Newone with used metro - Gas Savers

usedgeo · 10-28-2006, 06:18 PM

I just found this place a few hours ago. Hi you all!

After years of noticing them I bought a 95 3 cyl. metro with 5 speed a month ago. Darn that scangauge wont plug into a 95, going to have to trade cars.

I just learned about scangauge today. My other car is a 2001 Impala LS with 3.8 which is amazingly efficient considering what it is. It has the computer and I usually get about 24 mpg actual commuting with it. The computer lies about 13% in GM's favour though.

I only get about 38 mpg with the metro. I think I am driving too fast, about 70 mph. From some graphs on the metrompg site it is clear I need to slow down. I am intrigued by good mileage and managed some impressive commutes with the impala. The computer display proved some things about my driving habits to me.

I have fantasies of adding an electric wheel to this metro, but that may never happen. Yeah I spent quite a bit of time on the metrompg page.

I have done a spot of tune up work to the metro. New airfilter. Iridium plugs and a new pcv valve. The old PCV valve was defective. I usully get real close to EPA numbers on most cars. That will be really hard with this metro.

Enough for now.

MetroMPG · 10-28-2006, 08:05 PM

Hey welcome to GS. Lots of good info & people to find around here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by usedgeo

Darn that scangauge wont plug into a 95, going to have to trade cars.

I just learned about scangauge today.

You can put a SuperMID mpg computer into a 95 Metro: see
August 28, 2006 - SuperMID Install and the 60 mpg Hurdle

Quote:

I have fantasies of adding an electric wheel to this metro, but that may never happen.

Yeah, join the club. I've been thinking about that again recently also. Check out http://www.99mpg.com/mikesinsight/ to get the wheels turning even more (pardon the pun)

Quote:

I usully get real close to EPA numbers on most cars. That will be really hard with this metro.

It will be literally impossible at those speeds. Of all the cars I've owned, the Firefly/Metro is the toughest to beat EPA numbers when driven "normally". Though it's got enormous potential if you slow down & use some unconventional driving techniques.

Don't forget to fill out your garage info. Plug some tanks into your Gas Log and start playing the game. Post a pic or 2 of the car in your garage profile. And have fun! Welcome aboard.

kickflipjr · 10-28-2006, 08:06 PM

Welcome to gassavers!

I have heard that it is hard to make the EPA on metros. Team swift has a lot of information on there fuel economy section (I don't know if you have ever been there). But don't leave here because I am giving you a link

http://teamswift.net/viewforum.php?f=34

MetroMPG · 10-28-2006, 08:12 PM

Teamswift can be great. I visit it regularly and post once in a while (a lot of repeats of topics here, often seeking Suzukiclone-specific feedback).

But I find people here have "the bug" for FE more than there. GasSavers is hardcore, man!

There's more encouragement here, and generally more activity to keep my interest in MPG percolating.

Spule 4 · 10-29-2006, 07:06 AM

As stated, my driving at 75-80 was harsh on Metro Mileage (see my started gaslog) and in the end the Fit and Metro were about on par with the same driving style.

The GM 3.8 was a good fuel saving motor, not many know this.

usedgeo · 10-29-2006, 08:47 AM

I think the 3.4 is even a tad better than the 3.8 according to the EPA guide. The Impala coasts amazingly well.

My metro may need alignment or brake calipers. Something seems to drag even with high tire pressure. I have not had much time to check it out yet.

The GM 3.8 was a good fuel saving motor, not many know this.[/QUOTE]

Ernie

MetroMPG · 10-29-2006, 08:54 AM

My first Firefly/Metro had slightly draggy calipers. I tried to service them, but it was a bit of corrosion on the piston preventing them from retracting fully/smoothly.

So I changed them with new/rebuilt ones. There was a noticeable difference on the next tank. Though from a cost/benefit perspective, I think I calculated the MPG gain would have taken 60,000 km to pay for the repair

onegammyleg · 10-29-2006, 11:24 AM

Ime up for a big brake repair soon on my Metro Swift.

It will probably pass the next yearly inspection (next month) , but I know the discs are rusty , thin and scored (fins are hard on their brakes) and I think there is some drag in the front or the back.

So new calipers , master cylinder and wheel cylinders is on my shopping list.

PS , Not this sort of drag.

Spule 4 · 10-29-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onegammyleg

PS , Not this sort of drag.

YIKES! Too funny.....

usedgeo · 12-03-2006, 09:14 PM

I tried slowing down a bit and it helped a little. I am only getting 38 mpg at best with my 95 geo 3 cylinder. No check engine light but the tail pipe gets sooty black. At idle it is not running rich.

What is the most likely thing to check?

I have replaced the cam belt and left the cam timing stock. I suspect at 103,000 miles the actual volumetric efficiency of the engine may not match the compter's expectations when open loop. I have tinkered with the fuel pressure a bit by shimming up the fuel pressure regulator cap. I suppose the the computer will just set a new base line at the reduced pressure but short term it might be helping.

Maybe the answer is to decarbon the valves and advance the cam a bit.

I had to change a half shaft seal and put one quart of ATF and the rest 75-90 gear oil in the 5-speed tranny. I have done similar before with no problem in other cars but am not recommending this. The second gear syncro works nicer, all the syncros do, and there seems to be less drag. Alas I need a scan gauge. That will force me to trade to a newer year. I know there are other options but that scan gauage looks like something I am going to own soon.

How do the syncros work with 0-20 synthetic in the metro transmission?

I was afraid the synthetic might be too slick for the old syncros. Maybe the lower viscosity offsets that.

In all likelyhood these items have probably been discussed at length. In that case I apologize and will spend more time searching next time.

Thanks for any insight.

Ernie

MetroMPG · 12-04-2006, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usedgeo

What is the most likely thing to check?

O2 sensor.

Quote:

How do the syncros work with 0-20 synthetic in the metro transmission?

Fine. I'm running GM Synchromesh semi-synth, which has a similar viscosity to 5-30. I've said elsewhere that I believe the Metro manual has an error in it calling for 75/90 in the gearbox. When I got my car, it had 2,x00 original KM on it, and I drained and replaced the tranny oil. I compared it to the viscosity of 75/90 synth, and the original oil is *definitely* not as thick as 75/90.

When I switched from 75/90 to synchromesh in my 1st Firefly, the balky synchros improved dramatically.

usedgeo · 12-05-2006, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

O2 sensor.
It sure looks like the O@ sensor is working. Check engine light comes on after a few minutes if disconnected and goes off when reconnected.

When I switched from 75/90 to synchromesh in my 1st Firefly, the balky synchros improved dramatically.

Thanks for the oil suggestion.

CO ZX2 · 12-19-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onegammyleg

Ime up for a big brake repair soon on my Metro Swift.

It will probably pass the next yearly inspection (next month) , but I know the discs are rusty , thin and scored (fins are hard on their brakes) and I think there is some drag in the front or the back.

So new calipers , master cylinder and wheel cylinders is on my shopping list.

PS , Not this sort of drag.

Gammy, is that you in the pink??

onegammyleg · 12-20-2006, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CO ZX2

Gammy, is that you in the pink??

Depends , does it turn your buttons on ?

brelandt · 01-01-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Fine. I'm running GM Synchromesh semi-synth, which has a similar viscosity to 5-30. I've said elsewhere that I believe the Metro manual has an error in it calling for 75/90 in the gearbox.

My Chiltons for my Suzuki Sidekicks says the samething. 75/80 for both manual tranny and rear axle.

cfg83 · 01-01-2007, 07:06 PM

MetroMPG -

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

My first Firefly/Metro had slightly draggy calipers. I tried to service them, but it was a bit of corrosion on the piston preventing them from retracting fully/smoothly.

So I changed them with new/rebuilt ones. There was a noticeable difference on the next tank. Though from a cost/benefit perspective, I think I calculated the MPG gain would have taken 60,000 km to pay for the repair

Could you put that in the "regular maintenance" column for car safety? Maybe you did it for FE, but I think brake servicing is needed for all cars.

CarloSW2

MetroMPG · 01-01-2007, 08:48 PM

I guess you could chalk it up to regular maintenance for safety, but it really wasn't dragging much (weren't getting noticibly hot). I bet most people would not even have noticed and if they had, they wouldn't have bothered replacing them...

usedgeo · 01-18-2007, 08:49 PM

Well I sold the 95 GEO metro. No need to bad mouth it. It was a very cute car but just did not deliver the mileage I expected without dramatic changes to driving style. Also it would not take a scan gauge.

Last Saturday I bought a 2001 Saturn SL1. I have not done a second fill up yet but I think it is going to deliver within 10% of the mileage I was getting with the GEO. It feels much more aerodynamic. It slips along effortlessly at 80 though I usually drive 65-70. I bought it with a check engine light on and a high idle with a miss. It turned out ot be an easy to change intake manifold gasket. The local parts man at Saturn admitted this is fairly common. This is much more car than the Metro and is rated 40 mpg highway. So far I really like it. The seat is just about as low as the Metro hatchback's was though. Getting out can hurt my knees if I am not careful.

OH BOY!!!! I got my ScanGauge today. Oh my gosh! How will I keep my eyes on the road now. This is the tool I had fantasized about many times not knowing it had been developed. I had always thought it would take an aftermarket computer and laptop to access this kind of information. I have only had it a couple hours but it may be the most fun I have ever bought in my life. Woops, maybe that is too personal. Anyway it is really cool to be able to look at all those gauge functions. I thought the engine was running a bit cool. Now I know it is running 173 degrees F. In just a few seconds I learned that this car stays closed loop much more than my turbo charged T-Bird used to. It took a long time to figure that out on the Ford.

I have not got the tires aired up to maximum in this yet. I was busy with the engine work. Now I need to start thinking about driving economically.

Ernie