Save up to 35% on any fuel... at any pump .... anywhere! - Gas Savers

Chris · 02-12-2006, 07:09 AM

Hello to all!

What would you say if you could save up to 35% on any fuel at any pump. Copy and paste www.demarco.mybpbiz.com for complete details. Hang on to your seat and enjoy to ride.
Sincerely,
Chris De Marco
De Marco Enterprises, LLC

Matt Timion · 02-12-2006, 07:56 AM

Hi Chris, and welcome to the site. I sure hope you're not just making one post and then vanishing, as we can always use input and more users.

About your product, I have a few problems right off the bat. Being as how I live in the Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) capital of the world (Utah) I'm instantly turned off by any product that relies on MLM to sell it's product.

A quick search on the internet finds that I'm not the only one who shares this skepticism.

http://www.scamdex.com/GasPills.htm

If you are, however, convinced that your product actually works, I'd recommend that you offer to sell some at cost to members of this website who will then test your product to determine if it really does benefit fuel economy.

I'm personally very skeptical, but IMHO skepticism is very needed when dealing with fuel saving technologies.

krousdb · 02-12-2006, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

Hi Chris, and welcome to the site. I sure hope you're not just making one post and then vanishing, as we can always use input and more users.

About your product, I have a few problems right off the bat. Being as how I live in the Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) capital of the world (Utah) I'm instantly turned off by any product that relies on MLM to sell it's product.

A quick search on the internet finds that I'm not the only one who shares this skepticism.

http://www.scamdex.com/GasPills.htm

If you are, however, convinced that your product actually works, I'd recommend that you offer to sell some at cost to members of this website who will then test your product to determine if it really does benefit fuel economy.

I'm personally very skeptical, but IMHO skepticism is very needed when dealing with fuel saving technologies.

Yes, I too am skeptical. I have already tested similar products in tablet form that claim to reduce excess gas. One was called Gas-X and the other was called Mylanta Gas Relief. I placed the prescribed dosage in my gas tank and the change to my MPG was statistically insignificant.

That being said, I don't want to be closed minded about this product. I will volunteer to test it. I just need to know, do you grind ip the tablets before putting into your gas tank or do just shove it through the fuel nozzle hole?

Matt Timion · 02-12-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krousdb

Yes, I too am skeptical. I have already tested similar products in tablet form that claim to reduce excess gas. One was called Gas-X and the other was called Mylanta Gas Relief. I placed the prescribed dosage in my gas tank and the change to my MPG was statistically insignificant.

Okay, this was funny

diamondlarry · 02-12-2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

Quote:

Originally Posted by krousdb

Yes, I too am skeptical. I have already tested similar products in tablet form that claim to reduce excess gas. One was called Gas-X and the other was called Mylanta Gas Relief. I placed the prescribed dosage in my gas tank and the change to my MPG was statistically insignificant.

Okay, this was funny

Yeah, and he never even mentioned Beano.

iburnh2o · 02-12-2006, 11:09 AM

http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/mlm_evaluations.htm

rh77 · 02-12-2006, 02:48 PM

Well Mr. De Marco, you happened to have chosen one of the most scientifically-based fuel economy forums. We need real data by a third party, or test it ourselves -- testimonials are hearsay. We report the data and the users decide. If the product works, then you would have no problem with independent, empirical testing. Otherwise, we can smell a scam from a mile away.

RH77

Compaq888 · 02-12-2006, 02:51 PM

I ain't paying money for nothing. All my gas saving stuff is proven. If somebody wants me to experiment their product it's either proven or if it's not they give me the product to test it out to prove it for free.

35% is a lot.

DaX · 02-13-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Compaq888

35% is a lot.

Agreed. I call BS unless you back up your claim with some results, Mr. DeMarco.

n0rt0npr0 · 02-13-2006, 12:54 PM

This **** is on eBay. I, myself, am questioning whether this pill will DISSOLVE in the tank fully. Hrm...

Lets hear a vote: I am willing to spend $20 to debunk this. You guys think I should? If it turns out negative, my negative results will be searchable by google, filling my need to warn others of possible scams. I'm keeping watch for cheap low count sets of them pills on eBay. I think 6 treated tanks will yield results to go yay or nay.

The first test will be videotaped: It will show the pill dissolving in gasoline while I gently stir the mixture.

Second (if it does indeed perfectly dissolve) will be the actual vehicle mileage results strictly adhering to the product instructions

I will log all this and the weekly weather averages in the gaslog. And, if requested, the previous year mpg and weather averages too.
The weather will be warming here shortly. Kind of a bad time to test right now...but I do have last years data to compare to..

JanGeo · 02-13-2006, 01:26 PM

I wonder if you let the pills sit in a jar of gas if they would react and work sooner than the "4 tanks" to see a result. Got to wonder what is going on there with it taking so long to show a result. Ya know that platinum additives act as a catalist and there was a gas additive using a platinum mixture that I saw at Walmart a really long time ago.

Oh yeah and anything that disolves in gas will precipitate out when the gas is gone - maybe this stuff coats the cylinders and pistons.

rh77 · 02-13-2006, 03:39 PM

My concern is that the chemical composition may not be safe for fuel lines, filters, internals, etc. Like E85 -- it's so corrosive, all of the internals of the engine need to be treated so it doesn't corrode the crap out of it and clog-up the CAT...etc.

RH77

Compaq888 · 02-13-2006, 03:43 PM

you guys want to save money on gas there are plenty of things that will work. I should make a thread that says what works for sure. If we stop going back and forth and start to finally do some stuff then everybody will gain a few mpgs.

Matt Timion · 02-13-2006, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Compaq888

you guys want to save money on gas there are plenty of things that will work. I should make a thread that says what works for sure. If we stop going back and forth and start to finally do some stuff then everybody will gain a few mpgs.

We're all aware of what works, Compaq.

The purpose of this site is to discuss new ideas, and the scientifically test those ideas. The "back and forth" banter is actually how things get done.

n0rt0npr0 · 02-13-2006, 04:31 PM

RH77,

They claim this pill is totally non-reactive and biodegradable. It's also non-corrosive and being so it conforms to the shipping companys like UPS's rules and regulations. I'm pretty sure that thats one reason they don't offer this in liquid form. Strange product tho.

SVOboy · 02-13-2006, 05:51 PM

Nortonpro, if you wanna be the guinea pig that bites the pig sized bullet, then by all means. I think these additives deserve the most attention because they are what divert the general public from realizing any real advances in gas mileage.

Matt Timion · 02-13-2006, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Nortonpro, if you wanna be the guinea pig that bites the pig sized bullet, then by all means. I think these additives deserve the most attention because they are what divert the general public from realizing any real advances in gas mileage.

Agreed. Nortonpro, start up a thread in the experiments section and we'll get it moving. This type of thing would be great for future reference.

DaX · 02-13-2006, 06:39 PM

My hot dollar is riding on the placebo effect.

kickflipjr · 02-13-2006, 06:53 PM

I seriously don't think they will be a difference.

But test it if you want to. I would love to see the results.

Compaq888 · 02-13-2006, 06:57 PM

I love the placebo effect.

kickflipjr · 02-13-2006, 07:08 PM

I love the butt dyno.

n0rt0npr0 · 02-13-2006, 07:08 PM

yep I'll start a new thread if and when the testing starts

Any clue as to how many tanks would be enough data to swing one way or the other on this?

And how could I minimize or delete the "placebo" effect? Would one way of doing that be electronicly limiting my rpm?

JanGeo · 02-13-2006, 07:19 PM

ScanGauge on the same stretch of highway at the same speed pretty much shows what is going on in my xB. If the change is going to be cost effective it has to be big enough to be noticed.

Matt Timion · 02-14-2006, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0rt0npr0

yep I'll start a new thread if and when the testing starts

Any clue as to how many tanks would be enough data to swing one way or the other on this?

And how could I minimize or delete the "placebo" effect? Would one way of doing that be electronicly limiting my rpm?

Didn't you say they claim it takes 4 tanks to realize the effects? 4 tanks would definately be enough data. I would record as much as you could for each tank though, including miles driven, air temp (if possible) etc.

The only way to eliminate the placebo effect is to have you do the same experiment twice, once with the right pill and once with a pill that doesn't do anything. Of course, you couldn't know which pill was which. Maybe I can get the pills and either send you vitamins or the gas pills.

If you keep it strictly controlled I don't think you'll have to worry about placebo.

It might be best to ask someone to put it in your tank when you don't know, only to find out afterwards which tanks had the pill in it, but that's a lot of work too.

krousdb · 02-14-2006, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

Didn't you say they claim it takes 4 tanks to realize the effects? 4 tanks would definately be enough data. I would record as much as you could for each tank though, including miles driven, air temp (if possible) etc.

The only way to eliminate the placebo effect is to have you do the same experiment twice, once with the right pill and once with a pill that doesn't do anything. Of course, you couldn't know which pill was which. Maybe I can get the pills and either send you vitamins or the gas pills.

If you keep it strictly controlled I don't think you'll have to worry about placebo.

It might be best to ask someone to put it in your tank when you don't know, only to find out afterwards which tanks had the pill in it, but that's a lot of work too.

I think the claim means that you need to use it for 4 tanks before you will even begin noticing the difference, similar to acetone where you won't notice it until the second or third tank. I guess that really what has me skeptical about this. Why would it take 4 tanks before you notice a difference?

Winter, at least where I live, IMHO is the worst time to do long term testing like this because cold temps, strong winds and driving through snow will have a huge effect on your mileage. If you dont experience the same weather during a 4 tanks, temps, wind, snow, etc, your data can be questioned, especially if your 4th tank happens during the spring thaw and you see a 5% increase. Could you draw a conclusion from that? Heck no. You just have to do the test again. Since conditions in the summer, at least where I live, are more consistent from week to week and the temperature range say 70-95F doesn't have much effect on MPG unless you use AC. So I recommend waiting until summer to do these tests or have someone in a warmer climate do the testing. Also you should not AC during the tests.

DaX · 02-14-2006, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

Maybe I can get the pills and either send you vitamins or the gas pills.

LoL, what if this miracle gas pill is really just like a Centrum or something like that. "Centrum Silver, from A to 50 mpg"

rh77 · 02-14-2006, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaX

"Centrum Silver, from A to 50 mpg"

LOL! Where do you get this stuff?

Seriously, I wouldn't spend the money on it. It's a ploy and the guy hasn't been back to defend his product.

RH77

*yeah another edit -- I need to read the whole post :-P *

If it totally debunks this stuff and we can get it out there on the 'Net, then it may be worth it.

n0rt0npr0 · 02-14-2006, 07:34 AM

I question the same 4 tank thing too and all I can come up with is that thats how long it took them in testing on a few vehicles to dissolve the pill(even tho they say like a couple hours is how long the pill takes to dissolve). This stuff comes in powder too.

Preliminarily, I have ranked the most calm months in my area for 2005. These 6 months had the smallest temp spread:

1) August 37.4 | 1.61
2) December 38.6 | 1.80
3) July 39.8 | 2.18
4) February 41.8 | 2.46
5) June 46 | 0.75
6) September 54.7 | 0.94

I'm not going to annalyze this, I'm just throwing it out there as some rough data. The second part is my personal mpg spread during those months. Since krousdb also mentioned wind and precipitation, I will edit this once more with those values on the 15th... (could these values corrolate with each other?)

But I would really like to know if anyone *thinks* that an electronic RPM limiter would be of any benefit or would not be a benefit to mpg testing?

krousdb · 02-14-2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0rt0npr0

But I would really like to know if anyone *thinks* that an electronic RPM limiter would be of any benefit or would not be a benefit to mpg testing?

I really don't think a rev limiter would help me personally. I have my trip down to a science, what rpm to shift at, what vacuum to hold while accelerating or hill climbing. I can almost do it blindfolded, although I think that would be illegal. :-) There are so many other things that will effect the tank data such as temps, rain, snow, and energy lost to braking, that we might want to look at other areas to control. Maybe counting stoplights and idle time.

Or maybe we should take a different approach. Instead of trying to analyze the first four tanks, when the manufacturer says there may not be a difference anyway, lets just focus on a shorter repeatable test. We would run a control test under a certain set of environmental conditions and record the data with a scan gauge or the car's computer display. Then put in the pills, run 4 tanks through and on the 5th tank, duplicate the control test under the same environmental conditions. Im not a statistician, but a 50+ mile test, back and forth to negate wind and elevation changes should give us solid evidence if these pills work. I guess the same would work with acetone but you only need to run 2 tanks through.

Matt Timion · 02-14-2006, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krousdb

Or maybe we should take a different approach. Instead of trying to analyze the first four tanks, when the manufacturer says there may not be a difference anyway, lets just focus on a shorter repeatable test. We would run a control test under a certain set of environmental conditions and record the data with a scan gauge or the car's computer display. Then put in the pills, run 4 tanks through and on the 5th tank, duplicate the control test under the same environmental conditions. Im not a statistician, but a 50+ mile test, back and forth to negate wind and elevation changes should give us solid evidence if these pills work. I guess the same would work with acetone but you only need to run 2 tanks through.

This sounds very viable to me. A member of our forum, also from Salt Lake City, named Ernie Rogers modified his vw bug to decrease aerodynamic drag. He drives from Salt Lake City, UT to Wendover, NV as his testing strip. It's flat and it's about 150 miles in each direction (I think). When I get my new engine installed I'm going to start making the same trips as him for testing purposes.

Anyway, you're right about the testing. If the manufacturer says 4 tanks, we should give it four tanks. Using scangauge as a test is also an amazing benefit for obd2 cars. You can get instant feedback on the benefits of modifications.

Hopefully the SuperMID-M1 will prove to be useful to obd0 and obd1 cars.