What version display did you get? The 5301? I can help you set it up for the narrow band O2 sensor in your car. I just finished assembling mine today to hook up to my VX O2 sensor to tell when I'm in Lean burn.

Off hand I can tell you that if you have the Jaycar 5300/5301 and want to use it with a narrow band O2 just assemble it per the Jaycar instructions and ignore the changes indicated by Tech Edge.

If you feel your electronics prowess isn't up to the task, you could mail me the unit and I can assemble and calibrate it for you.

__________________

Honda Civic VX Info/Links
Remember to use good Webiquette!

TomO -

Thank you! I know how to solder, but the calibration part looks pretty depressing, so I would appreciate help on that. I thought the VX 02 sensor was the 5-wire job. Is the 5-wire a narrow-band too? Does the VX have two 02 sensors like my Saturn? I would be slicing into the unheated (2-wire?) 02 sensor in my exhaust manifold, not the heated (4-wire?) 02 sensor that is located after the catalytic converter.

I have the 5300 :

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView...Max=&SUBCATID=

CarloSW2

__________________
Old School SW2 EPA ... New School Civic EPA :

What's your EPA MPG? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp

The O2 sensor in your Saturn's manifold is most likely a 1-wire model like it is in my '99 SL2. The 5-wire sensor that you mentioned is a wide-band sensor.

__________________
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how much of the wall you take with you.

2007 Prius,



Team Slow Burn

Test drive went well, didn't take long to get the hang of it. I covered a lot of ground with the engine off and didn't sit for more than 8 seconds with the engine running. killing during shifting didn't work so well, but I only tried when it was cold and it would die completely, needs work.

The injector resistor is HUGE (purple circle), I'm a little concerned about my little switch. But I have an alligator clip and can jury rig the leads back together if necessary A relay would provide more peace of mind, but cei la vie. I'll keep an eye on the mileage. Last tank sucked.

Attached Images

	sw2.JPG (41.5 KB, 402 views)
	sw3.JPG (27.7 KB, 221 views)

diamondlarry -

You must be right. I recall that it does look like a 1-wire sensor. I was looking online and saw 1, 2, and 4 wire models for Saturn S-Series. Which 02 sensor is post-cat in your SL2?

CarloSW2

__________________
Old School SW2 EPA ... New School Civic EPA :

What's your EPA MPG? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp

I have a question about the kill switch use:

In order to eliminate the "bump" start could you:
1 Kill the injectors
2 leave the engine engaged
3 open the throttle fully to reduce pumping losses/alt still charging (REGEN BRAKING?)
4 finishing coasting but still be in motion (rpm about 1500)
5 close the thottle while still rolling
6 start the injectors

The bump will be removed....saving a tiny bit of clutch material.

Bill

__________________
B W

My post-cat sensor is a 4-wire.

__________________
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how much of the wall you take with you.

2007 Prius,



Team Slow Burn

By doing it this way(leaving engine engaged), you will significantly reduce your coasting time to the point where it may do little or no good for FE.

__________________
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how much of the wall you take with you.

2007 Prius,



Team Slow Burn

I think you're right. Even with the throttle open and spark plugs removed, the engine friction would be significant, and the benefit of the engine-off glide would be lost.

The proof of the pudding:

Stop on a grade. Kill the engine. Now, with the engine in gear, open the throttle fully. Does the car roll? Didn't think so!

I'd be interested to compare coast length of both methods just to see how different they are.

__________________
FF
ForkenSwift cheap electric car conversion- Geo Metro fuel economy mpg modifications

Nice work, skewbe. I thought I was looking at a picture of MY gear shift Except my switch is held on with a hose clamp. (I graduated from duct tape when it got really hot in the summer and the tape got all slippery & gooey.)

I should try the injector kill, because I'm conscious of the fact that sometimes the engine doesn't die a quick, quiet death when I press the button (it occasionally seems to spin an extra rev, half-heartedly, which could be due to the injector providing a last dribble of fuel.)

__________________
FF
ForkenSwift cheap electric car conversion- Geo Metro fuel economy mpg modifications

It's not pumping losses, just engine friction. I asked a similar question at the end of this post and got this response...
Pumping losses only have with combustion, especially in gassers.

__________________

BeeUU -

I have the same question for a different reason. Correct me if I am wrong. This is what I was thinking :

EDIT : Re-order the list below

1 Foot off the accelerator
2 Leave the engine engaged
3 Kill the injectors with momentary switch (gotta hold the switch down)
4 Finish coasting but still be in motion (RPM never lower than idle RPM)
5 Start the injectors by releasing momentary switch.
6 Foot on the accelerator

Some cars do a form of this already. When the driver is "coasting in gear", the PCM sees that the throttle is 0, so it shuts off the fuel injectors. It does this until the car slows down to it's idle RPM.

Other cars don't do this or do this to a less efficient degree. From what I can tell on my ScanGauge, my Saturn doesn't appear to do this. I think this is true because when I am "coasting in neutral", I see roughly 3 to 1 MPG to MPH. That is, if I am going 60 MPH in neutral, I see over 180 MPG on my ScanGauge. This is not true when I am "coasting in gear" because the RPMs are so much higher. In that case I think I see maybe a 2 to 1 MPG to MPH.

So, I think there is value in doing this from a *tactical* standpoint where you want to emulate the features of a car that is a better manager of MPG.

Safety Side Benefit : I *think* in this case that you maintain your power brakes and your power steering. This is the real reason I am curious about this.

You aren't getting the MPG of coasting with the gas off, but it may be better than what the drivetrain is doing right now, and it may be tactically smart in high-density/aggressive driving conditions.

CarloSW2

__________________
Old School SW2 EPA ... New School Civic EPA :

What's your EPA MPG? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp

I just had somebody do mine then I relocated it to a different location. I have over $400 in security stuff on my car. It's not the fact that the car will be stolen that irritates me but the fact that finding another car and paying title&registration is a huge hassle.

__________________

My VW and Peugeot both cut fuel when I lift and coast, but with the throttle closed the car decelerates. I was hoping that with a injector cut I could open the throttle and coast. I did not think the friction would be that great. But I guess the alternator and PS/H20/oil pumps are dragging alot.

Since I am new at this, I will make this one of my first experiments!!!

I guess I still am getting a little of that energy back with the alternator still charging the battery, pseudo brake regeneration.

Thanks everybody for the help.

BTW, are there instructions posted any-where on how to accomplish the injector cut out. I saw the post by skewbe with the huge resistor, I am not sure what that is used for......

Quote:
Originally Posted by skewbe
The injector resistor is HUGE (purple circle), I'm a little concerned about my little switch. But I have an alligator clip and can jury rig the leads back together if necessary A relay would provide more peace of mind, but cei la vie. I'll keep an eye on the mileage. Last tank sucked.

__________________
B W

It was simple enough on the metro since it only has one injector (TBI). Since the injector resistor was in series (according to the schematic) with the injector, I just added a switch in series with one of the leads going to the injector resistor. Presumably the resistor is there to limit the current going to the injector.

It hasn't thrown any codes that I have detected on the metro.

I don't have a step-by-step guide, each car is possibly different and you have to look at the schematic and decide where to put the switch, electronically speaking. I've deemed describing how to physically install a switch and how to run wires as being out of scope

The idea is to go as far as you can without expending any fuel, so avoiding engine breaking IF THE ROAD IS CLEAR AHEAD is the preferred method.

Otherwise it all comes down to timing, i.e. can you slow down enough, but not too much, in 3'rd gear before the light turns green, etc.

Sometimes theres an unexpected turn arrow and you wind up at a dead stop and have to use the starter, other times you were able to keep it in gear for the relight, other times you coasted half a mile without spending any fuel and had just enough momentum left to bump it when the light turned green. It's all good

Oh, the resistor heat sink is an original part, sorry I misunderstood. I though you added that as part of your switch.

Thanks for the clarification.

I was planning on using the existing throttle position switch, and wiring my in cabin switch to make the ECU think I have the throttle closed. Should be fairly clean.

__________________
B W

The brakes lose there power boost after an application or two if the engine stops turning, you still have brakes but you have to press a lot harder for the same effect, so get used to stopping without power assist AWAY from other people/cars/backs of garages. It's quite doable, I've had cars that weighed more than twice as much without power brakes, but something anyone installing a kill switch needs to be prepared for and will assume all liability (henseforth known as "duh") for should they turn off their engine whilst moving.

Also if you manage to lock your steering column while moving, then duh.

And if you over allocate your focus on your technique and lose situational awareness, then duh.

And if you stop/slow down on the tracks or other perilous spot and cannot relight the engine, then duh.

And if you critically overspeed going down a mountain, then duh.

And if your modification causes your vehicle to burst into flames, or otherwise affects its longevity, then duh.

And any other case where you might not want to be accountable for your actions, duh.

offer void where prohibited, for entertainment purposes only, employees do not qualify, may cause primisim nausea or potatoe famine, your mileage may vary.

Ya know, mine still takes a while to die. It seems to stumble and shake a bit right before zero rpm. I'm running a bottle of injector cleaner through it now, will see if that helps.

Ya know, my scangauge said I was using .2 gal/hr in overrun, but it said that even with the injector disconnected, so I'm not sure I believe it. I'll have to actually measure to see if there is any current going to the injector in overrun. I've seen my scangauge go into open loop during a decent overrun?!?

re throttle open braking, assuming engine is off: If you hold the throttle open, the compression stroke works harder, but as soon as it goes past TDC you have more pressure pushing the piston back down, so you pretty much get the energy back. There will be more pressure pushing the rings out and on the bearings, but nothing like when there is the usual controlled explosion in the cylinder.

re: jake brake, basically it pops open the exhaust valve at TDC on the compression stroke so all that compressed air DOESNT push the piston back down and return the energy to the crankshaft. No 14.7:1 considerations or anything. No throttle on the Diesel anyway and the exhaust valve is not held constantly open, so I'm not sure how right that guy was. However, a jake brake probably would work better with the throttle open/unobstructed.

The jake brake folks themselves diagram the concept nicely:
http://www.jakebrake.com/products/ho...rake-works.php

I have completed my first experiment in the quest for ultra mileage!!!

I tried "coasting in gear" with the motor turned off. Wide open throttle does not improve coasting length significantly. I guess engine and driveline drag are really a big component of overall drag.

It makes for a smooth engine start. Turning the key to "ON" while coasting with the engine engaged produces no noticeable noise or power change.

I also coasted with the engine off and disengaged. Then re-engaged the engine and turned the key to "ON". Smooth as silk. Boy this is fun. But it takes a bit of concentration right now.

I have become more motivated to install the injector kill switch, turning the key to "OFF" while moving is just so against the grain, it is hard to do the first few times. It feels so "wrong" and the silence is weird too. The results are so "right" though!!!!

__________________
B W

BeeUU -

When I am coasting engine-off in neutral, I usually turn the key to "ON" and do the bump start with my stick shift. Never thought of re-engaging the gear first and then turning the key "ON".

And yes, the injector kill switch must be the way to go. I should add that to my to-do list. *sigh*

CarloSW2

__________________
Old School SW2 EPA ... New School Civic EPA :

What's your EPA MPG? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp

ya know, when I kill the engine, I shift to neutral and the daytime running lamps go out.

Strangely reminiscent of "kill the headlights and put it in neutral"...

That's probably because you have throttle body injection on the Metro. Look down on the throttle blade with the engine running - you'll see a skim of liquid fuel on the throttle blade where the injector sprays it. Even after you shut the injector off, the engine won't die untill that fuel has gone away, thus the shaking and stumbling as the fuel supply runs out.

Cars with multi-point fuel injection shouldn't have this because the injection goes directly into the ports so there would be no 'reserve' supply of fuel for the engine to run on.

I think whether you leave the trans in gear or not depends on the hill. I have some around here where I want the engine braking! I have to occasionally use the brakes even with the engine in gear so if I put it into neutral I'd really be burning up the brakes.
Personally, if you put it in neutral I'd much rather do a rolling restart with the starter than a bump start. Just use the starter and avoid the clutch wear, plus you can do it at speed if you are not comfortable doing a bump start at highway speed.

BluEyes -

I do like "bump start in 5th at 30 MPH" because I can usually do it really smooth. For higher speeds I think that I will use the starter.

Question : Hmmmmm, won't the starter cause the lights to go off/on? That may be a flag to the powers that be, especially at night . Gotta think about it.

CarloSW2

__________________
Old School SW2 EPA ... New School Civic EPA :

What's your EPA MPG? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp

Dunno if all the dash lights will come on because you haven't cycled the ignition switch. Lots of cars have things like the 'brake' warning light wired to come on during cranking as a test to see that the bulb is still good though. If the ignition has never gone off I think the check engine light should stay off though?

I tried turning the ignition off today down some hills (my steering wheel only locks after 180* so no worries) and when I turn the ignition back on of course all the lights go their thing. I left it in gear with the clutch engaged though to retain power steering, brakes, and engine braking so no need for a bump or starter.
I didn't think it was bad to coast with the engine off. I've only heard about coasting in neutral being illegal. Possibly due to a risk of overheating the brakes from a lack of engine braking? Doubt a cop in traffic is watching your dash. Might hear the starter though...

I did some off-site research and did find something to consider. Engine-off coasting in neutral does not seem like a good idea for manual trannies. In that situation, none of the gears are turning, so no oil gets distributed, possibly damaging the bearings. I hadn't thought of this, but having been inside a few trannies it is true. Only the output shaft will spin and the gears will remain stationary. Leaving the trans in gear with the clutch in will leave the gears engaged and turning without turning the engine over, so no risk of frying bearings. (the throwout bearing would not be rotating either, so no risk to it either from leaving the clutch pedal in for so long)
I have no idea about auto trannies - still learning the mechanics of them.