Bring Your Hho Questions!!!

[Lurch]

I have been reading a lot of the hho threads and i can answer almost all of your questions, i dont have the time to hunt them down and then compete with the people that think the earth is flat.
Not everyone is suited for driving small cars in a smart way. I am nearly 7 foot tall and i have a size 15 foot. the only way i get a geo to move is if i throw it.
hydrogen is a viable solution and i do actually have a working model, i dont have the numbers you want right now, but that is only because i am to busy stress testing everything. i build my own cosm and my own pwm. if you want to learn or ask questions feel free. If you want to nit-pick and annoy i dont have the time.

[JohnNeiferd]

Hey, welcome to the forum. I currently don't have any questions but thanks anyway for trying to help out. You're a lot better teaching people DIY solutions than those people who get on here advertising the latest HHO generators that cost $500 when you can build one for less than $50.

So thanks again, and welcome.

[Lurch]

people have helped me to learn what i know, i dont mind helping others.
and besides if your systems is actually worthwhile you dont have to try and sell it, it will sell itself.

[Jay2TheRescue]

It will sell itself... That's a fantastic way to see it.

-Jay

[Zukibot]

Originally Posted by Lurch

...i do actually have a working model, i dont have the numbers you want right now, but that is only because i am to busy stress testing everything. i build my own cosm and my own pwm...

Needless to say, but pics or it didn't happen...

[Lurch]

Originally Posted by Zukibot

Needless to say, but pics or it didn't happen...

was that a question?

[Jay2TheRescue]

He's saying he wants several good pics of your installed setup.

[Lurch]

Okay, i'm a little edgy this morning... i will work on it.
i dont even have a camera... yet

[AmachinistJeff]

Hello Lurch,
I am concerned with the lean out conditions of running Browns Gas in an internal combustion engine. My expereince is that lean engines run hot, and damage pistons and valves. Adding of Oxygen to combustion will increase efficancy. Nitrous oxide injection greatly increases power, but only can be done reliably if more fuel is added to prevent lean damage.
I am assuming that HHO is 66% hydrogen, and 33% oxygen. How much Oxygen is need to burn the Hydrogen? Would there be any Oxygen left to lean out the Gasoline/Air mixture?
I have read alot of post, Web sites, and watched many Videos on HHO generators this week. I have even made a generator, installed it, and made a MAP sensor Voltage adjuster. I am concerned about excessive leaning of the engine however. Most people seem to think that the lean condition of the O2 sensor is due to the clean burn of the Hydrogen. Is this the fact?
I also havn't seem to find any information as to Timing adjustments. Should engine timing remain the same, or is advance/retard in order?
Do you know of the longest someone has operated a vehicle on HHO assist? It seems most info I have run across has been; I just built this, I have just tested this, I am thinking of building this/or that.
Thanks for any help, AmachinistJeff

[itjstagame]

I know, I too would like to see long and imperical testing. People either just build it or disappear.

As for O2 sensor, it reads the amount of O2 in the exhaust (or is it %?). We know there is unused O2 and unburnt fuel in the exhaust of a typical car. If you did something to cause the fuel to burn better or more completely or could reduce the amount of fuel coming out the exhaust while using the same amount in the intake, then in order to burn this fuel we'd use O2 and there would be less O2 in the exhaust (lean). Sometimes this can be associated with increased exhaust heat as well and sometimes we burn all the O2 there is but still inject extra fuel to cool the charge and resulting exhaust.

So, if somehow you got a more complete burn in a normal car it would think it's lean and start dumping in more fuel, which is why people usually mod the O2 sensor or ECU. If you're worried about heat the first thing you should do is install an EGT gauge and if the numbers look too high here then I would suggest water injection. Either a mister, bubbler or ceramic vaporizer should help add extra cooling to the charge and add some efficiency advantages due to the expansion characteristics of steam.

Ideally 66% H2 and 33% O2 should 'burn' to create H2O steam, which is why many people call the inherent idea 'free' energy because you're hoping to split water into H2 and O2 and then burn it and somehow get more energy than you started. But the goal is that the H2 and extra O2 also help burn the unburnt gasoline and cause a more complete burn which is why the O2 sensor would read lean. Otherwise if H2 and O2 fully combine back to water then they will not affect the O2 sensor reading at all, if anything they'll take up some room in the intake charge that otherwise would be taken by air (with 8% O2), so I would think you might even see a rich condition.

[ziddey]

Since narrowband sensors are only responsive around normal stoich, there's no real good way to mod a system to still "fully" use a narrowband. The best way would be to go with a wideband that can emulate a narrowband at whatever ratio you want, so you can define a new "stoich". While I probably won't be jumping onto hho myself in the near near future, once I get my car sorted out in terms of just car issues to get it to run fully properly stock, I'm thinking of playing with water injection. While it'd help me with advancing timing, overall, I'd want to be able to go leaner across the board if possible, and the only way I can think of doing this with the ecu functioning in normal open/closed loop modes would be to have a wideband emulate narrowband at a leaner ratio.

[Lurch]

Sorry guys, been busy last few days and havent had a chance to get on here.
Hydrogen systems arent as simple as ebay or youtube would have someone believe. I have a water cooled intercooler on my test car just to cool the intake air, i also have a temp sensor directly on the head of my car. but as far as changing the timing, it shouldnt be an issue as of yet.
Most generators reach fairly high temps and therefore create more of the excited hydrogen knows as Orthohydrogen, ortho burns hot and fast thats what makes us have to reset the timing and watch engine temp.
I have a secondary generator on my car that produces Parahydrogen. para burns slower and not very hot at all. we can get around temp and timing issues by regulating the mix of these 2 different kinds of hydrogen being put into your engine.. adjusted right it can completely simulate the octane rating of the fuel your car requires.
i have been running my system for roughly a month now, and no i dont have any numbers on the mileage i was actually working on this for the power increase. i have a 280z built for drifting and just thought it would be a cool addition, but i can assure you it has given me more power and smoother acceleration then i ever thought my engine was capable of, i have to look at the gauges just to be sure the thing is running.

[Lurch]

Forgot to talk about lean out conditions on my last post
the idea of hho is not to lean out fuel entirely, but to lean out gasoline and replace that with hho.
we arent removing fuel, just changing what we are burning.

[JRKyle]

Only one month into the "testing Phase" of a HHO Gen. and I took a peak on the inside of the housing....

The Plates, threaded rods and nuts looked like they were "Melting" ??? Yeah!! They Are Stanless Steel .. ((all Non-Magnetic all Non-Fe))

What's going On Here??

I am getting a High resistance reading on the Ohm Meter...

I have four photographs of the effect that I am getting from this condition.

I followed the instruction to the letter ... Except for the part about Glueing the Top of the PVC on -- I did seal it with a nice bead of sealent. I did this so I could clean it out better and inspect the plates -- Damn good thing that I did that...

Jim.

[OUScooby]

Hey lurch,

I got interested with HHO first as a skeptic, but them began reading a little more started wonder weather there might be something to it and began researching more about and got to the point where I was ready to try to install a system on my own car. From there after reading more and more and seeing outlandish claims and conflicting information, I began to wonder back to the skeptics side. Anyway here are the practical problems I never was able to get answers for:
I have a subaru wrx with a 2.0L turbo charged motor.
My first problem is this. The most common method of installing HHO is to tap the HHO into the airbox. My concern is with having a turbo charged car, what failsafes can I install to ensure that water will not accidently be pumped into the air intake and in turn into the hot turbo which would be catastrophic for the turbo?
Overcoming this my question deals with the heat generated by the turbo. Turbochargers generate a lot of heat. If I pump the HHO pre-turbo could the heat generated ignite the hydrogen in the turbo before it even reaches the intake manifold and the engine?
If the answer to the above question is to pump the hydrogen post-turbo than how do I over come the pressure generated by the turbo to inject the HHO? My boost peaks at 17.3 psi is I try to inject the hydrogen into the intercooler or the intake manifold how do I stop the manifold pressure simple pushing the hydrogen back to the generator?

[RoadWarrior]

I would recommending cutting the the HHO on and off with the evap canister solenoid signal and routing it with inline checkvalves through the evap system... This is because, this will already be set up to avoid reverse flow under boost, it will only work in vacuum. Secondly, the ECU "knows" when it is doing an evap purge, and is prepared to let the injectors go much leaner at this time. As such the ECU kind of has control over the HHO system and will not try tuning around it, or tuning it out.

However, then you have to figure under what conditions the ECU frequently triggers evap purge and try only to drive in those conditions (Typically it's at high vacuum cruise, which is real convenient)

[pdai11]

I have just fitted a 13 plate dry cell to a Saab 93 2.2 turbo diesel. Been using it for over 2 weeks and see no gain but actually loss 3-4 mpg. I connected the output hose to the air intake hose 4 inches from going to the turbo. Should i relocate the hose near to the airbox before or after the MAF sensor ?

[Sedberry09]

I am very close to installing my HHO system on my 2006 4.7 V8 Dodge Dakota, , I am now at the sensor enhancement phase. I need a MAP and Dual EFIE enhancer. I would like some feedback on which digital MAP/EFIE enhancer I should go with while trying to avoid paying an overly ridiculous price. Is "soft start" the way to go, and what about a digital voltage meter?
Any Ideas?