FE Team Challenge - discussion - Page 2 - Gas Savers

zpiloto · 03-12-2007, 04:26 PM

If basjoos mixed number is suppose to be 38 MPG I have the team EPA numbers as:
Team 1 (Man, we need to come up with a name)
77.92 %

Team 2
68.05 %

That's almost a 10% advantage for team 1. I think we need to be a little closer starting out. Why don't we add 7% to team 2 to bring them more into line. I'm guessing 1-3% for Metro cam swap since we don't have any data on that.

This of course depends if basjoos numbers are incorrect.

basjoos · 03-12-2007, 07:32 PM

I updated my car to the new EPA numbers (42/33/37).

omgwtfbyobbq · 03-12-2007, 08:07 PM

Under Modifications...

Quote:

It was originally powered by a 2.8 liter V6 gasoline engine and is now powered (more than equally, I might add) by a CARB compliant 1.9 liter inline turbo diesel I swapped in. Factory remote control for door unlock, window, sunroof and alarm added. Satellite radio receiver added. Class 1 (1,500 lb) tow receiver added.

Peakster · 03-12-2007, 08:17 PM

NICE swap! I too wondered about the 130+% above EPA.

zpiloto · 03-12-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Oh ya that?s right. The diesel version was rated at 31-35-41. Should we use those numbers since that's what the diesel was rated at or is that just considered a modification? That might get team 1 closer to team 2 to start.

Just throwing out an idea as to who wins (beside all of us). Maybe go by a % change from what the numbers now to 1 month and 2 months and so on?

So right now

team 1 is 77.92
team 2 is 68.05

after a month say team one is at 79.92 and team 2 is at 71.05. The team 1 would be 2% up and team 2 would have beat us being 3% up?

That way we start where we were to even the playing field?

Lug_Nut needs to use the gas numbers. His wagon has been modified so it goes along with other modified cars.

From a previous post:
I think we need to be a little closer starting out. Why don't we add 7% to team 2 to bring them more into line. I'm guessing 1-3% for Metro cam swap since we don't have any data on that.

zpiloto · 03-12-2007, 09:45 PM

I think we have 2 more things to iron out.

1. I think we should give team 2 a 7% handicap to start everyone at the same level. We'll keep that through out the competition.

2. The offical stats will be posted every 30 days. I think that it would be good to have weekly updates to see how it's going. The weekly stats would be based on fills and or FE instrumention(SG or SmID) if you have it. If you do not fill in a week just give the MPG for the tank off the SG. These numbers are just estimates because we go by actual fill data. We can have a thread for weekly updates that everyone post to on Sunday. When you record the data on the thread just list if it's actual or SG data and only one entry per week per car. If you don't have FE instumentation then will just use what's in the gaslog for your previous % epa.

DRW · 03-13-2007, 10:36 AM

Why don't we see who wins according to the % improvement each team makes above the starting epa numbers? This way we don't need handicaps and can avoid the inaccuracies of computing a handicap. For example, Team 1 starts at 77.92% and improves to 85%, a 9% improvement. Team 2 starts at 68.05% and improves to 75%, a 10% improvement. Team 2 wins!

zpiloto · 03-13-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRW

Why don't we see who wins according to the % improvement each team makes above the starting epa numbers? This way we don't need handicaps and can avoid the inaccuracies of computing a handicap. For example, Team 1 starts at 77.92% and improves to 85%, a 9% improvement. Team 2 starts at 68.05% and improves to 75%, a 10% improvement. Team 2 wins!

I'm fine with that. Metro is that something you can work into the spread sheet?

MetroMPG · 03-13-2007, 11:44 AM

Sounds good to me, yup.

MetroMPG · 03-15-2007, 10:46 AM

I still haven't filled up yet. Does that mean I haven't officially started?

Do I have to bite the bullet and buy expensive gas, or can I wait until March break is over?

zpiloto · 03-15-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

I still haven't filled up yet. Does that mean I haven't officially started?

Do I have to bite the bullet and buy expensive gas, or can I wait until March break is over?

Is that a rhetorical question? Just need to fill by the 30 days for offical results. We'll use SG numbers until a fill is recorded and if no FE equipment we'll just use gaslog entry.

MetroMPG · 03-15-2007, 12:12 PM

No, not rhetorical. I guess the issue is:

- my tank avg was 61-ish according to the SG at the start of the competition (for purposes of determining team % over EPA)

- since the start of the competition, I've averaged (according to the SG) somewhere around 80-ish mpg.

- so if I wait another week or 2 to fill up, my actual gas receipt calculation will say be 62-ish, not 80-ish. It looks like I have to fill up now, so my warmer weather driving has a larger impact on % improvement, rather than being diluted in the current tank.

See what I mean?

zpiloto · 03-15-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

No, not rhetorical. I guess the issue is:

- my tank avg was 61-ish according to the SG at the start of the competition (for purposes of determining team % over EPA)

- since the start of the competition, I've averaged (according to the SG) somewhere around 80-ish mpg.

- so if I wait another week or 2 to fill up, my actual gas receipt calculation will say be 62-ish, not 80-ish. It looks like I have to fill up now, so my warmer weather driving has a larger impact on % improvement, rather than being diluted in the current tank.

See what I mean?

Yea. I see now. I guess you'll have to bite the bullet since that such a huge swing. And the offical results will be going on tank fills and not SG numbers. Bummer

big oil got you again.

Brock · 03-15-2007, 02:10 PM

Yup, I did the same thing and just filled Monday. Of course I switched to summer tires and thinner oil at the same tome so it can all be on one tank.

BeeUU · 03-15-2007, 02:18 PM

Yea, I filled up on Monday as well to sync up with the competition. Plus I had a crummy tank going anyway!!!

MetroMPG · 03-15-2007, 02:31 PM

OK. Next time I need to drive somewhere, I'll fill it up and be a slave to the oil companies too. I don't think I would have made it to the 28th anyway (the 4 month anniversary of my last fill-up).

BeeUU · 03-15-2007, 02:42 PM

That is awesome, four months. Most people brag when they make it a couple of weeks!!!

zpiloto · 03-15-2007, 09:49 PM

Metro

Team 1 now has a Offical name you can put on the scorecard: OPEC Busters!

The Toecutter · 03-16-2007, 10:21 AM

Doesn't the Laser have a .29 drag coefficient? That would explain its seemingly excellent FE while still having the performance it does.

rh77 · 03-16-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Toecutter

Doesn't the Laser have a .29 drag coefficient? That would explain its seemingly excellent FE while still having the performance it does.

ToeCutter, you need'nt forget that my Integra (0.33 Cd) generally peaks at 40-42 mpg at 100% Highway. The lowly 'Teg gets no props

Somehow I think there's more to it than drag.

RH77

DRW · 03-16-2007, 10:18 PM

Yep, there's more to it than just body drag. A stock Laser has a .29 drag coef. I've added a partial grill block in the form of a small front mounted intercooler, lowered the suspension about 1.25", installed a taller 5th gear, added a free flowing intake and exhaust, partial underbody panels, and tweaked the ecu almost beyond recognition.

Oh yeah, I drive well, too. Lately I've been getting tips from my refrigerator.

The Toecutter · 03-17-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

ToeCutter, you need'nt forget that my Integra (0.33 Cd) generally peaks at 40-42 mpg at 100% Highway. The lowly 'Teg gets no props Somehow I think there's more to it than drag.

This doesn't surprise me, actually. But vehicle speed and engine operating point is a very important factor in this along with Cd.

Unlike your car, the Laser seems to be getting that mpg combined, not just as a highway peak. I'm sure the owner could clarify though.

DRW · 03-18-2007, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by The Toecutter: "the Laser seems to be getting that mpg combined, not just as a highway peak. I'm sure the owner could clarify though."

My driving is roughly 85-90% freeway. Like a good gassaver, I try to avoid using my car for short trips, I'll walk or bike instead. If I need to use it to run errands I'll try to combine them in the same run.

Oops! I'm giving away my secrets to the other team!

:

BeeUU · 03-19-2007, 08:48 AM

I dont know about you guys, but I find if I idle for about 10 minets before I drive in the morning my mileage is great!!

zpiloto · 03-19-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeeUU

I dont know about you guys, but I find if I idle for about 10 minets before I drive in the morning my mileage is great!!

Yea. I also found out today that dragging you rear belly tray creates a vaccum underneath the car and dramaticly increases FE. Feel free to use this secret too

landspeed · 03-19-2007, 12:56 PM

Fit a roof box on the car - it improves the airflow and keep all the air attached flowing over the roof. It also increases lift without drag, thereby decreasing the rolling resistance!. The lift only works if you drive at 70mph though. Do this and your FE will go through the roof

Brock · 03-19-2007, 07:57 PM

I have found leaving the parking brake on during the first few miles warms up the engine faster, of course the sooner to a warm engine the better mileage after that

MetroMPG · 03-19-2007, 08:12 PM

These techniques are great! Thanks for sharing, everyone.

I'll offer this (previously secret) tactic for city driving that you might like to try: look well ahead in traffic and watch for red lights and other conditions that may require you to stop. When you spot such a condition, accelerate towards it at WOT (to reduce pumping losses) and brake to a stop at the last minute - then immediately switch off the engine. This approach helps to maximize engine-off time when stopped, which we all know contributes to improved FE.

landspeed · 03-20-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

These techniques are great! Thanks for sharing, everyone.

I'll offer this (previously secret) tactic for city driving that you might like to try: look well ahead in traffic and watch for red lights and other conditions that may require you to stop. When you spot such a condition, accelerate towards it at WOT (to reduce pumping losses) and brake to a stop at the last minute - then immediately switch off the engine. This approach helps to maximize engine-off time when stopped, which we all know contributes to improved FE.

I tend to roll towards the lights with the engine off, and bump-start if they change (or are going to change). This means I avoid a crank-start, have the engine off while approaching, and have some kinetic energy going through the lights.

However this mainly works as I live in Scotland, in a place that isn't too busy, and I know the traffic lights having lived here for a few years!

Edit - just read the previous posts.

Now I remember why you were giving out the secret advice

omgwtfbyobbq · 03-20-2007, 01:16 PM

Many Simpsons fans would appreciate the use of speed holes in the hood, and I feel they work well for underbody flow too, in the gas tank.