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09-04-2005, 11:43 AM
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#1
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Low Rolling Resistance Tires
They are something lovely for our cars besides the standby of just overfilling our tires. Right now mine are 3 psi over, I'll be going up to 6 psi over to test and see if I lose anything cornering though (I took a hard corner with my friend and freaked some old lady in her minivan out, ^_^). But LRRs are a better way of getting the same benefits of overinflation.
Check out this (puke) PDF for some pretty fly information on the stuff and what kinda tires to look for, and which not to look for:
http://www.greenseal.org/recommendations/CGR_tire_rollingresistance.pdf
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09-04-2005, 01:18 PM
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#2
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What?
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Madison, Wi
Posts: 55
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Suggestions needed
yeah, the tires are a big deal. i have ziex 510's in the front of my civic (terrible tires, don't buy them) and their sidewalls are so flimsy that i pump them up to like 45 psi or sometimes higher and they actually are still soft (it says max inflation pressure of 50 if i remember right). my rear tires i'll bump up to 40. i notice a big difference in gas milege, i figured it out one time, but i don't have the numbers right in front of me. good article.
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09-10-2005, 08:41 PM
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#3
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Poll... Do you wear seatbelts?
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A 10 percent reduction in rolling resistance would yield gas savings of 1 to 2 percent on average, according to Green Seal, a Washington-based nonprofit environmental advocacy organization. Car manufacturers have achieved at least 50 percent reduction in rolling resistance to meet federal fuel economy standards.
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Found this online, pretty interesting. LRRs have a big impact, according to this, as big an impact as losing 100 pounds out of your car. And hell, LRRs are cheaper than carbon fiber hoods and sunroof plugs. This is a great way to get up there easily in the mpg game. |
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09-10-2005, 11:50 PM
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#4
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Driving on E
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,993
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was there a california hf?
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Originally Posted by SVOboy
Found this online, pretty interesting. LRRs have a big impact, according to this, as big an impact as losing 100 pounds out of your car. And hell, LRRs are cheaper than carbon fiber hoods and sunroof plugs. This is a great way to get up there easily in the mpg game.
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I'm planning on putting LRRs on my HX rims once I get the money saved up. The weight reduction of the HX rims and the Low Rolling Resistance of the tires should give me a few mpg extra. |
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10-25-2005, 04:55 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 2,379
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List of LRR Tires
I'm putting together a list of LRRs. Kudos to SVOboy for the PDF on LRRs, but the list is from early '03 and many tire models are no longer available. I've worked with the TireRack in the past and they are friendly to web-boards and folks with individual needs, so I've summoned their assistance in my research. Hopefully they'll have a list of what they sell soon. By all means, purchase where available and cost effective if they don't deliver as expected. I've searched the web with little success for today's LRRs, so off we go...
RH77
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10-25-2005, 06:50 PM
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#6
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Sounds exciting, keep us
Sounds exciting, keep us posted.
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10-25-2005, 10:54 PM
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#7
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Driving on E
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,993
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Re: List of LRR Tires
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Originally Posted by rh77
I'm putting together a list of LRRs. Kudos to SVOboy for the PDF on LRRs, but the list is from early '03 and many tire models are no longer available. I've worked with the TireRack in the past and they are friendly to web-boards and folks with individual needs, so I've summoned their assistance in my research. Hopefully they'll have a list of what they sell soon. By all means, purchase where available and cost effective if they don't deliver as expected. I've searched the web with little success for today's LRRs, so off we go...
RH77
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please find available sizes as well. I need to find 185R14-60 LRR tires and am having a very difficult time. |
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10-28-2005, 05:26 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 2,379
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Minor Set-Back
The TireRack rep. said that their testing facility doesn't perform RRC, or Rolling Resistance Coefficient testing. They do sell OEM tires for current model hybrids (which, by default, have LRRs). I'm currently contacting Green Seal for more info. The test was the result of a bill passed in California, to study tires' effects on the evironment. The full report can be found here for super-specific info:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/reports/200...-001CRVOL2.PDF
Hopefully there's another test out there that's not as old.
-RH77
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11-19-2005, 01:18 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 2,379
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Green Seal -- No new Test
Just an update on the low-rolling resistance tires -- Green Seal doesn't have any other new testing in the works. I've written the tire companies individually with no success. Anyone out there with connections to the tire industry? There's an independent testing firm in Akron, Ohio that does this testing (at a cost). Is there anyone out there that would perhaps sponsor new testing -- like a University or State agency? (I know I'm reaching here, but where the rubber meets the road could yield better economy, and new testing is due).
RH77
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11-19-2005, 02:10 AM
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#10
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Driving on E
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,993
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Re: Green Seal -- No new Test
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Originally Posted by rh77
Just an update on the low-rolling resistance tires -- Green Seal doesn't have any other new testing in the works. I've written the tire companies individually with no success. Anyone out there with connections to the tire industry? There's an independent testing firm in Akron, Ohio that does this testing (at a cost). Is there anyone out there that would perhaps sponsor new testing -- like a University or State agency? (I know I'm reaching here, but where the rubber meets the road could yield better economy, and new testing is due).
RH77
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I hate to say this, but when gas prices dropping again (I saw $2.04 locally tonight) this whole fuel economy thing isn't very attractive to most people. Even though the car companies are now just displaying gas mileage as a way to advertise their cars, I doubt that anyone else is going to catch on.
Perhaps the best bet is to find out what tires hybrids use (like the Bridgestone RE92) and just get those tires. Most hybrids use LRR tires.
I'm planning on getting whatever the Civic Hybrid uses and throwing them on my lightweight rims that are sitting in the garage.
If there is a univeristy that is willing to test the rolling resistance of certain tires, however, that would be wonderful. |
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11-19-2005, 05:53 AM
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#11
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3 pedals>*
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,024
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I don't know about you but I
I don't know about you but I pumped up my tires a little more and it gives me 3mpg more. I don't know if mine are low resistence tires but they are Kumho all season 716's
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11-19-2005, 09:30 AM
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#12
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Yours won't be LRRs, compaq,
Yours won't be LRRs, compaq, but 3 mpg, that's a damn good deal. I would go with whatev the insights use, because people pump those up to 55 psi and get good results out of them.
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11-19-2005, 11:45 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 2,379
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45 PSI Always
I've always run 45 PSI and haven't had any unusual wear in the middle and can still take the exit ramps at 60. I'm thinking of getting either the Insight or Civic Hybrid tires when the current ones wear out (which is soon, and snow is on its way) - but I'm sure handling will suffer :-(
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11-19-2005, 07:06 PM
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#14
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3 pedals>*
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,024
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Does the new 2006 civic
Does the new 2006 civic hybrid have low resistent tires?
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11-19-2005, 07:13 PM
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#15
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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They ought to, I'm not
They ought to, I'm not entirely sure though.
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11-19-2005, 07:21 PM
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#16
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3 pedals>*
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,024
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ok, I just want to know for
ok, I just want to know for sure because I got mine for $279 installed and balanced and they handle way better then my previous tires.
I just don't see the point in buying special tires for a lot more and getting only 1-2mpg.
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11-19-2005, 07:22 PM
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#17
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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The 2006 civic hybrid uses
The 2006 civic hybrid uses kumhos?
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11-19-2005, 07:39 PM
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#18
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3 pedals>*
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,024
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no, lol. I do.
I do know
no, lol. I do.
I do know they are the same size as my car. 195/65/15
I stopped using that size. I now use 205/60/15
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11-19-2005, 07:53 PM
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#19
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Ah, gotcha. Bigger tires
Ah, gotcha. Bigger tires will also cut down on your mpg by the way, especially if you get 21 chrome spinners. --_^
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11-23-2005, 04:56 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 2,379
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"Unsprung Weight"
Reducing the diameter but also, based on racing principles, the lighter the weight of the rim has a huge impact on not only the handling, but in fuel economy (The "Unsprung Weight" Principle). It takes less energy to get them going and less to stop (like a flywheel). Unfortunately, lightweight rims tend to come in larger sizes (unless you source them from a hybrid).
-RH77
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11-23-2005, 06:56 PM
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#21
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Honda Civic HX, 1996- has
Honda Civic HX, 1996- has these extremely lightweight wheels that're only 14 inches, and alloys. In demand of course, but you can get a good set for like 250 shipped, I think that's around what Matt paid. You can also get Honda Civic VX, 1992-1995 13 inchers that are even lighter. Both of these sets use the 4x100mm bolt pattern, which is common across many makes and models, so not just a Honda thing, -_^
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11-24-2005, 11:13 AM
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#22
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Driving on E
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,993
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Re: Honda Civic HX, 1996- has
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Originally Posted by SVOboy
Honda Civic HX, 1996- has these extremely lightweight wheels that're only 14 inches, and alloys. In demand of course, but you can get a good set for like 250 shipped, I think that's around what Matt paid. You can also get Honda Civic VX, 1992-1995 13 inchers that are even lighter. Both of these sets use the 4x100mm bolt pattern, which is common across many makes and models, so not just a Honda thing, -_^
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I paid about $250 for my HX rims. They are still sitting in my garage. In all truth I'd probably rather have VX rims as they are 2 pounds lighter each. The VX rims weigh 9.75 pounds each, and the HX rims weigh 11.75 pounds each.
I'm hoping that my eventual upgrade to the HX rims yields about 2 mpg improvement. |
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11-24-2005, 11:25 AM
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#23
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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I figure hx rims are prolly
I figure hx rims are prolly better for most not honda people, as brake fitment could become an issue on larger cars.
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11-24-2005, 01:15 PM
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#24
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3 pedals>*
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,024
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dang those are some
dang those are some lighweight wheels. Mine oem wheels weigh 20.6 lbs with hubcaps. Tires off of course.
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11-24-2005, 01:19 PM
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#25
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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I'm sure you could get some
I'm sure you could get some aftermarket 10 pounders pretty cheap, just gotta look for em. What's your bolt pattern?
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11-24-2005, 02:33 PM
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#26
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3 pedals>*
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,024
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114.3X4
114.3X4
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11-24-2005, 04:34 PM
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#27
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granny just passed me
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,200
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KONIG HELIUM wheels are
KONIG HELIUM wheels are really nice they are only 10.6 pounds each. They cost around $400 on ebay
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2008 EPA adjusted:
Distance traveled by bicycle in 2007= 1,830ish miles
Average commute speed=25mph (yes, that's in a car)
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11-24-2005, 04:38 PM
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#28
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granny just passed me
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,200
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this style miata wheel is
this style miata wheel is light too. around 12 pounds (i'm not 100% shure).
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2008 EPA adjusted:
Distance traveled by bicycle in 2007= 1,830ish miles
Average commute speed=25mph (yes, that's in a car)
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11-25-2005, 08:22 AM
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#29
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New Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 21
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^ Good info on the Miata
^ Good info on the Miata wheels. I'm running the 94-97 "Semi-hollow spokes"(~11 lbs.) on my CRX and the 90-93 "Panasport Wannabes" (~12 lbs.)on my Civic Wagon. They are cheap and easy to find.
Theres even a 92-93 BBS made wheel that is also a 14" but they only weigh 9 lbs! These are not cheap and easy to find.
They are the correct bolt pattern and offset for Hondas, but they require the center hub to be bored out a couple mm.
Someone metioned Bridgestone RE-92 earlier. DON'T DO IT!
I bought a set when I needed new tires on my previous '98 Protege. Due to the hookup I was getting, I was limited to Bridgestone and then only what sizes they had in stock...the decision was pretty much made for me. I was running a set of discontinued RE-71 on the CRX that I loved, and the RE-92 had gotten okay reviews, so I figured how bad could it be?
My first impression was, "Eh...they're alright. Especially for the price."
Then it rained.
Holy crap, they scared the bejeezus out of me. I've run on race tires in the rain with more confidence. This is an all season tire?
I got rid of them as soon as I could afford new tires. Good thing it doesn't rain in Texas very often.
Speaking of tire alternatives have you seen:
1. polyurethane tires. Outlasts, outperforms and outprices regular tires. http://www.amerityre.com/
From what I've read, they're currently doing tests to meet gov't compliance to sell road legal tires...but since they're not regular air tires, some of test criteria can not be measured and this caused hold ups. I guess you can't test how a blow out is going to affect it.
2. Tweels. Rubber spokes, little or no air, depending on how development goes. http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000790025885/
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11-28-2005, 07:48 AM
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#30
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 1,615
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Those tweels are trippy - I
Those tweels are trippy - I read a good article on them about a year ago.
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