Getting a 78MPG Diesel into the USA - Gas Savers

Davo53209 · 02-01-2007, 08:37 AM

What would it take to get either a 3-cylinder Audi A2 or VW Lupo into this country? Granted, I am aware that newer models have been discontinued, however, if you were to look on EbayUK.com, they are still fairly common to find. Along with that, what sort of obstacles would be faced?

For sometime now, I've been looking at the stats of either vehicle and the curb weight for both cars is around 2100lbs at 78MPG US gallons. That's about the same weight as my 98 Honda Civic CX. The point in mentioning, is that even if I were not able to get either car into the country, then I would be willing to consider buying the engine, transmission, gearbox, ECU, etc. while attempting a transplant into hauled out Honda VX or Crx HF. Just to be clear, the idea of an actual transplant is for now speculatory at best; but can you imagine the added MPG that would be gained if it could push 1700LBS CRX HF?

DaX · 02-01-2007, 09:02 AM

All the Lupos on UK eBay look to be gasoline. It would be incredibly difficult and not worth your time or money to get the car LEGALLY registered for legal driving here in the US.

I don't recommend it, but it COULD be possible to get the car into the country then register it as something else, but this is HIGHLY illegal and you shouldn't do it.

Purchasing a powertrain and setting it up in another vehicle sounds like the best option.

Currently diesel in my area is about 25% more expensive than gasoline (about $1.95 compared to $2.40 per gallon). Taking prices into comparison, you'd spend the same on fuel on a gasoline car that gets about 63 MPG as you would on the 78 MPG diesel.

Matt Timion · 02-01-2007, 09:04 AM

I think that the Lupo isn't rated for US safety standards, so it will be next to impossible to get it into the country.

I would love to see a transplant though, but it would definately be a ton of work. It might be much easier to transplant the lupo powerplant into an old jetta.

Davo53209 · 02-01-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaX

All the Lupos on UK eBay look to be gasoline. It would be incredibly difficult and not worth your time or money to get the car LEGALLY registered for legal driving here in the US.

I don't recommend it, but it COULD be possible to get the car into the country then register it as something else, but this is HIGHLY illegal and you shouldn't do it.

Purchasing a powertrain and setting it up in another vehicle sounds like the best option.

Currently diesel in my area is about 25% more expensive than gasoline (about $1.95 compared to $2.40 per gallon). Taking prices into comparison, you'd spend the same on fuel on a gasoline car that gets about 63 MPG as you would on the 78 MPG diesel.

Actually, the Lupos in Europe are both diesel and gasoline, or "petrol" as the British like to call it. Recently, I had found a complete engine for a 1.0 liter 3-cylinder Lupo on EbayUK.com, but as state earlier, I would most likely need the complete drive train, and ECU to achieve the desired fuel ecomomy. Lately, however, I've been having problems trying to find a repair manual for the Lupo and Audi A2. Know where I can get one?

omgwtfbyobbq · 02-01-2007, 12:55 PM

I wouldn't want to set up the 1.2L TDI/CVT, but a smaller four cylinder 1.4L TDI/manual transmission/fixins is available for $3500 from importers iirc. That being said, a 1.9L TDI in a Rabbit in good shape should net ~75mpg@50mph, about the same as a lean burn Honda hatch. The difference being in top gear, cruising below 50mph, the diesel whips on the Honda, and in top gear above 50mph, the Honda whips on the diesel. I bet going Basjoos on a Rabbit with a TDI could yield some insane mileage numbers... The manual may not be out for some time, relatively new cars, and low volume.

Hockey4mnhs · 02-01-2007, 04:27 PM

I thought they cant come here cuss of emmisions so that would be the hard part

omgwtfbyobbq · 02-01-2007, 04:33 PM

For a swap, emissions are done on a state by state basis, but if you already have a diesel, I doubt they'll care about putting a newer/cleaner one in. In CA, there is no inspection, just pay reg and you're done.

smartzuuk · 02-02-2007, 12:25 AM

For the USA, cars have to be 25 years old to get in. Canada isn't as bad - you can bring in 15 year old cars.

Lug_Nut · 02-19-2007, 06:01 PM

"Kit" cars are another way. The major sticking points are the window glass, the brake hoses and the tires. These have to have DOT certification. Importing a shell with no glass, no driveline and no tires or brake hoses, should be much easier than bringing in a complete car. A second shipment of auto parts might just happen to contain glass, driveline and brake hoses to complete a homebuilt kit.

occupant · 02-20-2007, 07:10 PM

It's NOT easy to do. I was looking into importing a Chevrolet Pop Joy from Mexico into the US. After all the research, I determined that there are only three ways I could do it legally.

1) Spend a LOT of money for a customs approved importer to go over the car and add bumper shocks and door beams and an exhaust system with a catalytic converter and air pump and an airbag system from a European Corsa and a bunch of other items to get it up to 1994 US EPA and USDOT standards. The importer estimated $5400 of work on a $2000 car, plus customs duties and other costs, and it would cost me close to $10K to end up with a 12-year old Corsa clone with no AC and a bunch of equipment it shouldn't have to have.

2) Import both a European Corsa and the Mexican Pop Joy and swap all the European parts over to the Mexican model and hope it's good enough for EPA and DOT. Estimated cost of this with the $2000 Mexican car, $2200 in parts, $1200 parts car, $1800 shipping, and customs duties and taxes and I was looking at OVER $10K for this $2000 beater car.

3) Move in Mexico for a few years, get dual citizenship, buy a Pop Joy down there, enjoy it for a year, renew the tags, bring it back to Texas, get it registered with the Mexican national exemption, then renounce my Mexican citizenship and have myself the car. Assuming I could get a job down there, and assuming I hadn't gotten married in May of 2005, this would be the cheapest way to do it. $2000 for the car, $500-$700 in Mexican and Texas title/registration/inspection fees, and $125 for a shop to throw on a universal cat converter.

It's a pain in the rear. Wait a LONG time, then get the car you want when it's 25 years old. *IF* you can find one then. For example, one of the cars I've loved all my life is the 1979-1982 Datsun 210 (known as B310, Sunny, and other names around the world). They made a 2-door sedan delivery version in Australia and the UK, and now that ALL of them are 25 years old, I might get one for myself if I can find one someday. Last one I saw was on the Oz eBay 2 years back and it sold for the equivalent of $1000. Of course it'd cost a mint to ship but I'd most definitely have the ONLY one in the US.

kickflipjr · 02-20-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

3) Move in Mexico for a few years, get dual citizenship, buy a Pop Joy down there, enjoy it for a year, renew the tags, bring it back to Texas, get it registered with the Mexican national exemption, then renounce my Mexican citizenship and have myself the car. Assuming I could get a job down there, and assuming I hadn't gotten married in May of 2005, this would be the cheapest way to do it. $2000 for the car, $500-$700 in Mexican and Texas title/registration/inspection fees, and $125 for a shop to throw on a universal cat converter.

Wow, that is one crazy way to get the car

atomicradish · 05-23-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

3) Move in Mexico for a few years, get dual citizenship, buy a Pop Joy down there, enjoy it for a year, renew the tags, bring it back to Texas, get it registered with the Mexican national exemption, then renounce my Mexican citizenship and have myself the car. Assuming I could get a job down there, and assuming I hadn't gotten married in May of 2005, this would be the cheapest way to do it. $2000 for the car, $500-$700 in Mexican and Texas title/registration/inspection fees, and $125 for a shop to throw on a universal cat converter.

that made me lol.

I'd keep the citizenship though, just incase I ever wanted another Pop Joy or any other econocar.

Coyote X · 05-23-2007, 08:25 PM

You guys should move to WV, If you have a title and the car here then you can get it licensed. The only inspection is to make sure it has working lights/glass and a cat on the exhaust. The cat doesn't even have to work it can be a shell for all they care

Getting a kit car with no VIN legal takes a few more forms and not much else to get it legal.

So maybe an option would be to move here, have a car shipped here license it then move back to whatever state you want to. But then again considering this is one of the few states that pretty much leaves you alone and doesn't care what you do why would you ever want to leave

Mike T · 05-23-2007, 09:12 PM

78 US MPG is achievable with my car. I know of a few US citizens who have either managed to license a CDN smart fortwo down there, or import a drivetrain and install it in a smart "glider" (car sold without a drivetrain).

The real world fuel consumption of the fortwo cdi and Lupo 3L are within 7% of each other, according to www.spritmonitor.de. I suspect the far larger number of smart cdi owners there are generally less obsessive about fuel economy than the Lupo 3L owners.

Incidentally, Canada is looking at moving to the US 25 year old import rule in lieu of the present 15 year rule. We can thank the commerical importers of Japanese Kei cars here for that. Damned left hand traffic headlights!!

omgwtfbyobbq · 05-23-2007, 09:52 PM

I was under the opposite impression, because imle, European drivers are nuts. I remember reading a translated post about the 3L, which went on about still being able to get 50mpg at ~100mph on the autobahn.

Mike T · 05-24-2007, 01:54 PM

Well what I meant is that - because the Lupo was available with either a regular TDI engine or the 3L version, and the smart fortwo only has the single cdi version, the people buying the Lupo 3L were doing so because they were committed FE fanatics. Otherwise they'd have bought the more powerful regular TDI.

smart buyers only have the one car on offer, all of which are potentially 3L cars, but I would speculate that fewer than 33% of the smart cdi owners are FE fanatics. Some - like me - enjoy the excelllent FE, but modify their cars in ways that can lower FE (wider wheels/tires, for example) and so will not go to extremes to hypermile.

One exception to that rule here is the smart car "Antoine" that has been here at GasSavers for a month or so. Its average FE is over 82 US MPG.

omgwtfbyobbq · 05-24-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike T

the people buying the Lupo 3L were doing so because they were committed FE fanatics. Otherwise they'd have bought the more powerful regular TDI.

Whoa nelly. You're getting a bit ahead of yourself methinks. While it may be the case (who knows), w/o a detailed study of 3L and Smart CDi buyers, there's no way I can see anyone quantifying that statement. There are also plenty of other reasons why someone would buy a 3L Lupo compared to one w/ the 1.4L TDI, such as average carbon dioxide emissions (green) or average mileage over the vehicle's lifetime (cost), so making blanket statements about why owners buy cars generally isn't exactly... logical.

In any event, on the Euro combined cycle, the 3L Lupo gets 2.99l/100km, and the Smart CDi gets 3.3l/100km, so there seems to be difference of roughly 10% in FE. What you're mentioning is likely related to the traffic density in Europe, i.e. the Smart would get better city mileage than the VW, so the difference in what you've noticed on that German site is less than the difference on the Euro cycle. Otoh, I'm betting the Smart would fall behind that 10% difference as driving was more and more open rural roads and highways. It really depends on driving condition in order to determine which one would be more efficient. As for using your opinion of supposed driver motivation to normalize efficiency, well... You're reaching just a little bit. A very big little bit.

psyshack · 05-24-2007, 06:25 PM

Not to change the subject. But my mother told me yesterday she is thinking about a smart. She has always like small cars. She has been the proud owner of NSU, Fiat 850 Coupe, LeCar, CRX Si, and drives a two door Sentra right now. I asked her to hold off if she could and see if a clean oil burner will come to the States in two or so years. She said that was doable. As she would never by a first year model of anything.

Mike T · 05-24-2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omgwtfbyobbq

You're getting a bit ahead of yourself

Well I didn't realise that intuition was banned here

Had smart offered a super-economy version of the fortwo then it'd have been subject to the same comment, on my part.

I wonder how many Lupo 3L buyers immediately went out and bought new wider wheels and tires for their cars, remapped it for more power and....well I think most people would understand what I'm on about. The regular Lupo TDI had all those things...

With respect to the actual fuel efficiency difference, spritmonitor indicates that the Lupo 3L owners average 3.84 L/100 km, whereas smart fortwo cdi owners average 4.19 L/100 km, so the Lupo 3L consumes about 8% less on average. The best Lupo 3L is 2.97 L/100 km and the best smart cdi is 2.86 L/100 km.

FWIW.

omgwtfbyobbq · 05-24-2007, 08:46 PM

Well, only intuition that leads to generalizations.

For that matter, larger tires may not impact efficiency much in a properly designed car.

In terms of mileage, iirc, someone driving a 1.4L TDI Lupo is averaging ~2.8l/100km (pester me to look this up because I'll probably forget), so it's more the driver than the car ime.

Hell, hopefully I'll be at around 3l/100km in a three decade old IDI diesel.