Poll: Should Stability Control be Standard

[rh77]

Should Stability Control be standard on all passenger vehicles sold in the U.S. and Canada?

[brick]

I'm fine with it. When I was younger I was fortunate in that there was plenty of opportunity to drive around on snowy, desolate back roads and parking lots. That's where I learned how to handle a skid and it has saved my butt more than once. But fast foward 8 years or so and there's still plenty of chance that I'll make a mistake, and I'm all for having an electronic system as backup to smart driving. Not only that, but we don't have any control over those with whom we share the road. Some can handle themselves in adverse conditions, others drive like idiots and won't know what to do if they break loose on a right-hand turn and one of us is in the oncoming lane. Stability control in one car might well keep someone else on the road and out of the hospital.

I have read quite a bit of whining and complaining about stability control from the "performance oriented" crowd. They either complain that it will fight them and do more harm than good, or else it de-rates the car's performance so that they can't go as fast. I even read one assertion that stability control is some kind of conspiracy to enforce slower driving. To the first, I would contend that it isn't terribly likely. In cases where a driver has blamed a crash on stabiliy control, one might wonder what would have happened with out it. Might it be that it's possible to set yourself up so badly that nothing can keep you out of the trees? And with the power deration and speed complaints, my response is "well, duh." Going too fast is a likely precursor to most single-car accidents. I would contend that the driver complaining about an unexpected loss of power was probably closer to the edge than he knew.

Like some were saying in the other thread, intensive driver education would be the best thing. Get people behind the wheel, put them on an adverse road surface, and let them experience loss of traction. Then teach them how not to get into that situation again. Finally, teach them how to get out of the skid once they are in it and drill them until countersteer and the right footwork are reflexive. Unfortunately I don't know if we will ever see that here. Too many of us treat cars like appliances, and our driver education program in the US is pathetic. Given that reality, standard stability control is a viable stop-gap to make the roads a safer, if slightly less "exciting."

[rh77]

Originally Posted by brick

I'm fine with it...Some can handle themselves in adverse conditions, others drive like idiots and won't know what to do if they break loose on a right-hand turn and one of us is in the oncoming lane. Stability control in one car might well keep someone else on the road and out of the hospital.

Well put, Brick.

Originally Posted by Brick

I have read quite a bit of whining and complaining about stability control from the "performance oriented" crowd.

To be impartial, I agree here. For performance-related, closed-track events, SC is a huge hinderance -- that is unless you can switch it off completely. For example, a Corvette Z06 with a decent performance driver can lose traction and get some yaw and slip angle here-and-there to make the best time on an autocross track. I've seen them try it (and driven one with it switched both on and off). It simply kills the acceleration and what the driver wants to do with the whole car. Now, on the streets, I would DEFINITELY want SC in the Z06. My Dad had one for a while and I got to drive it a few times. It demands respect like a table saw. Use it responsibly and think, or else there's dire consequences.

Like some were saying in the other thread, intensive driver education would be the best thing. Get people behind the wheel, put them on an adverse road surface, and let them experience loss of traction. Then teach them how not to get into that situation again. Finally, teach them how to get out of the skid once they are in it and drill them until countersteer and the right footwork are reflexive. Unfortunately I don't know if we will ever see that here. Too many of us treat cars like appliances, and our driver education program in the US is pathetic. Given that reality, standard stability control is a viable stop-gap to make the roads a safer, if slightly less "exciting."

True. Most of America doesn't see past 50% of their redline, and is afraid to redline an engine, even though, every car from the factory is designed to perform at the manufacturer's limits, reliably -- but they'll gladly press "10" on their other appliance, the blender, to make a Margarita. (and then go drive) But yes, I'd like to see high-schools have more than "10-and-2" and the "3-second rule" -- that should be the first half of the driving portion. The second half should be controlling emergency situations in a controlled environment.

[Ted Hart]

Originally posted by Brick:
"Going too fast is a likely precursor to most single-car accidents. I would contend that the driver complaining about an unexpected loss of power was probably closer to the edge than he knew.

Like some were saying in the other thread, intensive driver education would be the best thing.
Unfortunately I don't know if we will ever see that here. Too many of us treat cars like appliances, and our driver education program in the US is pathetic."

Until a tool is invented for tightening "the nut behind the wheel", the rest of us can only watch out for these clowns ... and they're everywhere!

[Sludgy]

Originally Posted by Ted Hart

Originally posted by Brick:Until a tool is invented for tightening "the nut behind the wheel", the rest of us can only watch out for these clowns ... and they're everywhere!

Q: What do you get when you remove the nuts from a Mustang?
A: A Gelding.

[psyshack]

I voted NO

More nannyism for the stupid human. More weight, cost. Im glad Im halfway through my life. I just dont know how much more of this nannyism I can handle.

[Silveredwings]

I voted yes because I might otherwise be the victim of someone else'e loss of control. Having said that, I think Darwin has something for those who refuse to learn how to drive. I personally leave it on unless I want to consciously take manual control of a situation.

In a rear wheel drive, I get better traction by
a) turning off traction control,
b) using a higher gear, and
c) applying the handbrake (the poor man's limited slip).

[Silveredwings]

Originally Posted by Ted Hart

Originally posted by Brick:
"Going too fast is a likely precursor to most single-car accidents. I would contend that the driver complaining about an unexpected loss of power was probably closer to the edge than he knew.

Like some were saying in the other thread, intensive driver education would be the best thing.
Unfortunately I don't know if we will ever see that here. Too many of us treat cars like appliances, and our driver education program in the US is pathetic."

Until a tool is invented for tightening "the nut behind the wheel", the rest of us can only watch out for these clowns ... and they're everywhere!

The first vehicles I see in a ditch every Winter is some kind of 4WD, usually an SUV...sometimes upside down.

[red91sit]

Originally Posted by Silveredwings

The first vehicles I see in a ditch every Winter is some kind of 4WD, usually an SUV...sometimes upside down.

I'd have to completely agree, they seem to be the first ones out in the blizzard. They also seem to completely forget, just cuz you have 4wd, and your 3 feet above the ground, you can't stop any faster!

I"ve never been a fan of traction control, or vehicle stability, (limited slips are nice to have) but that's it. I wouldn't even buy a car if I could not turn off my vehicle stability control.

[The Toecutter]

I voted NO

More nannyism for the stupid human. More weight, cost. Im glad Im halfway through my life. I just dont know how much more of this nannyism I can handle.

Thank you.

I vote a resounding NO as well. I don't want to be forced to pay for such a thing, I don't want the additional weight, and I don't want the additional complexity.

No matter how safe we make our cars, people are going to be killed in them anyway. If one were really concerned about safety, a better idea would be to have roll cages installed in new cars, to prevent occupants from being crushed to death by larger vehicles.

[rh77]

It looks like it is not preferred, from this informal poll.

If you count the "undecided" then it's pretty much even.

The People have spoken.

RH77

[Bunger]

I would have voted NO if it was still open... but I'm sure one day the government will step in a make it a requirement, I just pray they still offer a way to turn it off.

[JanGeo]

Actually this is one safety feature that PREVENTS an accident whereas all the other things you mention protect you in an accident. So most of you would want better tires but not better stability and you don't care about the rest of the incompetent drivers that drive the gas sucking rollover suvs which hit up when they loose control. hummmmm How about if it costs more to NOT get it in you new car - what then?

[schmeep]

i voted yes

i've noticed in most car forums, everyone is a great driver.
well some of us are surely poor drivers and could benefit from a feature like this.

it is probably impossible to see data on abs, but i bet it has prevented many accidents that otherwise would have occurred.
if we aren't prepared to demand more of our licensing system with more strict abilities necessary to become a licensed driver, then stability control will probably benefit all of us. (even the good drivers out there)

[cfg83]

Hello -

I would have voted a close no.

I agree with ToeCutter, build a roll-cage into the design of the car. Emphasize protecting the passenger. I can't find the article, but I once read and agreed that all the new tech goodies can result in certain (bad) drivers pushing their car's limits even further. In that situation, the safety features are neutralized. Here is an article that talks about eroding driver skills :

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/01/...-tech-systems/

PS - I'm an OK driver, not a great driver IMO being slooooooowwwwww avoids alot of problems.

CarloSW2