Coolant Leak Question - Integra

[rh77]

Hey all-

Lately I've been losing nearly 3/4 of the coolant capacity in the '98 Integra over a week's time. I smell it quite often as I drive, and I think I may have pinpointed the source, but it doesn't make much sense.

Spatter marks on the underside of the hood focus the source as the reservoir tank area. My question: I didn't think that the tank was under any pressure. A check of the line from the rad-cap doesn't show any sign of wear or puncture. I can't even detect a crack in the tank, but coolant has leaked all over it after a drive. I could understand a failed overflow tank cap, but why the pressured spatter? I've also checked the usual suspects along the whole coolant track and everything's dry except the res. tank and the hood. Any thoughts?

Thanks...

RH77

[SVOboy]

Have you tried letting it running and seeing where it's coming from? I've heard cases of the coolant boiling up out of the overflow reservoir, so I won't say squirting is impossible, but at this point, Iono, quite the issue, sounds like you should buy a crx,

[Gary Palmer]

When you replace coolant, are you talking radiator, or only reservoir?

[rh77]

Well, I considered trading it in on a CRX, but got vetoed from the other branch of legislature

When I'm refilling, I'm talking about filling the radiator with about a half-gallon, then the rest into the reservoir tank, letting it run and vent the air, etc. I do have the hotter, 190F thermostat installed, but that shouldn't cause the problem.

Honestly, I sat in the driveway with the engine running for at least 15 minutes and got the coolant temp up to 215F according to the ScanGauge. Nothing happened, just the fans coming on now and then. So, I thought back to when it seems to happen the most -- which is when I'm starting the car back up after engine-off coasting. Is it possible that the coolant that is sitting in the block jackets are getting hot and not being pumped back until startup, then a mini boil-over occurs and within moments, the coolant normalizes as it pumps? I've never noticed any steam, but I do smell that antifreeze smell pretty strongly.

I've tried to replicate the problem to visualize it, but I think the car needs to be moving. Maybe I'll try driving around the neighborhood with the hood up (disclaimer: do not attempt. Professional driver.) Honestly tho, I'm using a 50/50 pre-mix and the rad doesn't seem to have any holes and all the connections are tight.

A couple of years ago, my friend bought a CRX HF. It was in decent shape and it ran well -- that was until he loaned it to somebody and they didn't notice the oil lamp indicator when the oil pump failed. Ka-blooey. He later sold it. But I drove it and was impressed with how well it felt for its age. This really should be another thread, but is it possible to put a Diesel engine in a CRX?

RH77

[SVOboy]

Sure, it's possible to diesel it up. Just depends how much fab work you wanna do. They do all this tilting and special hoods to get a k20 in there, of course a diesel will fit,

[rh77]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Sure, it's possible to diesel it up. Just depends how much fab work you wanna do. They do all this tilting and special hoods to get a k20 in there, of course a diesel will fit,

I was thinking a Cummins I-6 from the Dodge Super Duty in the rear-engine config . In all seriousness, the LS engine has a lot of life left, so I'm waiting on that -- that is unless there's a good market out there for a b18A2/LS engine to offset the custom fab work. There are tons of choices from Europe and Asia in the Diesel market, but lots of custom fab work would definitely be required. Too bad Honda got into it late with the Euro-D Accord. That's too much power tho. I was thinking more of a 1.2L with a manual swap. It would be easier to import an old Citroen or something.

RH77

[SVOboy]

B18 can get around 500 bucks I guess,

I'm planning a diesel swap as well, but Iono, need to learn a bit more about the options.

[DaX]

I say radiator cap or blown head gasket based on your observations.

[MetroMPG]

I've also wondered about CODFISHing's effect on block/head temperature. I do not think those short hot soaks are good for things - my SG1 shows coolant temp can spike +25F above normal during a long coast with a fully warm engine.

I'd prefer to have some electric method of keeping the cooolant moving while the engine's off, but I'm not sure how to go about it.

[SVOboy]

Get an electrical water pump, dude!

[Gary Palmer]

[quote=rh77]Well, I considered trading it in on a CRX, but got vetoed from the other branch of legislature

When I'm refilling, I'm talking about filling the radiator with about a half-gallon, then the rest into the reservoir tank, letting it run and vent the air, etc. I do have the hotter, 190F thermostat installed, but that shouldn't cause the problem.

It is always wise to consider and respect the other branch of the legislature.

If your losing 1/2 gallon, their is something wrong and it's not just the codfishing that is causing the problem. I have an 87 Civic which I have been having difficulties with for quite some time. It would test fine in sitting, letting it heat up, fan's coming on and so forth. It woldn't exhibit a problem until it was driven warm, up a hill, in heat condition's. It would be fine and then all of a sudden it the temperature would go up and not come back down, properly. Invariably it would be a quart or so low on water/antifreeze in the radiator.

I finally found what was causing the problem was my radiator core had gotten really weak, and a mounting bracket was not secure. Apparently it would only lose a modest amount of water, under pressure, over a period of time. It would get a little low, then the thermostat wouldn't be covered in water, so the thermostat wouldn't open and then the heat would climb rapidly and put more pressure, causing more water loss. I got a replacement radiator and it seem's to have addressed the issue or problem.

I would suggest getting the cooling system pressure tested, my guess would be you have a small, pressure related leak, which isn't obvious. Good Luck.

p.s. On the Civic it has a bleed screw, which I have to use, to get all of the air out of the cooling system. The radiator sit's very low, relative to the head of the motor, so if their is any air in the system, it get's in the head and sometimes dosen't allow the thermostat to open, properly. until I bleed that air out, nothing really behaves itself properly, in the cooling system.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Get an electrical water pump, dude!

Oh, ye of little MacGyver-ness.

[krousdb]

Why not an electric powered alternator?

[MetroMPG]

Powered by wheel generators!

[krousdb]

Or a wind turbine mounted on a big honkin rear wing spoiler.

[Compaq888]

Stopped doing engine off coasting with my manual. Auto and the manual I got now. Whenever I turned off the engine it still ran. So I had to turn the key all the way off but then it wouldn't show my mileage. So what's the point of coasting with an engine off and the odometer not working.

I didn't know the temps spike with the engine off. Now I'm definetly not going to do it. 50mpg can be achieved with the engine on.

RH my advice is stop with this engine off thing, because it clearly looks like it's the culprit and your engine is not handling it that well.

[rh77]

Crapola!

I get the CODFISHING down to a science in an automatic, and now it's potentially causing problems. I'll have to try engine-on coasts and see if it still loses the coolant. If so, I'll have to get it checked-out before Winter. Buggah.

I'm pretty sure it isn't the head gasket or any other sealed locale, except maybe the corner of the rad sprung a leak. The odd thing is, the temp gauge doesn't move at all, once it's up to operating temp range (170-210F).

At any rate, I agree with McGyver Metro. You could rig-up something that runs the entire accessory belt-driven components on the momentum of the turning wheels. As far as the water pump, mine is driven by the timing belt, which is a tricky deal. This has just been a tough car for GasSavers applications

I'll try the bleed-screw thing also -- Teggy could have some gas...

RH77

[JanGeo]

Are you shutting down the engine after heavy throttle use before the engine has a chance to cool the heat traveling through the metal of the engine - that can cause delayed temperature rise and a lot of thermal stress. Really back for Turbo driven engines - the oil cooling the bearings gets cooked by the heat of the turbine before the turbine has a chance to cool down. You probably have a hose or pinhole in the radiator and the fans are blowing it around when they kick in at elevated temperatures.

[zpiloto]

Originally Posted by rh77

Crapola!

The odd thing is, the temp gauge doesn't move at all, once it's up to operating temp range (170-210F).

RH77

My gauge doesn't move once it get to 170 and the temp can goes as high as 218 in traffic and the thing never budges. I guess if it moved around with the temps people whould think it's broke If it ever moves to the high side of normal then it most be getting really hot.

[ZugyNA]

This is for another car...but yours is likley about the same....

If you have questions about coolant loss, you need to do the following:

* Check your rad cap for leaks. Replace it?

* Check the gasket UNDER the thing that the cap fits onto...a brass part.

* Check the condition of the small brass pipe (on the brass thing) that connects to the hose going to your coolant overflow tank...it can corrode seriously. I soldered a soft copper tube over mine and reconnected the rubber hose.

* Be sure the hose to the coolant tank isn't blocked and also check the inlet in the bottom of the tank...this can happen if stop leak has been used. Remove the tank and clean it & the hose out with water pressure.

* When done....use a permanent marker to mark your COLD COOLANT LEVEL when the car has sat overnight, so you can keep close track of any coolant loss cold....before starting it up.

* If you rule out coolant loss from the cap to the coolant tank, then you can tell if there is a loss elsewhere...and you will have an accurate idea of HOW MUCH COOLANT YOU ARE LOSING.

* You can use a flashlight to check for leaks around the waterpump, and top front of engine, & back between the valve covers. Also check heater hoses and radiator hoses and the radiator. Best bet is to do this just as the engine temp first gets near the center area on the temp gauge, when it's not so hot that the coolant totally vaporizes...you can still see small leaks. A flashlight allows you to concentrate on a small area.

* Symptoms of a blown head gasket: Start car COLD with cap off and coolant visible...look for a small stream of bubbles...if you see any, this is probably an exhaust into coolant leak. If you get serious bubbling in the resevoir when the car is hot and it overheats, this pretty much confirms it. I would replace the thermostat first & "burp" it, before removing the heads though.

[rh77]

Originally Posted by zpiloto

My gauge doesn't move once it get to 170 and the temp can goes as high as 218 in traffic and the thing never budges. I guess if it moved around with the temps people whould think it's broke If it ever moves to the high side of normal then it most be getting really hot.

Yeah, I heard the same thing. Also, back in the 70's they started putting the normal mark in the same spot among the same model, so if Mr. X's '76 Plymouth Volare' Wagon's temp gauge was slightly higher than his neighbor Mr. Y's identical car (a Dodge Aspen Wagon in this case), then they wouldn't be rushing to the dealer to complain than one ran "hotter". But indeed, it takes quite the heat for it to go past that mark.

Also, thanks Zugy for the info. I'll have to check those items. I'm going on a 100-mile round-trip right now, so I should have a chance to do some more analysis.

JanGeo, many times I would accelerate up to speed and cut the power, which probably isn't a good idea using the turbo analogy.

We'll see what develops. Thanks guys!

RH77

[rh77]

Well,

After taking it to a local shop that will look things over free of charge to help the "break-it-yourselfer", they recommended a new rad cap, and to clean all of the green showing anywhere in the engine bay. I did that, ran an errand, came back and saw a little squirt on the reservoir. I waited 10 minutes, came back, and coolant was running down the top of the rad after if cooled -- there was green all over the top of the nooks and crannies of the rad. Looks like a puncture I 'spose.

Should I have a pressure test done, to be sure?
If I replace the rad, how high on a 1-10 scale would the difficulty be?

Thanks again -- I'm slowly learning the world of do-it-yourself auto repair and you all have been very helpful. When I joined this site I could basically change the oil. Now I can really get into some trouble! JK

RH77

[Gary Palmer]

If it were me, I'd go ahead and get a new radiator and put it in. When you do the radiator, I would recommend getting all new radiator and heater hoses, as well. When you get a new radiator, purchase the heaviest duty, most number of radiator core's you can get. Additionally, I would try to find a new radiator which has brass tank's, not the cheappy plastic one's which seem to be typical, more often than not. If you get the brass, they seal to the core's with solder, instead of relying on a rubber gasket and a bunch of bent metal tang's, to hold the tank to the core's.

To replace, take drain your radiator fluid, their is usually a petcock at the bottom of the radiator. Disconnect and remove all electric fan's. Disconnect and remove all hose's. Typically their should be a couple of bolt's which hold the top of the radiator, to the front crossmember, through some rubber bushing's. Remove those and you should be able to remove the radiator.

When your done replacing everything, I recommend you use a mix of 50/50 antifreeze and distilled water. If you use distilled water it makes it so you don't get any deposit's, to speak of, plugging up your radiator or the engine.

Good Luck.

[rh77]

Originally Posted by Gary Palmer

If it were me, I'd go ahead and get a new radiator and put it in. When you do the radiator, I would recommend getting all new radiator and heater hoses, as well. When you get a new radiator, purchase the heaviest duty, most number of radiator core's you can get. Additionally, I would try to find a new radiator which has brass tank's, not the cheappy plastic one's which seem to be typical, more often than not. If you get the brass, they seal to the core's with solder, instead of relying on a rubber gasket and a bunch of bent metal tang's, to hold the tank to the core's.

To replace, take drain your radiator fluid, their is usually a petcock at the bottom of the radiator. Disconnect and remove all electric fan's. Disconnect and remove all hose's. Typically their should be a couple of bolt's which hold the top of the radiator, to the front crossmember, through some rubber bushing's. Remove those and you should be able to remove the radiator.

When your done replacing everything, I recommend you use a mix of 50/50 antifreeze and distilled water. If you use distilled water it makes it so you don't get any deposit's, to speak of, plugging up your radiator or the engine.

Good Luck.

Holy crap, thanks Gary! I have time this week to look for and install the rad, so it should get done soon. Thanks yet again for the detailed advice!

RH77