the weight of the car (which also means more miles). The downside however is the price.

MetroMPG · 01-10-2006, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

A friend of mine in high school made his own EV. It only had a 20 mile range, so it was only used to go to school and back.

you remember any of the details? i'd like to hear about it. tell us a story, matt.

Matt Timion · 01-16-2006, 10:03 PM

I think if I did this I would get a metro. They are very abundant and cheap to buy.

I am curious however about a few things, one of which I'll address right now.

Can you explain to me how the gearbox works with an electric motor? You don't need the flywheel, but you DO need the clutch disc, right? I'm assuming the same about the pressure plate. You said before that some people don't keep their clutch. How is that possible?

Can you point me towards any references that might help me understand this?

MetroMPG · 01-19-2006, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

A friend of mine in high school made his own EV. It only had a 20 mile range, so it was only used to go to school and back.

details, matt. details!

SVOboy · 01-19-2006, 03:21 PM

Damn, this is all very interesting. Are there any parts you haven't sourced or wanna source more cheaply? I have a knack for getting stuff free or close to it.

MetroMPG · 01-19-2006, 03:56 PM

i haven't really sourced anything. i just made a shopping list, and went around various sites getting new/used estima

Matt Timion · 01-19-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

A friend of mine in high school made his own EV. It only had a 20 mile range, so it was only used to go to school and back.

details, matt. details!

I just did an internet search and here is what I found about him:

Quote:

Bio: I bought my 1984 Fiero 2m4 sport coupe in January 1992.

Purchased as a salvaged car with a thrashed 2.5, the previous owner had smashed the front end in a collision and made a mess of the wiring. When I found it, the owner's front lawn had grown into the engine compartment. The car was one of the first Fieros for roll off the line, and has power windows and locks, as well as the optional spoke aluminum wheels. Over the next two years I worked to convert the car to electric power as well as restoring it to a decent condition.
I used an Advanced DC 63 hp electric motor, and a Curtis 1231C 500 amp
controller. The batteries are made by US battery there are 10 6-volt
batteries in the back (trunk and engine compartment) and 5 12-volt batteries in the front where the spare tire once was. The battery trays are fit into the frame of the car on welded-in brackets. I also installed a 5-speed manual transaxle off of an '85 Fiero.

I began driving my custom made electric fiero last spring. Normally I get 40 to 45 miles on a charge, and the acceleration is not as shabby as some would expect from an electric car. Time for a full charge on the K&W charge unit is 8 hours (over night), running on household 120vac current. I had a custom paint job done, metallic blue, and a Pioneer AM/FM cass. stereo put in. Thecar has been written up in the LA times, featured on OCN (Orange county newschannel), and will appear next issue in Fiero Owner magazine.

This was back in 1996, so I'm certain the technology is much better by now.

SVOboy · 01-19-2006, 05:33 PM

85 crx hf = 1713, also.

Matt Timion · 01-19-2006, 06:21 PM

I'm actually considering using a metro if I actually do an EV conversion. Metros are just so abundant, lightweight, and have been used many many times before.

Check out all of the EVs here:

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/

SVOboy · 01-22-2006, 08:44 AM

Are there any of those online insurance companies that have good rates but ****ty service in canada? esurance.com comes to mind for me.

SVOboy · 01-22-2006, 07:10 PM

The deductable might me more than the value of the car, don't you think? It'll prolly get totalled from a fender bender (as would my car), so meh.

SVOboy · 02-05-2006, 11:55 AM

Doooooo eeeet, it's so cute.

100 CDN or USD?

SVOboy · 02-05-2006, 12:15 PM

Holy EF, I'll buy it.

MetroMPG · 02-05-2006, 01:01 PM

this swift is the 1.3 4-cyl, though, not the 1.0 3-pot. what would you want with a fuel hog like that?

ps - there are lots of these $100-500 near death units around if you really want one. the swift/metros were as popular in their day as the aveo now is in its class.

SVOboy · 02-05-2006, 01:03 PM

I don't see them for sale in NJ though, so I'm just amazed. I'd buy one for 50 USD to just do something really neat with it.

SVOboy · 02-05-2006, 01:30 PM

Yeah, all of them I see for sale are like 2k around here, I'll have to keep my eye out for some beat up stuff.

JanGeo · 02-05-2006, 03:51 PM

Man that is exactly where mine rusted out too - the right side. Damn that is just too scary - my personal injury lawyer friend was saying too bad I didn't get injured he could have sued the manufacturer BIG TIME. Frames are not supposed to rust out like that especially at a critical suspension point.

JanGeo · 02-05-2006, 06:08 PM

Just so you know I built a scooter with 67lbs of lead Hawker batteries and a frame about 48lbs added to that is my weight and you get about 300lbs and I can go about 25 miles on a charge 36 volts 25 amp hours. This is with a 92%+ efficiency motor. The Advanced DC motors are in the 70% and lower sometimes depending upon RPM and current - it amazes me how poor they are yet everyone uses them. I have to wonder when I putt around town in my Geo just how much HP I am generating in the motor at really low rpms - I shift into 5th at 25mph.... You could probably run around town a lot in first gear with a 6000 rpm motor and have plenty of torque - will have to plug the numbers into my spread sheet sometime and see what I get.

MetroMPG · 02-05-2006, 07:56 PM

what motor are you using?

my friend and i considered the idea of doing mopeds or motorcycles, but it came down to wanting something that could be used in all weather with an additional passenger, and which is also street legal. which means metro EV.

JanGeo · 02-05-2006, 09:04 PM

www.eCycle.com MG13 but you should consider some of the newer motors they are building maybe a solid slot double stack and a 400 amp controller with your lower voltage and bigger batteries. It's always tricky when dealing with higher power levels but they have the efficiency way up so you don't have to deal with a lot of cooling. If you wanted something smaller then stick with two or three wheels and keep it clasified as a motorcycle then enclose it in a full body.

JanGeo · 02-06-2006, 06:19 AM

Yup they are pricy but you can pay now or push your electric car later when you run out of energy . . . They are going to be really light if that is a factor plus they freewheel / spin pretty well with the controller turned off but it depends upon the controller driving it. Don't forget that they are brushless and have no cooling holes for air to carry dirt into the motor and the water cooling option could provide you with some cabin heat. It also makes a great generator so depending upon how you regulate the power to the motor input would determine power/loading. Typically the switching buck-boost stage driving the motor input has fets pulling up to the battery voltage and down to ground at some duty cycle determined by the throttle and current limiting. Now if you can get it to just pull up to the battery voltage you would have a "freewheel" drive effect and if you have it pull down you would have a braking/regen effect. Of course you could always just pop it into neutral. One thing you would want is a smart motor speed controller so that you could monitor the transmission input shaft speed and regulate the motor speed to match when shifting into gears - maybe a button on the top of the shifter that you press which would make the motor run at the speed that the transmission is in and allow you to pop it out of gear with no loading and then speed up or slow down to motor as you move it towards the next gear to allow it to shift right into gear without grinding and thus not require a clutch.

Matt Timion · 02-13-2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

some good news: persistence on the phone paid off with a local forklift service company. i finally talked to one of their service technicians who says they have a complete 48V used forklift that they'll sell for $500. this would be a great source for not only the motor (10hp continuous series wound), but for switches, fuses, contactor, controller, potbox, gauges...

That is awesome news. Does it have a controller as well? I imagine this would give you everything you need, including some batteries.

SVOboy · 02-18-2006, 02:51 PM

If he's 450km south I might want it,

JanGeo · 02-20-2006, 07:28 PM

Yeah they are made heavy to lift and not tip over - consider driving it to where it has to go or towing it there. Do you have AAA up there or maybe the back end of a Tractor Trailer. Sounds like NOT the way to go for parts - they are all designed to be heavy not efficient for car vehicle use.

Those electric cars sound interesting - if RI ever passed the NEV law they could be used around town here. I would consider converting one over to one of my more efficient motors and then maybe a different Li-Ion battery pack and really make it go. When they first rented something simular to them in town many years ago they went for $20,000 each.

Sludgy · 02-23-2006, 02:58 PM

This site has some great information regarding low speed electric vehicles, motor vehicle laws and technology. AC motors and inverters are coming soon to electric vehicles near you.

http://www.golfcarcatalog.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=check_this_archive&step=3&arc hive_id=112

MetroMPG · 02-23-2006, 06:35 PM

yeah - ac would be good - more efficient.

Quote:

AC is not for the faint of heart or for the frugal owner.

but that second point rules me out on this project!

Compaq888 · 02-23-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

<img src="http://img.shopping.com/cctool/PrdImg/images/pr/177X150/00/01/4a/61/82/21651842.JPG" align="right">

found another beater: 91 firefly 4 door. red. owner says it runs and only needs brakes to pass safety. i suspect it needs more than that since it's been parked for more than a year.

the suspension mounts are OK, but there's a hole in the floor.

i offered $100, she countered with $200. i said i'd get back to her.

the 4 door weighs a little more - just shy of 1700 lbs.

God damn that is some cheap *** cars. You and SVOboy should work together. You get cars for cheap and he gets parts for cheap. You guys need to open a used dealership together.