New Transmission Fluid

[shatto]

$9.75 retail.

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic Low-Viscosity Automatic Transmission Fluid
is recommended for automatic transmissions and other applications requiring DEXRON? VI, MERCON? LV, SP or Toyota WS.

AMSOIL Synthetic Low-Viscosity Automatic Transmission Fluid is backward compatible and replaces DEXRON? III fluids in older GM automatic transmissions. (DEXRON? VI specification supersedes the obsolete DEXRON? III in GM vehicles.)

*Not for use with CVT or Ford Type F applications

SERVICE LIFE

Recommendation for cars and light duty trucks

Specification
*Normal Service* ---------------------------- *Severe Service*
DEXRON? VI
100,000 miles (160,000 km) ------------- 50,000 miles (80,000 km)
MERCON? LV, SP
Follow vehicle manufacturer's recommendations
Toyota WS
100,000 miles (160,000 km)--------------- 60,000 miles (96,000 km)

[bowtieguy]

thanks for the heads up! my wife's car is due for tranny service. i got a 5 speed, sorry.

[bowtieguy]

i wonder if some of you guys that promote extended intervals would weigh in. would you go 100k miles before changing your ATF?

[Jay2TheRescue]

ABSOLUTELY NOT! I don't care what the manuals say, I have my transmissions flushed at 2 years/50,000 miles. Fluid is cheap, transmissions are expensive.

-Jay

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy

i wonder if some of you guys that promote extended intervals would weigh in. would you go 100k miles before changing your ATF?

Transmissions are weird. If it already has 100,000 miles and has never been serviced, it is said that you should probably leave it alone rather than disturb it. If it's been regularly maintained then you should continue to do so, and I'd recommend intervals no longer than 50,000. I've never had a transmission fail, so I guess my stategies work well enough for me.

I remain skeptical about miracle engine oils like Amsoil whose users claim to never need to change, or who claim 100,000 mile intervals, etc; I haven't even begun to wonder about similar transmission oil claims.

[Mr Incredible]

Daughter (Navy) and SIL (Marine) were traveling from SC to CA for a PCS move last week. I ensured SIL's 2003 S10 4cyl was properly serviced while here at the 1/2 way point. The trans fluid hadn't been changed (that SIL was aware of, and he's had it for a year or two) in 93k miles. The fluid was black and very stinky. We did the fluid/filter change as part of the maintenance. They got to CA w/out any failures so I guess it's good to go. I thought about the doom/gloom scenario but figured it was more important to get it changed than have a guarenteed failure at some point. Since Daughter will be driving the S10 until at least December in CA heat, maintenance trumps "conventional wisdom" in my mind. I insisted that they be nice to the tranny for at least the first couple of hundred miles for all the parts/pieces to get to know each other in a clean environment.

I won't even mention that the oil filter was two oil changes old, the oil was beyond filthy (and of unknown mileage), the coolant was four inches down the fins inside, the power steering fluid trashed, all four tires underinflated, and the steel cords showing through the driver side front tire. Now SIL knows what a true maintenace stop looks like. I hope it made an impression.

I vote for regular maintenance and won't be trying extended interval fluids.

[bobc455]

Low viscosity? Why would I want low viscosity? Seems like I would increase torque converter slippage. (I guess that would be fine for automatics with lockup converters, however)

Besides, 12 quarts at $10/quart seems kinda steep.

I'll stick with regular brand...

And for anyone that asks, I like to do a drain & fill about 50k miles. It only changes about 1/3 to 1/2 of the fluid, but it's better than nothing (and I can do it myself without a fancy-schmancy machine). And it keeps kinda-fresh additives in there, which will keep those nasty varnishes from building up.

-Bob C.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by bobc455

And for anyone that asks, I like to do a drain & fill about 50k miles. It only changes about 1/3 to 1/2 of the fluid, but it's better than nothing (and I can do it myself without a fancy-schmancy machine).

What about the shadetree full-flush procedure where you disconnect a hose and run the car with the hose sucking in new fluid, letting the transmission's own pump do the work?

[bowtieguy]

isn't much or most tranny wear the result of heat?
it has been said that amsoil drops the operating temp of the fluid by 75*F

if this is true, it is well worth $10/qt.

just thinking out loud.

[theholycow]

Heat is the biggest enemy, indeed.

There is no way I'll ever believe that Amsoil drops my tranny's temperature by 75 degrees. Even if you gave me Amsoil ATF for free and I measured the difference I'd worry that it's just the fluid not absorbing the heat, leaving the heat in the transmission parts instead.

Sometimes the burden of proof for this skeptic is extreme, and I don't apologize for it.

At the $10/qt price, you could easily buy a major heavy-duty transmission cooler AND a complete load of normal ATF...and that combination is unarguably effective for reducing temperature.

[bowtieguy]

well, to each his own.

my mechanic told a story once about an auto tranny that was run on amsoil for ~250,000 miles. anyway, just for kicks(he does this kind of thing), it was pulled and opened it up.

he expected to find very little wear in the metal parts, but he also found that the seals and bands looked as tho they just came from the factory!

not verifiable, but i'd believe the word of some over the claimed facts of others.

[bowtieguy]

BTW, got a question...

my wife's AT is leaking fluid. it is coming from around the pan, as little as it is. i tried tightening the pan bolts to no avail. anyway, it shifts fine, so could this be a pump gasket leak?

i got a quote for pulling the tranny, replace gasket, and refill w/ said amsoil for $760.50. so...

could this be my problem? and should i have this done(sooner rather than later)?

[theholycow]

I'm no expert but it sounds like the pan gasket is the leaky one.

[Jay2TheRescue]

Yeah, if you're willing to do the work yourself, a pan gasket and some ATF shouldn't be that expensive.

[shatto]

Bobc455,
You want low viscosity transmission fluid because that is what the Toyota engineers specify. That is what Toyota WS transmission fluid is. Low viscosity.

Pretty sure because I only glanced....A New Porsche Cayenne S at Costco. Transmission from Japan. Go to a dealer and look for yourself.
Why not? Toyota diesel engines are in American pickups. Not Tundra for some weird reason.
The point is that Japan seems to be the pre-eminent transmission builder at this time. Everything in my Tundra is made in North America, but the tranny is from Nippon.



Engine and transmission oil and extended drain times:

1. I won't make too much effort to figure out how to post my lab results for the simple reason that the skeptics won't accept it anyway.

2. Changing the full flow filter at the recommended times and using by-pass filtration, which cleans down to one micron, allows for long change times for these reasons;
a) the filtered oil is analytically clean.
b) changing the spin-on and adding oil to top off brings the additive package of the oil up to specifications.
c) we always use oil analysis and base changes on the report.


Transmission tear-down story.
My wife's 1988 Honda Prelude SI with 4-wheel steering and an automatic transmission got to where it was a 2-speed. First then fourth.
The clutches were down to the metal...all four gears. After only 35,000 miles. Using Honda ATF.
I insisted the shop install Amsoil ATF and now the car has gone about 135,000 miles and the lab report says the Amsoil is fine for continued use.


Here's a thought;
Before tossing out your Mobil 1 or whatever motor oil you use, at 5,000 miles......
send a sample for oil analysis. If it is okay.....let us know.

[shatto]

Bowtieguy,

Iffin you can tighten the bolts, you can get dirty and replace the gasket and fluid.
1 beer job.
Replace the transmission filter when you have the pan off.
Simplest is to clean the pan really well, use brake cleaner to finish and disinfect the gasket seat, then use the tube Black gasket maker and make your own.
Be sure to encircle the bolt holes.
install the pan with the bolts finger tight then let it sit for the specified time for the gasket to stiffen a bit then tighten er up, but not too much.

When you refill the trannie...remember that you have only replaced half the fluid as the rest is in the torque converter, and be very sure to measure the level the way the manual says to, so you don't get a bum reading.

Do the above and you won't be 'that guy' in the STP commercials.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by shatto

Toyota diesel engines are in American pickups.

Which American pickup has a Toyota diesel engine?

[Jay2TheRescue]

I'm quite sure the Chevy/GMC Duramax is a Mitsubishi...

[theholycow]

Duramax is GM-Isuzu, not GM-Toyota and always has been, AFAIK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Duramax_engine doesn't mention any plans by GM to partner with Toyota on it.

[shatto]

Duramax
Made by Hino, truck division of Toyota.

NOT!

I checked, and the Duramax is a joint venture between Isuzu and GM.

I always presumed Toyota made diesels for small trucks for the overseas market. They probably do but google is set up to edit searches to the locale of the question, so we get North American links first. When I lived in Africa, in the 60's, diesel Jeeps were available, just like Land Rovers, but they didn't sell many, probably because you could always find used parts for the gas models.
Oh, well. There is this:
http://rav4world.com/index/diesel.html
http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6543...med/index.html
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/11...ybrid-in-2010/

[theholycow]

Toyota diesel engines in Toyota vehicles is no surprise. I wish they'd sell them here.

[bowtieguy]

Originally Posted by theholycow

I'm no expert but it sounds like the pan gasket is the leaky one.

nope. definately not the pan.

[kamesama980]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy

BTW, got a question...

my wife's AT is leaking fluid. it is coming from around the pan, as little as it is. i tried tightening the pan bolts to no avail. anyway, it shifts fine, so could this be a pump gasket leak?

i got a quote for pulling the tranny, replace gasket, and refill w/ said amsoil for $760.50. so...

could this be my problem? and should i have this done(sooner rather than later)?

BIG mistake. pan bolts usually go to a seemingly crazy low torque... use it though. in thin sheet metal pans and covers, 90% of leaks are caused by overtightening the bolts. if it's leaking, drop the pan, get a new gasket, and put it all back together with a torque wrench to the RIGHT torque.

Originally Posted by bowtieguy

nope. definately not the pan.

sure? how can you tell? my $.02 is to clean it all well, drive it like normal, and check every day. look for dribbles and trails of fluid above the pan. if there are none, it's the pan.

[bowtieguy]

thanks, i'll try that.

[Mr Incredible]

I've always used a gasket sealer on trans pans and have not had leaks afterwards. I use wax & grease remover solvent after I do an extreme clean of the bits of gasket left behind. I usually wind up running over the pan with a wire wheel on my 4.5 inch grinder.

I put gasket sealer on both sides of the gasket, the pan, and the trans. I've found over several vehicles that the bolt torque is usually around 10lbs. I did Daughter's car by hand and it leaked like a seive. I did a re-clean, re-seal, and re-install at 10lbs and all was well.

The gasket sealer I use is from Permatex, comes in a small plastic bottle, and has a brush in the cap.

[XRinger]

If I used anything but Mercon LV in my new 2009 Escape, I'm pretty sure
that my Ford warranty would be in jeopardy.

And of course, this stuff is suppose to last forever..

[shatto]

Taint So!

Any manufacturers ATF that meets or exceeds specifications will not void the manufacturers warranty...by law.

[XRinger]

The manual says using unapproved ATF can cause damage.
But, if Ford did Approve an alternate brand, I might try it
if the cost was lower.

[shatto]

Warranties
and the
Magnuson-Moss Act


If you are interested in using AMSOIL motor oil, but concerned that using a synthetic oil or extending your oil drain interval will void his warranty, you have no need for concern. Congress in 1975 enacted the federal Magnuson-Moss Act to regulate written consumer product warranties. An examination of the law reveals warranties remain intact when AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants are used.

The law was meant to give consumers detailed information about warranty coverage before they buy.

Congress charged the Federal Trade Commission with creation of the specifics of the law.

The FTC set down three rules under the Act: the Disclosure Rule, the Pre-Sale Availability Rule and the Dispute Resolution Rule.

Those rules require warrantors to title their written warranty as either full or limited, provide a single, clear and easy-to-read document that spells out certain information about coverage and ensure that warranties are available where the products are sold so that consumers can read them before buying.

In passing the Act, Congress meant to give consumers access to warranty information, let consumers comparison shop for warranties, encourage warranty competition and promote timely and complete performance of warranty obligations.

While the Magnuson-Moss Act does not require manufacturers to provide a written warranty, it provides specific rules when one is provided. Among those provisions, FTC regulations state: (c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. (15 U.S.C.2302(C))

That means your warranty stands when you use AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants.

Vehicle manufacturers recommend lubricants according to their viscosity grade and service classification. Any oil, whether its conventional petroleum motor oil or synthetic, meeting the correct viscosity grade, 5W-30 for example, and the current API and ILSAC North American service classifications may be used without affecting warranty coverage. AMSOIL motor oils are recommended for use in applications requiring these specifications.

Furthermore, the practice of extending oil drain intervals does not void warranties. Original equipment manufacturers pay or deny warranty claims based on the findings of failure analysis. To affect the vehicle warranty, the lubricant must be directly responsible for the failure. If the oil didn't cause the problem the warranty cannot be voided, regardless of brand or length of time in use.

Synthetic motor oil was introduced to the automotive public in 1972 by AMSOIL, INC., with the world's first API rated synthetic motor oil specially formulated for long service and superior performance and protection to that of conventional oils.

Nearly 30 years ago, AMSOIL synthetics represented a vision of the future and technology ahead of their time. Since then, every major engine oil manufacturer has introduced synthetic oils of their own. To be sure, many original equipment manufacturers would like you to believe you can only use their products. However, it's a violation of the consumer protections set forth in the Magnuson-Moss Act, unless they're willing to provide you those products free of charge.

AMSOIL offers a warranty that covers the cost of repair or replacement of a proven mechanically sound engine damaged as a result of using AMSOIL synthetic motor oil. However, it has never happened. Thirty years of experience proves AMSOIL can be installed in any vehicle with complete confidence.

AMSOIL further backs its products with action when a Dealer or customer reports being told their warranty is voided if they use synthetics.

If you have heard from any member of a business that the use of AMSOIL Motor Oil or the practice of extending drain intervals will void warranties, send AMSOIL all the details including the name of the business, business owner or manager and the individual making the claims, in a signed and dated letter. Send the letter to the Technical Services Department at corporate headquarters and an AMSOIL representative will send them a letter explaining the facts.

Access to the complete Magnuson-Moss Act is available on the Internet by key words Magnuson-Moss Act or Federal Trade Commission.