Article: Is a hybrid worth it?

[kickflipjr]

This is a total breakdown of cost of cars, fuel economy, etc...

It is very in depth. You guys might get a kick out of it.

http://www.omninerd.com/2005/11/11/articles/41

(I will cut to the end for you)

Conclusion

While no "green" person would ever advocate buying a hybrid for purely economic reasons, it is painfully obvious that existing hybrids lack the ability to make up for their steep prices with gas savings. While a hybrid would present significant savings over something like a new Ford Super Duty, you would always save more with any of a number of economy cars.

Hybrid technology is just entering the mainstream, however. As gas prices rise and hybrid technology improves and cheapens, don't be surprised to find hybrid owners in the green.

[FormulaTwo]

according to that, it seems like the best way to go would be with the VW tdi.

[JanGeo]

My friend whom recently purchased a used Prius did it for the tax credits plus the trunk works better for the stuff she carries for her work than the Acura CL3 she had plus 4 doors plus 2.5-3x the gas mileage!

[Sean88]

according to that, it seems like the best way to go would be with the VW tdi.

Actually I believe the table showed that the TDi was the least economical option of all the cars listed. The Chevy Aveo was the most economical. The chart was a bit confusing as the column heading was "Monthly Savings" but the numbers are in parentheses so I think there's a double negative in there.

[BEN_EJ8]

So I think its safe to say that the Civic is no longer the cheapest car to own, drive and maintain, penny per mile?

[rh77]

Originally Posted by FormulaTwo

according to that, it seems like the best way to go would be with the VW tdi.

Precisely! But, if you want a new TDI, you have to wait until 2008-2009 as the EPA has mandated new emissions requirements for Diesels which will make them the some of the cleanest, lowest emission, higher FE vehicles on the road.

RH77

Edit: I have personal research on the "Best Value" gasser (to be posted in the car review section). 2006 Kia Spectra EX.

[ketel0ne]

I'll take my $12k 40mpg Yaris over anything in the list, in plugging in the Yaris actuals for 2007 it is over the Aveo.

[tomauto]

Aveo = crap.

[rh77]

Originally Posted by tomauto

Aveo = crap.

I did a "Second Look" test on the Aveo this past week and got the same 26.x MPG in normal, mixed driving which included the GM-touted 30-some MPH highway use. Same thing with the Cobalt, Ion, and the other cars one-class-up.

Just because it's cheap doesn't mean it's efficient. The '06 Camry 4-cyl auto. would chew it up, spit it out, and have +4 MPG left for the next one (and it's bigger!) I was really hoping for more, and felt good driving a small car, but it was unfounded. Look for the results soon in the reviews section

RH77

[JanGeo]

Yeah the iron block of the american made cars just don't cut it when it comes to mileage. I have a GM Master card with a few thousand towards my next car - talk about a waste of years of purchaces at 5% back towards a GM car - had I know Maybe a Saturn.

Todays driving around in the woods 49.3mpg for about 50 miles of driving.

[JanGeo]

I got a chance to drive the Prius today that my friend has - ran the battery down a bit by the time I got back - man it is tricky to get that thing in gear and they got the forward and reverse upside down on the shifter. Seems the gas pedal is really sensitive to EV mode operation and the engine keeps starting up. Not quite enough power in the electric motor to drive 25-30mph on level ground from what I can see unless something was dragging? The mechanical brakes after almost a week of sitting were really touchy. Needed some really steep hills to test the regen braking but from what I can see there really isn't a lot of energy that the battery has in it - seems to top up pretty quick and run down to the point where it had to charge a lot during my 10 mile ride. Weird driving an automatic and it does seem to "shift" while accelerating - got it to freewheel a little but forgot to try popping it into neutral to get a good coast going. Got up to 37 mph on electric drive only on a gentle downhill. Anyone know the oil capacity because this thing needs some service already and it calls for 5W30. I was not impressed with the mileage and after getting back into my xB with the ScanGaugeII realized that I need to get my SG1 connected to the Prius to really figure out the gas mileage as the console computer didn't register the trip MPG - I think a reset is needed on the computer display?

[Wazabi Owner]

For my Insight I feel it is plenty worth it. I've got a handbuilt all aluminum car(OK some plastic too), 6 years old now and still people ask if I work for Honda and is it some NEW prototype (we have a LOT of prototypes here in town), still fairly cutting edge on technology while being a bare bones point A/point B vehicle. All that for $10,000 - twenty five thousand miles and a year and a half ago. I need to break out my old reciepts/logs and enter them here. I maintained 64.6 MPG for quite a while until Honda's product update which lowered me to around 63.5 for my entire ownership of the car.

IMO, this particular car it was worth it. As far as my old Civic Hybrid, I don't regret getting it but I think I could of done fairly well with an EX but would of taken a huge hit in the MPG department without a Scangauge. Using a Scangauge you can get many of the realtime MPG benifits of a hybrid while driving a more mainstream vehicle that doesn't scare most mechanics away. (yes, I know hybrids are simple to work on once you learn the ins and outs)

In the end it is just personal preference. Once (not if) gas goes to $5 a gallon the hybrid owners will be laughing a bit more.

[FormulaTwo]

Originally Posted by rh77

Edit: I have personal research on the "Best Value" gasser (to be posted in the car review section). 2006 Kia Spectra EX.

Kia mmmmmmm
Although i heard somewhere that their reported problems are dropping more and more. And i beleive they beat out mazda last year? Don't quote me on this.

[The Toecutter]

It's not the Aveo's engine that kills its FE so much as it is its horrible aerodynamics. .35 drag coefficient, ~21.5 square foot frontal area(estimated from w x h x .8). This thing has the Cd*A about that of a Buick LaCrosse.

[rh77]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

Yeah the iron block of the american made cars just don't cut it when it comes to mileage.

The Chevy Aveo is actually a re-badged Daewoo. The Koreans are currently very guilty of Iron-block cars for cost.

RH77

[Compaq888]

Originally Posted by ketel0ne

I'll take my $12k 40mpg Yaris over anything in the list, in plugging in the Yaris actuals for 2007 it is over the Aveo.

I'll take my $5.5k 40mpg civic over the Yaris. I don't see the point in buying a new car.

[schmeep]

i read an article a few years back that had the toyota echo as the cheapest new car to own and maintain in canada.

[JanGeo]

The Echo is the VVTi engine in a not so stylish body - they got the economy right but the thing just didn't look right - too narrow and tall with tiny looking tires - of course I drive an xB which about half the people I know think it is pretty ugly.

[Compaq888]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

The Echo is the VVTi engine in a not so stylish body - they got the economy right but the thing just didn't look right - too narrow and tall with tiny looking tires - of course I drive an xB which about half the people I know think it is pretty ugly.

when my mom was choosing a car the choices were: TC, Xb, Civic, Yaris.

She didn't get the TC because it's a gas guzzler. For the Xb she said she is not going to be driving in a toaster(ROFL).

So it was between a Civic and Yaris. She chose the civic because of the safety features and the civic had more power.

[rh77]

Originally Posted by Compaq888

when my mom was choosing a car the choices were: TC, Xb, Civic, Yaris.

She didn't get the TC because it's a gas guzzler. For the Xb she said she is not going to be driving in a toaster(ROFL).

So it was between a Civic and Yaris. She chose the civic because of the safety features and the civic had more power.

So I was looking at fuel efficient cars at the AutoShow this past year. The Scion xA stood out as a nice efficient runabout. That was until I got in and saw that dad-blasted speedometer in the middle of the dash. I mean, WTF? The Saturn Ion suffered the same problem -- it was terrible!!! This can only turn off buyers, IMHO.

RH77

[ketel0ne]

Originally Posted by Compaq888

I'll take my $5.5k 40mpg civic over the Yaris. I don't see the point in buying a new car.

If you commuted over 600 miles a week you might.

[Compaq888]

Originally Posted by ketel0ne

If you commuted over 600 miles a week you might.

No I wouldn't. I feel comfortable in my civic to commute whereever. I take it that you drive mostly freeway since 600 is a big number. My car gets 43.9mpg at 70mph. Some new tires with max sidewall pressure and a new PCV system and it will be 45+mpg.

I saw too many advantages by buying a civic. There are a lot of engine swap choices. You could use many other honda parts from other hondas/acuras on the car and there are a more rim choice available.

[AlexK]

My friend bought a new Kia and was at 15,000 miles when I asked him how often he changes his oil. He said "oh, I guess I should probably start thinking about doing that soon". As far as I know he still hasn't done it.
One reason to buy a new car... you don't know how a used one was taken care of.

[JanGeo]

Originally Posted by rh77

So I was looking at fuel efficient cars at the AutoShow this past year. The Scion xA stood out as a nice efficient runabout. That was until I got in and saw that dad-blasted speedometer in the middle of the dash. I mean, WTF? The Saturn Ion suffered the same problem -- it was terrible!!! This can only turn off buyers, IMHO.

RH77

It takes getting used to but the passenger will like it in the middle of the dash because it is easy for them to see and tell you that you are speeding! One problem I just thought of is if you are not right eye dominant then you may not see the idiot lights when they come on. It also gives you room in front of you on the dash for other stuff like cell phone and gps navigation stuff sunglasses etc.

[JanGeo]

Originally Posted by AlexK

My friend bought a new Kia and was at 15,000 miles when I asked him how often he changes his oil. He said "oh, I guess I should probably start thinking about doing that soon". As far as I know he still hasn't done it.
One reason to buy a new car... you don't know how a used one was taken care of.

I have heard oil change stories like that before - the Prius I drove the other day needs the oil changed - she bought it used and may have had its oil changed just before she got it and I don't know how many miles she has driven it since she got it but the Maint light is on ALL the time now. Another great application for Synlube!

[ketel0ne]

Originally Posted by Compaq888

No I wouldn't. I feel comfortable in my civic to commute whereever. I take it that you drive mostly freeway since 600 is a big number. My car gets 43.9mpg at 70mph. Some new tires with max sidewall pressure and a new PCV system and it will be 45+mpg.

I saw too many advantages by buying a civic. There are a lot of engine swap choices. You could use many other honda parts from other hondas/acuras on the car and there are a more rim choice available.

I was comparing my new yaris to the new cars on the list. My used car is 1996 Geo metro I paid $1k for I would take that over all other used FE cars.

[JanGeo]

One of the most important things in life is LIVING where you WANT TO so that sometimes a commute of 50 miles is needed to get to that good job - the second most important thing in life that allows you to afford the home where you want to live.

[ketel0ne]

Originally Posted by theclencher

Anyone that commutes over 600 miles/week perhaps should consider a lifestyle change...

I don't think I will be moving any closer to a nuclear bomb target than I already do. The mountain seems to be a good line to keep away from DC. After Sept. 11th it was proof I needed to live further away. So now I just drive in, and work from home when I can. $140k for over an acre of land and a house on the river, vs. $500k to $1mil to live with no tree on top of my neighbor, I think the lifestyle is just fine.

[Wazabi Owner]

Originally Posted by ketel0ne

If you commuted over 600 miles a week you might.

I commute over 500 miles a week and now I don't see the need for a new car. I used to have that mindset where I had a better feeling driving something brandnew and not getting someone elses problems. Now I am just as happy driving an old-er car.

I do have my father nearby and we have a tow dolly as well as a car hauler/trailer if for some reason the car completely gives out and I can't do a limp repair to get it home. Driving an old-er car just helps me hone my mechanicing skills.

The choice to commute this far isn't regreted. Plenty happy - feels good to be in the country with the exception of when I catch those darn hunters on my property, but that's another thread......

[scostanz]

I commute over 670 miles per week and would never put that kind of mileage on a new car when there are plenty of older, cheaper, reliable cars around. If you are able to do the mechanical work yourself you're way ahead cost wise. I gave $2400 for my civic over two years ago and put 70,000 trouble free miles on it since. I figure it paid for itself in the first year when you consider the maintenance and FE savings over the Jeep Grand Cherokee I replaced it with. It could (and might ) blow up tomorrow and I'd still be way ahead over what it would cost for a new car when you figure in payments and depreciation.

-- Scott