95metro about to conduct ambitious (blind & controlled) acetone test - cancelled

[MetroMPG]

Documented on his web site:

http://www3.telus.net/metro/tests/acetone.htm

The only comment I suggested to him was to use a looping test route, rather than driving in only one direction on a sample (and back again for the next).

A looping, or bi-directional route will average out wind/grade effects. I'd be more skeptical of comparisons made between samples going in one direction against those going in the opposite direction.

[zpiloto]

I agree. It sounds like it will be a great test. I guess we need to see if he will let us add that to the busted or confirmed list. Any wagers on results?

[MetroMPG]

I'm wagering about a 5% variability between all the samples (including the controls), so NO evidence that acetone (or the other additives) is better or worse than the others.

You?

[zpiloto]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

I'm wagering about a 5% variability between all the samples (including the controls), so NO evidence that acetone (or the other additives) is better or worse than the others.

You?

I'm going to say no positive results also maybe even a slight decrease. His metro is already efficient. It seemed that those with FE measuring equipment saw no increase with the magical juice when tested.

[JanGeo]

It will make more improvement if he goes slow with light throttle.

[MetroMPG]

Mark cancelled the test. Running the car out of gas proved problematic, and inconsistent:

I had many kilometers of low-no power driving. It kept going by feathering the throttle, but if I asked for more it started to fade. I was worried about the fuel pump over-running and eventually destroying itself - especially after 12+ run-dry experiments. Plus, the car kept restarting every time it supposedly ran out and ran down once again.

Too bad, but still gets an "A" for ambition.

[SVOboy]

Marks too kool. Too bad it didn't work out.

[JanGeo]

You guys need to setup a 1 gallon jug for a fuel tank and run that inside the car with a valve to switch on the gas tank again. The issue is of course the fuel pump DUH!! which is in the tank so a pressurized tank or second pump is needed or some precise fuel metering gauge. The other problem is the fuel pressure regulator recirculates the over flow fuel back into the gas tank on some cars like the Geo - apparently not my xB.

[lane]

did he put WATER in his fuel tank???

[Ted Hart]

Originally Posted by zpiloto

I agree. It sounds like it will be a great test. I guess we need to see if he will let us add that to the busted or confirmed list. Any wagers on results?

Acetone in the gas? I assume this is the ratio often bandied about...~2 fluid oz per 10 gallons? Me? I use the stuff...& I don't see / feel much difference, but then again...not much of anything is not gonna make much difference! LOL !

I think (sometimes!) if we compare molecular weights here, we're not gonna see much mechanism for even the slightest delta! It all disappears (good or bad) in the "noise" of life! My tailpipe appears to be a little "cleaner", though. What means this subjective observation? Hmmm.... -Ted Hart

[Ted Hart]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

You guys need to setup a 1 gallon jug for a fuel tank and run that inside the car with a valve to switch on the gas tank again. The issue is of course the fuel pump DUH!! which is in the tank so a pressurized tank..

Mercy! A separate jug of gasoline (with a switch) in the car with you? A calibrated jug? Please, please don't hit anything! Or... have some clown hit you! ARGH! Fireball city! Will your glass melt? You betcha'! Will your ashes blow in the wind? You betcha'! ARGH! -Ted Hart (from a distance)

[JanGeo]

Originally Posted by Ted Hart

Mercy! A separate jug of gasoline (with a switch) in the car with you? A calibrated jug? Please, please don't hit anything! Or... have some clown hit you! ARGH! Fireball city! Will your glass melt? You betcha'! Will your ashes blow in the wind? You betcha'! ARGH! -Ted Hart (from a distance)

Augh come on now Ted - live a little!! Back in my Rambler days a 1 gallon glass jug on the front seat worked great - you could actually see the gas going down as you drove. I figured out then that a stop cost about a cup of gas to get going again. This was back in the early 70's when there were no air bags in cars. They used to show the gas economy tests on TV commercials with the clear jug on the hood or was it in the car? This is going back before you young kids.

Just because a cup of gasoline has the explosive force of a stick of TNT is no reason to Fear it ???

Hey I even wear my cell phone on my left hip right next to my left hand holding the gas nozzle when I fill up my car. RING BOOM!! LOL.

[JanGeo]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Mark cancelled the test. Running the car out of gas proved problematic, and inconsistent:
Too bad, but still gets an "A" for ambition.

GOD I would have told you not to run out of fuel because the first thing that happens when you get low is it starts to suck air from the tank and that makes the engine run really rough. Then the fuel spurts through the fuel lines and can blast junk in the lines right through the fuel filter element. Then the fuel pump is lubricated and cooled by the fuel going through it and in the case of the VW Rabbit the brushes of the fuel pump motor were supposed to be in fuel although I have a hard time believing that.

[Ted Hart]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

GOD I would have told you not to run out of fuel because the first thing that happens when you get low is it starts to suck air from the tank and that makes the engine run really rough. Then the fuel spurts through the fuel lines and can blast junk in the lines right through the fuel filter element. Then the fuel pump is lubricated and cooled by the fuel going through it and in the case of the VW Rabbit the brushes of the fuel pump motor were supposed to be in fuel although I have a hard time believing that.

I learned something (the hard way!) about in-tank electric fuel pumps...the liquid gasoline acts as a coolant for the pump! No gas (or, low gas repeatedly) will allow the pump to overheat- burning the windings out (they're just fine copper wires) on the field windings! I (now) never allow the gas gauge...sticky / inaccurate... get below the 1/4 marking! It beats walking!

[Ted Hart]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

Augh come on now Ted - live a little!! Back in my Rambler days a 1 gallon glass jug on the front seat worked great - you could actually see the gas going down as you drove.

This is going back before you young kids.

Just because a cup of gasoline has the explosive force of a stick of TNT is no reason to Fear it ???

Hey I even wear my cell phone on my left hip right next to my left hand holding the gas nozzle when I fill up my car. RING BOOM!! LOL.

We "young kids" used to do MPG checks in our '77 Gremlin (A Rambler?LOL) with a calibrated glass cylinder ... actually a large burette ... hanging from the right-side visor mount. Did you notice the huge volume of gas it took to idle?

Napalm is / was? made from mixing gasoline and flake laundry soap ("Kids!" Don't try this at home!). Did you ever slide across a car seat and touch the door handle? Zap! Better than a cell 'phone! LOL
Oh! "Young kids" didn't fight in SEA! Wanna see my medal??? -Ted Hart