Fuel additive experiments....

[ZugyNA]

These are some promising fuel additive mixes I want to eventually test myself.

Hoping that people with Scangauges or in car mpg readouts could try these on a test course or on regular drives to work, etc.

You test 'em...I'll use 'em!

Info is posted mostly in it's entirety as found here and there....use some common sense with these...I haven't tested any of them...but won't be afraid to when the time comes.


"In gas motor vehicles, I use 3 oz acetone, 1 oz white gas, 1/4 oz
Torco GP7, and a drop or two of Energy Release.

The best improvments are at hiway speeds and driveability."

white gas = Coleman's fuel for the most part.


For turbos:

"No I'm not selling this...but it does work.

1 quart xylene or xylol (octane boost)
6 oz Amsoil PI (cleaning, UCL)
1 oz Amsoil Gas Fuel Stabilizer
1/2 oz 100:1 2-cycle oil (UCL)

Mix in one gallon metal gas can. Pour in 1/2 full tank, and bounce car. My turbo with K-jet returns unused fuel to the tank so it mixes well.

Holy batman - full boost, not one ping.

Many of the off the shelf octane boosters contain toulene and/or xylene.
Straight, sure it's not the best thing for elastomers. That's why it's mixed
with the other stuff and the gas in the tank. Some web formulations call for a
gallon!

Xylene is used for thinning some enamel type paints, but regular new style paint thinners don't contain too much xylene"


"Think I stumbled across a combo that might help your winter mileage.

3 ounces of acetone
2 1/2 ounces of Xylene
1 ounce of Ethos FR $15.95 qt ..... $15.95 / 16 = $1.00 per 10 G

(Ethos FR costs around $.62 per 10 G if bought by the gallon)

Add this to every ten gallons of gasoline and try it out. You might have to adjust the acetone to what you were getting your best gas mileage with when you were using acetone. In my case three ounces did it for me.

Just started using this and mileage went to 21.5 on my F150. The best I could get in winter without anything was 19.0. The best in summer so far with acetone alone was 21."


"Another thing that was not mentioned when I related the Colemans
info. The fellow that told me about it was using it at a ratio of 1
oz per gallon of reg. gas. (10 oz per 10 gallons)

Some background: His cavalier quit. He was forced to use the wifes
larger Olds v8 350 for the weekly commute from Ill. to Oh. He
claimed to be able to maintain simular hi-way mileage with the Olds
by using Colemans. He regrets not being able to obtain Plain White Gas any longer, even in his job."

1994 Buick Roadmaster 5.7 L 17/25

1988 Chevy Cavelier 2.0 L 4 25/32 28% gain?

1992 Chevy Cavelier 2.2 L 4 25/36 44% gain?


"I've been using acetone for over a year and it has worked extremely well but that's not all I use.

Here's my "fuel helper" recipe. The amounts are based on 10 gallons of gasoline.

3.0 oz. acetone
3.0 oz. Coleman fuel
1.0 oz. Ethos FR
0.5 oz. Torco GP-7
0.6 oz. PRI-G"


"about a month ago i noticed that i had a few litres of mineral spirit kicking around.
So i added 500mls to my 11gal tank in my 2000 civic.

500 ml = 16.9 oz per 11 gallons

when i add 500mls or more, that tank of gas gets me better gas milege <8-12mpg>...., and when i dont use it i see a drop ?

I do the same routes every week, and i am always a very conservative driver.

i have also noted that the civic starts up faster in the morning. and the engine feels more responsive."

[SVOboy]

Jangeo has gone off acetone and stated no change using his scangauge, and dan said that ethosfr didn't do anything, and that's all the scangauge/mid data that I know of.

[zpiloto]

What kind of increases have you seen with the acetone. I had no luck with acetone with 1, 2, 3 oz per 10 gal. I've been thinking alot about additives and my knowlege is very limited. But the fuel efficiency loss due to combustion (from what I've read) is only 2-3% in the mordern EFI engine. Coleman fuel according to the MSDS(?) is regular gas(without additives), Xylene and Toulene. This just raises octane. To increase fuel mileage I think you need to be able to extract more BTU's and not just increase octane unless your car is knocking.

I'm not giving up on additives yet but I have not found one that works yet. The increase in FE has to offset the cost and ease of mixing. Testing is just so hard with additive also because of all the condition encountered during the loaded tank.

[SVOboy]

I also had no luck with acetone but I didn't have the superMID for the tanks I tried it (I axtually had lower mileage on those tanks).

[zpiloto]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

I also had no luck with acetone but I didn't have the superMID for the tanks I tried it (I axtually had lower mileage on those tanks).

Did you get the super MID dialed in before the valve gave up the ghost?

[SVOboy]

The valve that gave up the ghost is on the engine I was putting in, not the one in the car,

I'm getting another head and I'll swap valves though, so all will be well in the end.

[maxc]

Originally Posted by zpiloto

What kind of increases have you seen with the acetone. I had no luck with acetone with 1, 2, 3 oz per 10 gal. I've been thinking alot about additives and my knowlege is very limited. But the fuel efficiency loss due to combustion (from what I've read) is only 2-3% in the mordern EFI engine. Coleman fuel according to the MSDS(?) is regular gas(without additives), Xylene and Toulene. This just raises octane. To increase fuel mileage I think you need to be able to extract more BTU's and not just increase octane unless your car is knocking.

I'm not giving up on additives yet but I have not found one that works yet. The increase in FE has to offset the cost and ease of mixing. Testing is just so hard with additive also because of all the condition encountered during the loaded tank.

True. Alot of us can't advance are spark timing without going to extreme measures. That will make the differance.

[krousdb]

I have done A-B-A testing with acetone and with Ethos. No change in FE.

[JanGeo]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Jangeo has gone off acetone and stated no change using his scangauge, and dan said that ethosfr didn't do anything, and that's all the scangauge/mid data that I know of.

Well not completely true - there appears to be less really high reading on the MPG without the acetone although some is still in the tank from the 3 gallons that still had some in it. Mileage is lower for this tank average however I have been using the AC a lot more now which brings it down - looks like it is good for an additional .1gph (0.1-0.2gph idle AC off - 0.3gph AC On) I will be putting it back in maybe before the end of this tank. Tank average is about 42mpg so far mostly highway and more bad traffic on the low speed routes than usual when I usually get the really high 45-50mpg runs.

[ZugyNA]

Originally Posted by zpiloto

What kind of increases have you seen with the acetone.

I'm not giving up on additives yet but I have not found one that works yet. The increase in FE has to offset the cost and ease of mixing. Testing is just so hard with additive also because of all the condition encountered during the loaded tank.

I've been using acetone and a few other things for about 2 yrs now. As far as what gains I've seen...I'm not really sure....since I've made other changes over this period of time.

With one car I've managed to go from a 21 mpg avg to around 28 mpg...in summer and including easier driving.

I do think SOME additives help...but this depends on the car involved...make...EFI or carbed...etc. Also it might take 2-3 tanks to see a change due to cleaning effects and needed ECU adjustments.

I use this page as evidence that acetone works...for some vehicles:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directo..._Fuel_Additive

Some of the "testing" is so-so...some is believable.

I do understand the idea of cost effectiveness. I usually calculate out the cost per each 10 gallons to use an additive. Anything much over $1.00 per 10 gallons would have to show some really good gains.

Generally, 3 oz per 10 gallons of acetone costs about the same as 10 oz per 10 gallons of Coleman's....around $.30-$35.

Most of the commercial fuel additives seem to cost from about $1.00 per 10 gallons on up.

I have a lot of ideas for mixes I want to test....but it takes time.

I currently use 2.5 oz acetone...1 oz Coleman's...0.25 oz Torco GP7 per 10 gallons. Staying consistant with this due to other testing.

[JanGeo]

I have to wonder about the Coleman fuel as it is really just refined gasoline and if the cost is higher than its gain it is not worth it. I figure that the Acetone I purchased on a sale comes out to about $0.25 for 3 oz per 10 gallons and if I get a gain of 1% it pays to use it - I think I get better than that in gains. The 2.5cc Torco is about $0.25 also as I got 500cc/1 Pint for $5.00

[ZugyNA]

Some new info:


http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/additive.htm

http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/approach.htm

"Acetone is not the only additive to boost your mileage. Xylene (xylol) and neohexane do the same thing. There are three variations of xylene that depend on how the pair of methyl ions in the benzene ring are distributed. These are the meta, the ortho and the para molecules of xylene. A doctorate student and friends at Clemson University in South Carolina are checking the mileage boost from the four types of xylene. Xylol (the fourth type) is the mix of the first three. So far they have verified that acetone yields 3 or 4 MPG and that o-xylene yields another 3-4 MPG."

"We prefer 2-3 oz. acetone per ten US gallons in gasoline and 2 oz. per ten US gallons in diesel fuel. We place this amount in our cars and suggest friends use the same amount for every tankful.

It has been reported that we only add acetone every other tankful. That was for test purposes only. We normally do the acetone every tankful.

We have a pyrex measuring bowl for all the ingredients to mix before pouring it into the tank. The mix should include a tiny amount of xylene (XYLOL) which is between 2 and 6 oz. per 10 gallons of gasoline. Am currently using 3-4 oz. of xylene per 10 gal. of gas."

"FANTASTIC MPG. The use of XYLENE (or XYLOL) revisited. Long ago I tried xylene off and on for many years without a firm conclusion. There are three types of xylene. Each structure depends on the positioning of the two methyl ions which form the meta, ortho and para. The mix of all three forms is called xylol. But with careful testing recently, we found a frustrating variation in MPG when xylene is used with acetone. We came to doubt the quality of the acetone we bought and found the best place to buy pure acetone is a beauty supply store.

We still use the normal 2-3 oz. acetone (technical grade) per 10 gallons but we add a few oz. of xylene into the gasoline per 10 gallons. The final amount is between 4 and 10 oz. per 10 gal.

We are getting help from a Clemson University student testing the three forms of xylene separately. Thus far ortho looks the best. Do not use xylene in diesel fuel--not yet. Let us try it first. Acetone works wonders in diesel at the rate of 2 oz. per 10 gallons. My 95 Neon has delivered up to 62 MPG with this slow burning fuel combination. That is correct. These additives do not directly enter into combustion but survive combustion to break up fuel fragments halfway down the power stroke. We will let you know very soon what mix works best. My 95 Mazda pickup (same as a Ranger) has reached 33 MPG with this combination. My 96 Olds has achieved 29. A 91 Toyota made it to 43 MPG. Both acetone and xylene are coal tar derivatives.?


NEW MIX? ...per 10 gallons:

2.5 oz acetone

3 oz xylene

.25 oz GP7


IMO...A-B-A testing probably doesn't work so well with fuel additive testing.


Best bet?

* find a test course...ideally a square 10 miles to the side...this factors out wind direction and altitude change. Ambient temps would need to be recorded and kept close to the same for all tests. Also humidity levels.

* establish a baseline with no additive...using a particular gas

* do the same test with the additive...but after using it in regular driving for at least a fuel tank...same gas

Requires a Scangauge.......or do the same testing using a regular test route using full tank refills...

[ZugyNA]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

I have to wonder about the Coleman fuel as it is really just refined gasoline and if the cost is higher than its gain it is not worth it.

Coleman's and a generic version of it can be found at Walmart for $3-4 per gallon. I intend to test the 10 oz per 10 gallon rate at some point.

[95metro]

I have to throw my pessimitic perception into the fray. This article:

http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/additive.htm

Had a few things I'd like to point out.

We prefer 2-3 oz. acetone per ten US gallons in gasoline and 2 oz. per ten US gallons in diesel fuel.

Acetone in diesel would be bad since it acts as octane, thus increasing the pre-ignition temperature of the fuel. At 2 oz. per 10 gal it would be minimal difference, but diesel is supposed to pre-ignite so adding "knock-ihibitor" to it would not be a good idea.

For example in recent weeks I stopped using acetone in my Neon. At a steady 50 MPH, my MPG delivered 48-52 per my ScanGauge averages. That was the maximum with acetone. Then the next four fills at half empty gradually came down to 43-44, 37-38, 33--34 and 30-31. The last is slightly higher than what the car delivered originally or 27-29. Same gas. The trouble with consistent mileage tests is the cold weather.

This guy supposedly does a "test" by not using acetone for a few tanks (but there would have been acetone still in the last half of his tank at decreasing levels of concentration), but seems to consider his results as conclusive even though he admits that the weather was getting colder. Unfortunately he didn't specify how cold, but temperature is a MAJOR contributor to FE (my Metro's last tank was 50 mpg in spring/summer weather. My worst tank was 33 mpg in freezing winter weather).

He has no baseline to quantify if the acetone really works or not.

EDIT: Plus, look at the mixture ratios: 2-3 ounces per 10 gallons. Those are ratios of 1:640 (2 ounces acetone to 10 gallons gas) and 1:427 (3 ounces acetone to 10 gallons gas). In percentages we are talking 0.15625% and 0.23419% respectively.

Is acetone really so powerful at levels under 1% that people can truly claim benefits up to 35% increase in FE?

I don't think so, but that's just my pessimistic opinion.

[cheapybob]

My current tank I added

3 oz acetone
1 oz gp-7
2 oz fuel system cleaner

Mixed it with 2 gal gas, then added the 2 gal to the tank and bounced the car.

Anyway, I did a 60 mph test run and saw no improvement in scangage mpg. I did notice my spark is advanced to 39 max instead of 37 or 38, so I might be doing a bit better as a result.

[ZugyNA]

Just for kicks...try this mix?

1 quart xylene or xylol (octane boost)
6 oz Amsoil PI (cleaning, UCL)
1 oz Amsoil Gas Fuel Stabilizer
1/2 oz 100:1 2-cycle oil (UCL)

Mix in one gallon metal gas can. Pour in 1/2 full tank, and bounce car. My turbo with K-jet returns unused fuel to the tank so it mixes well.

See what your timing does?

Or try a tank of premium?

[cheapybob]

Originally Posted by ZugyNA

Just for kicks...try this mix?

1 quart xylene or xylol (octane boost)
6 oz Amsoil PI (cleaning, UCL)
1 oz Amsoil Gas Fuel Stabilizer
1/2 oz 100:1 2-cycle oil (UCL)

Mix in one gallon metal gas can. Pour in 1/2 full tank, and bounce car. My turbo with K-jet returns unused fuel to the tank so it mixes well.

See what your timing does?

Or try a tank of premium?

A quart of xylene alone would cost $5.00, let alone the other stuff, so I can't imagine that it would be possible to get a sufficient fuel economy increase to pay for that. My car is about 9.5 to 1 compression and designed to run on 87. My intake air is getting too hot, and that's when it was retarding. At some point here I'll cobble up some method to limit the temperature to 180 or 190f.

[ZugyNA]

Make a spacer to pull the intake back from the exhaust some?

[maxc]

Originally Posted by cheapybob

A quart of xylene alone would cost $5.00, let alone the other stuff, so I can't imagine that it would be possible to get a sufficient fuel economy increase to pay for that. My car is about 9.5 to 1 compression and designed to run on 87. My intake air is getting too hot, and that's when it was retarding. At some point here I'll cobble up some method to limit the temperature to 180 or 190f.

Run the intake air past a seperate heater core too keep it 190F?

[cheapybob]

I'd thought of directing the intake to the back of the rad, but that would mean 10 min to get warm in the winter. The MPG improvement in te winter from the setup was dramatic, so I'd hate to lose it.

I'm leaning towards some sort of setup that uses a bimetallic from a thermostat to trigger a vacum valve that controls a butterfly opening in a second intake tube letting in cold air, and having a second way to open it off the cam that the throttle cable uses to allow it to also open anytime I push the accelerator down hard.

[zpiloto]

Originally Posted by ZugyNA

Coleman's and a generic version of it can be found at Walmart for $3-4 per gallon. I intend to test the 10 oz per 10 gallon rate at some point.

I've tried this ratio in my lawn mower with a 13% increase . Then put it in my car with no real gain. Also as a blind test I put it in my wife commuter without telling her and saw no gain. I think with ECU's and knock sensors these additives just won't work on the newer cars. Your mileage may very.

[brick]

Originally Posted by cheapybob

I'm leaning towards some sort of setup that uses a bimetallic from a thermostat to trigger a vacum valve that controls a butterfly opening in a second intake tube letting in cold air, and having a second way to open it off the cam that the throttle cable uses to allow it to also open anytime I push the accelerator down hard.

Just get an airbox out of a 4-cyl naturally apsirated Volvo from the mid 80s-early 90s. That airbox (at least the one in my 740) breathes from two intake paths (one to fresh air, one to the exhaust manifold) and is thermostatically controlled via a very simple flapper valve setup. You may need to replace the thermostat itself, but they are cheap from the right source. The only problem is that I don't know what the target temperature is.

[ZugyNA]

Originally Posted by zpiloto

I've tried this ratio in my lawn mower with a 13% increase . Then put it in my car with no real gain. Also as a blind test I put it in my wife commuter without telling her and saw no gain. I think with ECU's and knock sensors these additives just won't work on the newer cars. Your mileage may very.

Sounds like Coleman's at 10 oz per 10 G might be good for carbed engines? Maybe earlier EFI?

The guy that "found" this supposedly used it in an EFI....

[JanGeo]

The last fillup I put 3oz Acetone in with the 10.9 gallons but no Torco and I have not seen the SGII show the really low fuel rate burn of 0.1 GPH any more only 0.2-0.3 GPH. Torco is going back in at the next fillup.

[cheapybob]

Originally Posted by brick

Just get an airbox out of a 4-cyl naturally apsirated Volvo from the mid 80s-early 90s. That airbox (at least the one in my 740) breathes from two intake paths (one to fresh air, one to the exhaust manifold) and is thermostatically controlled via a very simple flapper valve setup. You may need to replace the thermostat itself, but they are cheap from the right source. The only problem is that I don't know what the target temperature is.

I'll go to the yard and look for one, thanks

[ZugyNA]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

The last fillup I put 3oz Acetone in with the 10.9 gallons but no Torco and I have not seen the SGII show the really low fuel rate burn of 0.1 GPH any more only 0.2-0.3 GPH. Torco is going back in at the next fillup.

You'd be one of few to talk about a verified gain using Torco oil....except LaPointe

Are you using the GP7 (synth 2 cycle)...at .25 oz per 10 G?

This is the rate I use it at.

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

The last fillup I put 3oz Acetone in with the 10.9 gallons but no Torco and I have not seen the SGII show the really low fuel rate burn of 0.1 GPH any more only 0.2-0.3 GPH. Torco is going back in at the next fillup.

From 2-3 GPH to 1 GPH with Torco additive. So are you telling me that Torco will double or triple your FE? If your previous tanks were in the 40's with Torco, then you should be getting 15-20 MPG on this tank.

Ouch!

[zpiloto]

I wouldn't call this an experiment because I don't know how you can do a good test with additives. I've tried a mixture of 1oz acetone/2oz kerosene(mineral oil)/ 7oz coleman in more than 10 gallons of fuel.

On my daily driver there was no decrease in FE over this tank which had no EOC because of transmission complaints. On my wife car there was a 10% increase on the Odyssey with the mixture. 3 tanks before average 20.6 MPG. With the additives 3 tanks at 22.6 MPG then 2 clearing tanks on the highway on a trip we took and then one tank of normal driving without the mix coming in at 20.7 MPG. She did not know the mixture was in the tank.
Don't know what effect it will have on O2 sensors and such so try at your own risk. Your mileage may very

[JanGeo]

NO NO idle fuel rate is 0.1gph to 0.2gph no AC and 0.3 gph AC on and yet when the rate drops to 0.1gph the scangauge really shows 200-300mpg coasting instead of 100-150mpg but for some reason the idle will not come down while the xB is moving.

Torco GP-7 synthetic 2 stroke is what I am using purple in color and it tends to take a while to start showing an MPG increase - it helps lubricate the top end and the fuel system components and stays in the fuel system for several tanks after discontinued use. From what I have heard from my brother and the 2 stroke bikes that use it - it will not harm anything and probably helps. The synthetic lube in it does not burn from what he says in the two stroke bike and ends up in the exhost systems dripping out. Use small quanties 2.5cc per 10 gallons is the recommended amount.

[diamondlarry]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

NO NO idle fuel rate is 0.1gph to 0.2gph no AC and 0.3 gph AC on and yet when the rate drops to 0.1gph the scangauge really shows 200-300mpg coasting instead of 100-150mpg but for some reason the idle will not come down while the xB is moving.

My Saturn does/did the same thing. It stays at about 1500 rpm until I get completely stopped. It then drops to 550.