Because they offer a 3.0L turbocharged 4x4 that gets ~50mpg@50mph, that's why.

What's really disgusting is that VW could be putting out 70-80+mpg station wagons if they paid any attention to aero. These are f'in pickups getting the same as VW diesels.

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Indeed. By addressing aerodynamics and weight, we could have 70+ mpg midsize cars(GM Precept, Dodge Intrepid ESX2), 90+ mpg sports cars(Opel Eco Speedster), 150+ mpg compact cars(Loremo LS, Daihatsu UFE-III), and 40 mpg large SUVs(UC Davis Futuretruck entries such as modified GM Suburbans).

A doubling of fuel economy is possible without any meaningful cost penalty(in those cases where there is even one present), without a reduction in performance, and without a reduction in vehicle luxury or utility. For all practical purposes, the consumer wouldn't be sacrificing a damn thing.

But profit margins on high maintenance gas guzzlers are much higher than they are on fuel efficient cars, therefore that is what the auto industry will sell. The automakers are beholden to their shareholders, and no one else. This is not the way the 'free market' was meant to be.




PHOTO CAPTION: Buried under the bullet-like hood of recreation of a classic 1941 Willy's pickup is a 6.5 liter, 350hp, twin-turbo diesel engine that runs on biodiesel fuel and gets an estimated 38 mpg. Photo courtesy of Institute of Ecolonomics and Ecosense Solutions.

http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?sect...e&storyid=1116

I just read today that Toyota is buying a major share of Isuzu to use their Diesel technology to compete with the upcoming U.S. Honda Diesel in '09.

Article.

RH77

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I have said this on the diesel forum a million times, but I want 3 rows of seats in a station wagon (Passat style) with a nice 1.3L diesel in it. I don't care about top speed or 0-60 times. I care about getting from point A to point B safe and efficiently. I would be willing to bet I could get 70+ mpg’s with that setup, even more if it weighed less, VW’s are heavy little cars

And to top it off, that is an option in Europe, well I believe it is a 1.7L now instead of a 1.3L, but they make the darn car, we just can’t get it across the pond with the steering wheel on the correct side

Along those lines, a 1.4L TDI in one of the Mazda5's would be nice, but the car's still to new to make it a practical swap. A Volvo 240 might make a decent swap candidate. Hmmm...

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Americas basically don't like diesel's. I don't like them except in big trucks where massive amounts of torque are needed.

The offerings that where made by the big three in years past didn't sell because of the above and because they where junk engines. Very pron to failure. I saw a lot of GM's diesels suck cylinder sleeves. Why? Because they took the ubber cheap route and basically used gas engine blocks and modded heads. None of which will hold up in the diesel. Some others where German adaptations of engines they wouldn't sell in there native market.

I look forward to seeing Honda's new diesel and see what Yota comes up with out of the Isuzu parts bends. And with the emission standards it should be real interesting to see how much they will cost. Not to mention over all maint. cost.

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09 HCHII, w/Navi
07 Mazda3 S Touring, 5MT
Mild Hypermiler or Mad Man?

Exactly -- freakin Oldsmobile and Cadillac! BUT...

For my generation (X+1/Y-1) and younger, those blasted (literally) engines may not be on our minds.

A Diesel Technology Forum Article cites a survey that younger generations are likely to purchase a new "Clean Diesel" vehicle (by a wide margin).

If we can just forget about those exploding Olds' and smokey Mercedes', then we can move on and give it another try. I don't think America will be disappointed.

RH77

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The other German adaption was the use of BMW motors in Lincolns. There were a few around here for a while.



And don't forget the uber-rare diesel 1960s Studebaker Larks. Perkins three-bangers if memory serves.

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"Knowledge is Good"

-Emil Faber

...and the Mercedes W116 and W126 body cars with diesel motors were US only....and there is supposedly one converted W107 here in the US.....YUCK!

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"Knowledge is Good"

-Emil Faber

.....and the attempt at a VM diesel in the MkIII Jaguar XJ for the US market.....

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"Knowledge is Good"

-Emil Faber

Supposedly, the later "generation" GM diesels in the cars were MUCH better, but the PR damage was done. A friend Ohio knew a guy 15 odd years ago in that would buy them up and send them to his brother in the Czech Republic......who in turn, sent Tatra 603s and 613s back. Both made money on their respective sides of the Atlantic.

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"Knowledge is Good"

-Emil Faber

...the Cummings in the Dodge trucks is supposedly of European origins, then how soon we forget the VW motors that Volvo used in the 200 and 700 series cars.

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"Knowledge is Good"

-Emil Faber

I was in another part of the city this morning for a birthday get-together and stopped for some RH77-fuel (coffee). I got returned to my car and heard this rattling monstrousity to my left. It was a late 80's Range Rover.

Now, the driver left it running but I didn't mind...

The plot thickens.

It turns out he converted Rover over to Bio-Diesel! He had to leave it running or else it would gel-up in the mid-20's temps -- kind of a work in progress. I guess he needed an off-roader/SUV without the guilt. It just struck me as odd because I don't see very many Diesel cars with green "Bio-Diesel" stickers around here (...and we have soybeans galore!)

RH77

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LOL -- I can see it now -- they had to push it down the street, use a rope to pull the block free from the clutch and jump in before it got away. Sheesh.

It was rather funny, as he let it idle -- he had a second set of keys to lock the door, and he nervously made sure it was locked. I'm sure he spent some time on the project. But yes, I agree -- he needs to get a heated fuel system going to "do it up right". Seems foolish otherwise.

RH77

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I'd like to build my armed and armored B100/electric-fueled BATTLETRUCK idea. That would be pretty cool. Or build a B100 powered dune buggy, with a body based on the Model T Metro MPG posted pictures of, a 300+ HP turbodiesel engine, and a huge 40+ gallon tank.

A biodiesel Range Rover would have nothing on something as mentioned above!

When the BATTLETRUCK comes together, I'd like to borrow/rent it if I may (being a fellow Missourian ) to blast the **** out of "Mall-Rated" Jeeps and cell-phone wielding yuppies in their Euro-Imports. Yes, I'm bitter.

Of course, I'd replace the ammo upon return, and the B100

RH77

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She would come complete with a camoflauge paintjob, a Gadsden flag banner over the rear aeroshell, and a bunch of NRA bumperstickers plastered about the rear. The more than 1 ton of battery weight would add additional stability and crushing force.


I bet that engine in that Range Rover is a thing of beauty, even if the choice of vehicle may not be the best.

Must have been a grey market Range Rover, diesels were never sold here offically. I have only seen one stateside. Where I lived in Ohio, there were quite a few real (grey market) G-wagons with 2.3l four petrol or assorted diesels. Ditto with Unimogs. Unfortunately, my Unimog experience was an oldie with a petrol six (Fintail/Ponton motor) with ZERO torque.

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"Knowledge is Good"

-Emil Faber

I picked up a chevette diesel a few months back for 200 bucks. it needs a fair bit of work, but once its done it'll replace my gas chevette. I'll probably do a duel tank setup for bio in one and wvo in the other, except in winter of course.

'Vettes are cool, I had a 1978 4 door hatch many many many years ago. I used to bounce mine off snowbanks for fun.

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Nice find! IIRC, the D-Vette has a pretty robust Isuzu Diesel that should be reliable and efficient when tuned (instead of GM's "Smoke 'em if you got 'em" Diesel bombs in the Olds' and Caddies).

Good luck -- and keep us posted!

RH77

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I was thinking along those lines, since this is the only one I remember seeing over here. It looked like a U.S. version, possibly transplanted with an imported engine. I'm not up on my Rovers, but if you were to do some serious off-roading, the Land Rover Defender has been the equivalent of the Jeep in the UK Military. Can't get it here, though...

RH77

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There is not much difference between the E and US-DOT version, the grey market one I saw was a two door. Not many people realize that design goes back to 1971 or so.

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-Emil Faber

VW DOES put out 70~80 mpg wagons.
My (now late) 96 Passat wagon returned 77 mpg on B100 during the NESEA 2005 Tour de Sol "Monte Carlo Rally" weekend event.
My previous 96 Passat sedan returned 83+, also on B100, during their 2003 Tour de Sol week long event.

The problem is VW has fallen in to the bigger is better engine trap along with so many others for the US market. Since they made the Passat Wagons the MPG has kept falling and still is, hopefully they will stop this tread and head back up. I understand some of this is due to better emission standards, but some is the addition of more and more HP. I am glad I got my 03 right before the larger PD engine came out, last of the high mileage cars…

Hey Lug what was your best single tank in the Passat, 1300 miles?

EPA says no way. I'm not putting down your driving techniques, routes, etc... But the fact is they build vehicles with terrible aerodynamics and rely heavily on engine efficiency for their high mileage offerings. If they offered a small station wagon ala Saturn with better aero, LRR tires, and the 1.2L or 1.4L TDI, they'd probably have something that could pull 70-80mpg EPA.

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I don't know if I would call them terrible aerodynamics. My VW Jetta wagon is listed at .28 it is heavy comes with LRR tires, but rated as the safest in it's size with airbag all the way around, including the back seats. It looks like the Saturn has a CD of .36, not very good...

Are you sure about that? VW of Canada has the Jetta Wagon with a Cd of .32 which seems to be the same as the Saturn L200. I always figured Saturns had about the same drag coef with less reference area (~25ft^2 (for mk5 jetta) compared to 21ft^2(Saturn L200)) , so they should have a significant advantage in terms of aero. I don't think it'd be a stretch for VW to build a wagon with drag coef of ~.27 and 20ft^2 of reference area, although the LRR tire thing is interesting, I wonder what models came, with, or without them.

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And what is the EPA rating of "small Isuzu diesel pickups...they offer a 3.0L turbocharged 4x4 that gets ~50mpg@50mph"?
I'm fortunate that I don't drive on a treadmill following a proscribed test acceleration and brake pattern for set times and distances. I suppose that if I had to drive the EPA cycle I'd get close to EPA figures. A steady 50 mph in my TDI is 70+ mpg.

To answer the other question: I've gotten just over 1400 miles per tank three times. By "just over" I mean by less than 30 miles over.

I'm not sure, because they haven't tested them. My point was that if Mistu can make a 4x4 3L TDI pickup that gets 50mpg@50mph, VW could make a more efficient wagon, not that the current TDIs can't get good mileage, it's just they could be so much better. They are cars, not 4x4 pickups, and can only get 40% better mileage? VW just doesn't design efficient gliders, they just rely on their efficient drivetrains.

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