Auto Tranny 2nd gear gone

[JanGeo]

Friend of mine has a Honda !!!! Civic I think - and the dealer says the 2nd gear is gone - don't know if it is clutch or actual gear but the car doesn't go - should have tried reverse I guess but I didn't ask. 100,000 miles on it and it didn't make any funny noises. Any thoughts about this?? Thanks! - update no reverse either and it 2001 Civic LX automatic!!!

[DaX]

I have seen seemingly normal manual honda transmissions explode or chew the teeth off of gears due to a loss of lubricant. I saw one car where the driver had gone too far up and hit a parking block with the transmission case, cracking it and leaking the oil out over a period of a few weeks. Eventually the lack of oil caused the 4th gear to sieze to the mainshaft and chew the teeth off. I have also seen loss of lubricant through loose drain plugs and improper sealing of the case halves durring reassembly if the transmission has been taken apart before.

[Gary Palmer]

Originally Posted by theclencher

I bought a car once- from the brother of a tranny repairman no less!!!- that he said the trans was out on. I put some fluid in, saw that it all got pumped out onto the ground through the leaking cooling line, replaced the line, and went happily on my way with a tranny that works great!

Check the fluid first.

I'd just like to second this. If they aren't getting any engaging, I'd be inclined to think this is a potentially very likely cause. I know it's gotten me a couple of time's.

[JanGeo]

The dealer that he bought it from used for $14k gave him a $3400 repair price - it is 800 miles past the warrenty and he still owes 5k on it. They checked it for $87 and said the second gear was shot but it was a computer diagnostic.

[lovemysan]

honda + automatic + 00 or newer = bad taste for me. I had an 02 TL-s. They'll give you all the free rebuilt trannies you want till the warranty expires.
I've heard of high failure rates(high for honda) for many of there product lines including the pilot, odessey, tls.

I'd ask the dealer if its $3400 for OEM new. If not get a private rebuild that way you can look the guy rebuilding it in the EYE.

It completely defeats the purpose of purchasing a honda if the tranny is going to fail. You pay a premium for the honda mark. But if your not getting honda dependability its pointless. Buy a toyota or a manual.

[lovemysan]

Boom, HEADSHOT!!

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Re...ic& trimid=-1

Everyone needs to wakeup honda makes garbage transmissions. My wife and I refer to TL's as trannymunchers.

Tell this person to call HONDA client services and talk them into a free transmission. She might talk them into paying only labor and they provide the parts for free. Most likely there are installing used rebuilt transmissions. The rebuilders are private contracters for the TL's so I would assume that civic transmissions are too. There has got to be a complaint thread in referrence to this.

Here is the TL tranny failure thread

http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106818

[JanGeo]

HEY Thanks for the ammo - I passed it on to my buddy - that really shines some light on the Honda problem - am sure glad I bought Toyota/Scion so far two recalls for headlight reflectors on certain brands not meeting DOT and I don't have them. nothing else going on officially but there has been some reports of rusting in odd places.

[DaX]

lovemysan is right, I have been very disappointed with 2000 and newer Honda automatic transmissions.

For a little while I wanted to work at the new Honda transmission plant in Georgia, but screw that, I'm not having everyone come to me like "why do you build huge stinking piles of ****?"

[JanGeo]

He got a price for a complete overhaul for $1800 with a 1 year warrenty at a tansmission place where he towed it to and another office for a $1000 for a swap with 30 day warrenty. Next he is thinking of trading it in for a Yaris.

[Gary Palmer]

Did it get to 100,000 on the first transmission. If it did, that is not unreasonable, I don't believe. If that is the case, I'd get another quote. If I were getting it done, I'd try to find someplace that the people working in the shop do the rebuilding, instead of just getting a rebuilt installed, which is what the dealer's do, typically. All other thing's being equal, I'd get the $1000 swap. The liklihood is pretty high that if it has a catastrophic issue, it's going to show up in the first 30 day's, particularly if you know your checking to make sure it's doing Ok. The cost/risk factor doesn't justify the $1800 price, IMO.

[psyshack]

As for Tranny failures with Hondas. The v6, 5 AT's have had issues. There have been some failures in the MT TL's and Civic Si's. One would have to wonder about some badly blown shifts in the TL's and Civic's.

The 5AT in our 05 Accord I4 seems to be doing well. but I also do a 3 qt. tranny fluid change on it every 3rd oil change and replace the inline filter on it.

The 5MT in my Civic feels clumbsy. I think its the cable style linkage used.

I think Hondas problems with there at's stem from folks wanting smooth shifting tranny's. This GM slush box approach induces slippage which inturns increase's heat. They have had issues with the fluid jets pluging up in the trannys. Cure has been to add another jet or mode the nozzles that are there.

Older Honda auto trannys use to shift harder. That resulted in less slip, heat and shed clutch matrial floating around in the fluid.

You can thank the American consumer for wanting a GM type slush box shift. Its the one and only thing I hate about our Accord. I drive it and catch my self thinking Im driving a Impala and then expect parts to fall off or out of it. Then i see the H on the steering wheel and relax.

[Compaq888]

this is one of the reasons that I sold my altima. Sometimes it refused to go into 3rd gear. it would rev in 2nd and I would have to finesse the pedal for it to go in 3rd.

Now I get to pick any gear I want in my civic.

[JanGeo]

Originally Posted by Gary Palmer

Did it get to 100,000 on the first transmission. If it did, that is not unreasonable, I don't believe. If that is the case, I'd get another quote. If I were getting it done, I'd try to find someplace that the people working in the shop do the rebuilding, instead of just getting a rebuilt installed, which is what the dealer's do, typically. . .

Yes it did get to 100,000 the killer is this is the Honda I talked about with the timing belt water pump change earlier this year. The shop that would do the master rebuild kit wanted $1800 and would take a week.

[Gary Palmer]

Oiu; time to call it quit's and get a different pony!

[JanGeo]

Originally Posted by Gary Palmer

Oiu; time to call it quit's and get a different pony!

Yeah we went and test drove a Yaris today - roomy inside and I am 6 feet tall and was ok in the back seat and it was really easy getting out without banging head or shoulders - they really cut the door shape perfectly to make getting into the back of the 2 door hatchback easy. Needless to say they didn't have his color in stock and the 2007 models are more money. They don't want to give him much for the trade-in of course and he owes money on it more than it is worth and they try to do a 72 month finance OUCH! I think he is leaning towards getting a tranny swap for $1000 in one day and keep it until he gets what he wants at the price he likes. They wanted $13k for the 2 door automatic Yaris with power nothing.

[JanGeo]

OK Looks like he is going for the $1000 swap on Monday.

[lovemysan]

Originally Posted by psyshack

As for Tranny failures with Hondas. The v6, 5 AT's have had issues. There have been some failures in the MT TL's and Civic Si's. One would have to wonder about some badly blown shifts in the TL's and Civic's.

The 5AT in our 05 Accord I4 seems to be doing well. but I also do a 3 qt. tranny fluid change on it every 3rd oil change and replace the inline filter on it.

The 5MT in my Civic feels clumbsy. I think its the cable style linkage used.

I think Hondas problems with there at's stem from folks wanting smooth shifting tranny's. This GM slush box approach induces slippage which inturns increase's heat. They have had issues with the fluid jets pluging up in the trannys. Cure has been to add another jet or mode the nozzles that are there.

Older Honda auto trannys use to shift harder. That resulted in less slip, heat and shed clutch matrial floating around in the fluid.

You can thank the American consumer for wanting a GM type slush box shift. Its the one and only thing I hate about our Accord. I drive it and catch my self thinking Im driving a Impala and then expect parts to fall off or out of it. Then i see the H on the steering wheel and relax.

Here's the sad part of this whole scenario. Your friend bought a used honda civic for $14k and the tranny blew at 100k. He also had to do the t-belt and water pump = more $$$.

On the flip side my wife bought a used 97 sunfire 6.5 years ago for $9,999 with 30k on it. 3 speed auto, it still managed 26mpg all city and 34mpg interstate @ 75mph. This car never broke down! Never! We drove it until last fall when it was T boned. It had a 180k on it. Ran great, burned 1 quart of oil every 1500 miles. Shifted great, still got 31 mpg highway.

All those years we drove that car I never changed anything but the following.
1 battery
1 radio( tape cassette died)
tires- lots
oil and dextron + filters, no flushes
air filter 3 times
1 upper o2 sensor ($19 at autozone)
1 upper motor mount ($50 at autozone)
1 a/c compressor ($205 junkyard part plus labor and refill)
4 dimmer switches (the last one even my wife knew how to install. 10 minute process)
Front brake pads every 30-40k
front Rotors 3 times ($16 each)
You'll notice the plugs and wires were the stockers

No timing chains, struts, egr valves, injectors, sensors, transmissions, nothing. It was a very cheap car to own. Who wants to drive an EXPENSIVE time bomb. GM may not make the most refined cars but then again your not paying the price for refinement are you. But you do get a good product for your money. You pay a honda price you should get honda reliability. For what honda's cost they should not have transmission failures. Especially at 100k. My family never drives a car less than 150k.

[JanGeo]

Yeah I never would buy a honda for sure - my 1994 Geo went through exhost systems a few times and 2 weeks before the chassis rusted out I did the front brakes because they rusted up from lack of use, 1 set of tires changed and barely used - 1 defective map sensor under warrenty and an alignment when I got the tires replaced, one battery after 11 years. Oil was changed maybe at 6-8k mile intervals and filter every other time. Two head lights within a few months of each other. Never got stuck ANYWHERE until the the front wheel fell off at the end of its life. Oh year and over 50MPG just about all the time too except when the MAP sensor screwed up. Original Plugs, wires, air filter, shocks and wiper blades replace after the first year were still ok.

[JanGeo]

Looks like the junkyard guys dropped the replacement tranny and broke the rear mount - tried to weld it but something inside broke - another one coming from out west . . . another week waiting . . . and rain for the next few days.

[JanGeo]

Ok the one from out west was a joke - they welded the one they dropped and put it in then found leaks all over the place - fixed the leaks and found out that 3rd gear was bad so we went back today and towed it back to S&S Transmission to get the original rebuilt - got there and found out that they lost the starter and a few valves on the housing and the intake hose for the airbox and we are not sure where they went.

[JanGeo]

Ok NOW the transmission guys have the car and all the parts form the junk yard work - they take it apart and find 4th gear is shot so the price now jumps up to $3300 - up $1500 - add to that the few hundred on the 4 tow trips and the $4700 he still owes on a car he bought used for $14,000 three years ago and put 75k miles on and it is looking pretty grim. Going to cost him $8000 to keep the car and finish paying for it with 100k on it already or loose $1700 if he trades it in for a new Yaris - of course he already has lost a chunk of change with the two junk yard tires and towing. Not to mention the car rentals and my time driving him around.

[lovemysan]

Sounds like trading is cheaper than fixing. It boils down to simple math. Did I mention that Honda SUCKS!!!!!!!!. $4000 transmissions that only last 100k you do the math. Sounds like a crummy car to me with a honda badge on it. Honda needs to eat crow on this one. Did he call honda client services to try and get a free replacement? This works sometimes. Faulty transmissions are a big problem for honda now. Honda has been giving away the factory rebuilt units for free (you must pay shop labor for install =$800 for the TLS) to some owners of out warranty. MSN autos has declared civic transmissions to have FREQUENT failures. WHAT? this is a honda, right? Civic is not the only product line affected. Also the accord, odessey, TLS, and others I'm sure.

Tell your friend to buy a gm car next time at least the transmission won't need replacing every four years. Or a korean car next time. Or pick a car. Did I mention I hate HONDA. I'm still paying for that crummy acura.

[onegammyleg]

Second gear gone ? .

Found it ..

[JanGeo]

Naaa its an automatic tranny - I have a hard time believing that they went bad when they are in constant mesh - was second speed clutch and 4th speed gears.

[onegammyleg]

Hi JanGeo -¨I have a hard time believing that they went bad¨

Ahh , an auto , ,yeah , ime sure it is possible to break a planetry gear system , but I personally have never seen it.
Its usually clutches , bands , and control bodies that cause the most grief.

[JanGeo]

Yeah exactly - that's why I think he may be being taken for a ride because he doesn't know about cars and gears but I do - though I never saw the insides of an automatic I have rebuilt and lubed 3 speed hubs and manual gear boxes. You would have to have a lube failure for the gears to wear or jammed it in park while moving? Unless they were talking about the clutches but 1500 more for 4th gear come on!

[onegammyleg]

Hi JanGeo -¨or jammed it in park while moving?¨

Hehehe , ,that reminded me of the time I was driving in my 5.0L Ford with an auto.
I burned away from the lights holding it in 1st , clicked into second , redlined it again (quite fast now) and then as I was selecting D it went too far and went into R.

The engine immediatly stalled locking up the back wheels leaving 2 very thick black stripes up the road.

The result ?!?!? , no damage., apart from two square tires.

[JanGeo]

Yeah - the shifter is not to be pulled towards you when up shifting that way you hit the stop and end up in neutral and then slide it back into drive again without pulling it towards you. To get into lower gears and reverse you have to pull the lever towards you and for park you have to pull it towards you a lot more than even reverse. You also can slide it out of reverse into drive by simply pushing the lever downwards again without pulling it towards you. A lot of people don't know this and are always trying to find the proper gear with the shift indicator.