1982 GMC 2.8 liter HHO - Gas Savers

flapdoodle · 04-04-2011, 12:27 AM

It has been slow going getting this mini pickup ready for HHO. I bought it with 65,000 actual miles without realizing the previous owner never did ANY maintenance. The only part of the engine that was usable was the block. Original brakes, shocks rusted on, TWO INCHES of cigarette buts on the cab floor. Weeks to remove hail dents. I started last August.

It is not broken in yet, but I started installing the HHO gen...

Four HHO cels lined up in a rack on the inside of the right fender. The end closest to the firewall has the vacuum switch and relay that turns the HHO on and off.

This is a 120 watt solar panel that will mount on the deck behind the cab. Measures 56" X 26.5"

In theory, the solar panel will reduce alternator load and therefore power robing.

**Jay2TheRescue** · 04-04-2011, 05:39 AM

I have to say, this is the first instance where I think HHO might get real gains, as you're using a solar panel to power the unit, not the alternator.

theclencher · 04-04-2011, 10:37 AM

As if that's the only roadblock to functional HHO...

**theholycow** · 04-04-2011, 11:12 AM

Folks, remember this IS the HHO section...not really any point posting HHO skepticism in a project thread posted here. I haven't seen a successful, credible HHO project yet but I'm happy to read about one of our members experimenting with completely DIY systems.

It's not like he's trying to sell kits or something.

**Jay2TheRescue** · 04-04-2011, 11:25 AM

The big hangup for me is the 2nd law of Thermodynamics. You can't get more energy out of a system than you put into it. This is why I believe alternator powered HHO is a futile attempt. If one is powering an HHO bank with free additional energy from solar power, than real gains in terms of MPG of gasoline might be seen.

**theholycow** · 04-04-2011, 11:43 AM

I don't disagree (although I think the solar energy would be better utilized in a more direct way), but I don't see the point of naysaying in a thread like this.

I hope flapdoodle proves us wrong and we learn from it.

In order for my post to have something on-topic in it, how about I embed the full-size photos he has? Those thumbnails are tough to see!

Looks like a decently large solar panel.

**Jay2TheRescue** · 04-04-2011, 11:50 AM

If I had a 120 watt solar panel I think I'd have it charging a bank of batteries and run my LED flat screen TV for free, but I'm curious to see what it does in the truck.

BEEF · 04-04-2011, 12:17 PM

I don't know how much that would really help his equation. not trying to be a naysayer but usually the HHO guys are using a lot of current. I have never heard of a solar panel that would do more than trickle charge something.

one thing that would be interesting is running the truck without an alternator but have those hooked up so it trickle charges on sunny days. heck, it almost looks like you could put two of the solar panels on there. I bet they were expensive though.

good luck on the HHO thing.

flapdoodle · 04-04-2011, 03:31 PM

Uh, well actually, these are the cells I used on my '76 Lincoln Towncar. First thing I did was take the entire unit and try it with the worn out 2.8 Liter. Worked fine. It drew 8 amps, or about what the headlight draw. The Lincoln had 12 cells.

The solar panel was $125 on eBay. Also got a solar controller for $29 (which I highly recommend for any solar project).I tested it for some time before I was satisfied to do the HHO project in the truck.

I also watched here: http://www.wunderground.com/weathers....asp?ID=MREMN5 to get an idea how many watts were available at different times of the year. Your area may have similar weather sites.

As for the usual nay-sayers... Have YOU tried it??

theclencher · 04-04-2011, 03:34 PM

Naysaying? How about bringing some sense to it?

Even if the electricity were FREE, yes FREE, would:

1) the HHO generator produce a useable quantity

2) the engine suddenly be able to successfully do HCCI combustion- you know, the reason to use hydrogen in an engine; it's not just another fuel- something that hasn't been commercially successful anywhere?

As far as "trying it"- I don't need to try square tires to know they won't work...

flapdoodle · 04-04-2011, 03:38 PM

Which oil company do you work for?

theclencher · 04-04-2011, 04:26 PM

Same one we all do...

Dr. Jerryrigger · 05-12-2011, 08:38 AM

Okay, so I personally can see that there is a possibility that HHO could help. I am not positive it does, but I know the physics of an ICE are more complicated than x joules in, y joules out.
That aside, because this is not a debate thread,
What are you using for cells? Voltage per gap?
8Amps * 14V= 112 watts if your using a very high ef HHO cell you could be getting 6mmw or 672ml per min.
From what I've read; you should be shooting for 2 to 4 times that, and if your cell's aren't that eff, you'll need even more.

One thing that I think is quite important (and most people don't think about) is the ratio of gas production to engine load. It's a crude set up to have it producing the same at idle as under heavy acceleration. Also having it shut off during DFCO would be a good idea.

flapdoodle · 05-12-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Jerryrigger

What are you using for cells? Voltage per gap?

8Amps * 14V= 112 watts if your using a very high ef HHO cell you could be getting 6mmw or 672ml per min.

From what I've read; you should be shooting for 2 to 4 times that, and if your cell's aren't that eff, you'll need even more.

One thing that I think is quite important (and most people don't think about) is the ratio of gas production to engine load. It's a crude set up to have it producing the same at idle as under heavy acceleration. Also having it shut off during DFCO would be a good idea.

The same cells I have been using for the last few years in my Lincoln, but cut the number from 12 to 4 cells. Each has a titanium plate and a stainless plate 3" x 3/4" spaced about 1/64 inch apart with nylon washers and nylon bolts. Many weeks were spent bench testing.

This is going slow.... new upholstery distracted me for a bit, but the solar panel is mounted behind the cab with the controller under it connected to a good size deep cycle battery. Output from the controller will run the HHO, NOT the battery. Here is why... the controller tries to run the load from the Sun without tapping into the battery if possible. With more Sun, it splits the output to load and battery,

I added a 60-0-60 ammeter to the dash but only measures the alternator output. (4 amps idle, 20 amps with lights on.) This confirmed a suspicion I have had for years. There is a nasty surge from the alternator during starting.

Will probable wire the HHO to the original battery first so I can see the alternator load while driving.

Dr. Jerryrigger · 06-22-2011, 11:04 AM

Any updates?

Also what kind of mmw numbers are you getting from these cells?