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11-06-2005, 05:32 PM
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#1
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Using the distributor to create ozone
So, you're sposed to drill a hole in the distributor cap, run a tube from there somewhere downstream of the trottle body and make sure your distributor is vented. The spark in the distributor creates ozone and this ozone goes into the air fuel mixture and burns like hell, 15% plus increase I hear, anyone done it or wanna try it? I haven't seen any pictures of it yet, unfortunately.
<a href=http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?p=51577#post51577 target=_blank>Some discussion</a>
<a href=http://absoluteprelude.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t13874.html target=_blank>Prelude discussion</a>
<a href=http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=63733 target=_blank>Acura site, good basics</a> |
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11-06-2005, 06:08 PM
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#2
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FE nut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 1,193
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I'm not sure if this is
I'm not sure if this is where the origin of creating an ozone generator started, but here is a link to a thread on mpg research.
http://forum.mpgresearch.com/viewtopic.php?t=5&highlight=ozone I hope this is helpful. Maybe mpg Mike would have some pictures.
Larry
__________________
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how much of the wall you take with you.
2007 Prius,
  
Team Slow Burn
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11-06-2005, 06:18 PM
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#3
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Yep, that's the origin, I
Yep, that's the origin, I saw it a few weeks ago but forgot about it cuz it didn't make any sense at the time, right now, however, I'm think I've got it and if I can find another distributor cap I'll try it.
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11-06-2005, 06:47 PM
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#4
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Driving on E
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,993
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Wow
I think someone needs to try this. Maybe I'll get a spare cap at the junkyard the next time I go and see if I can construct one of these.
DiamondLarry if you can get a picture that would be awesome.
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11-06-2005, 06:50 PM
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#5
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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It's a piece of cake to make
It's a piece of cake to make I think, just the hole, a line from the hole t-ed into the intake (though I've also heard after the throttle body)
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11-06-2005, 06:52 PM
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#6
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Driving on E
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,993
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Re: It's a piece of cake to make
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Originally Posted by SVOboy
It's a piece of cake to make I think, just the hole, a line from the hole t-ed into the intake (though I've also heard after the throttle body)
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AFTER the throttle body? I'd hate to drill a hole in my intake manifold. Are you sure it wasn't BEFORE the throttle body?
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11-06-2005, 06:55 PM
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#7
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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I thought it was before,
I thought it was before, just someone said after all of a sudden and I was like, what the hell, I'm sure he mean before though.
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11-06-2005, 07:02 PM
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#8
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FE nut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 1,193
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I wish I could try this out
I wish I could try this out on my car. Since I don't have a distributor, I'll have see how it works out for you guys. I'll look into trying to get a picture.
__________________
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how much of the wall you take with you.
2007 Prius,
Team Slow Burn
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11-06-2005, 07:09 PM
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#9
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Driving on E
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,993
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Re: I wish I could try this out
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Originally Posted by diamondlarry
I wish I could try this out on my car. Since I don't have a distributor, I'll have see how it works out for you guys. I'll look into trying to get a picture.
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Uhm, saturns don't have distributors? Now I'm confused. |
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11-06-2005, 07:15 PM
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#10
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Yeah, me too.
Yeah, me too.
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11-06-2005, 07:25 PM
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#11
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FE nut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 1,193
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No. They only have
No. They only have coilpacks. Everything is driven by the ECU and sensors.
__________________
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how much of the wall you take with you.
2007 Prius,
Team Slow Burn
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11-06-2005, 07:32 PM
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#12
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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That's crazy! Wow, hmm, well
That's crazy! Wow, hmm, well that stinks for you, I guess, haha, even though you're kicking my *** in the mpg game, but I figure once I do my head swap I'll be up there if not winning.
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11-06-2005, 07:38 PM
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#13
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3 pedals>*
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,024
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Actually it's better to have
Actually it's better to have a distributeless car. Less crap that will break. Most new cars coming out are distributeless.
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11-06-2005, 07:38 PM
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#14
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3 pedals>*
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,024
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Actually it's better to have
Actually it's better to have a distributeless car. Less crap that will break. Most new cars coming out are distributeless.
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11-06-2005, 07:46 PM
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#15
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FE nut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 1,193
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My 1995 Neon was the same
My 1995 Neon was the same way. SVOboy: If you beat me, you gotta tell me how you do it 
__________________
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how much of the wall you take with you.
2007 Prius,
Team Slow Burn
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11-06-2005, 07:51 PM
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#16
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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If I beat you it'll be buy
If I beat you it'll be buy swapping heads, if you dunno what that means (I wouldn't if I didn't spend so much time on how to drive fast websites) it is basically like swapping the entire engine, because the block (bottom half) is basically the same anyway.
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11-06-2005, 07:54 PM
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#17
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FE nut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 1,193
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The good thing about this
The good thing about this website is that if you win, we all win :-) I used to do things like swapping heads on my old Rambler's but everything is so complicated nowadays compared to back then.
__________________
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how much of the wall you take with you.
2007 Prius,
Team Slow Burn
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11-06-2005, 07:57 PM
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#18
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Haha, that's true, I like
Haha, that's true, I like that view on things. Swapping heads on the honda ain't all the bad, a little bit, but I wanna do something else already that requires about the same work so I can double do it.
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11-06-2005, 10:17 PM
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#19
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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New link
I haven't read it
<a href=http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?p=51577#post51577 target=_blank>New link</a>
I haven't read it yet, just wanna get it out there.
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11-06-2005, 10:24 PM
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#20
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Another link
Haven't read
<a href=http://absoluteprelude.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t13874.html target=_blank>Another link</a>
Haven't read this either yet!
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11-06-2005, 10:33 PM
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#21
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Last one!
<a href=http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=63733 target=_blank>Last one!</a>
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11-07-2005, 12:33 AM
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#22
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Lisa is my new GF :-D
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 252
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i hate throw a wrench in the
i hate throw a wrench in the cam's here but if u have a line going to the dizzy and a vent line, isisnt that a major vacume leak? causing your car to run high idle?
and what is AFTER throtle? is that coming from airbox to motor or vice versa?
if u got vacume in your dizzy and a vent hole i'd be woried bout **** getting in the dizzy, causing it not to work (oil or water for ex.), or it getting dirty in dusty climates. maybie make the vent AFTER the filter and the vacume AFTER the throttle.
also the cap/rotor is designed not to spark. only if instaled impropaly do they. on this note maybe put some washer between the cap and dizzy on the mounting holes. my only consern would be water. :S
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11-07-2005, 01:53 PM
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#23
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FE nut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 1,193
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Here is some information
Here is some information about the ozone generator. This is the link:
http://fueleconomytips.com/content/view/59/30/
Almost Free Ozone Generator
Sunday, 06 November 2005
Ozone is 3 or more oxygen atoms combined into a single molecule. In its 2 atom state, oxygen gas is quite stable. It is fairly happy with life and isn’t looking for any changes. In the combustion process, it takes extreme pressures, temperatures, and even a spark to get it mad enough to get nasty with the fuel molecules in the combustion process. Ozone, on the other hand, is the big bully looking to pick a fight with anything or anybody that gets near it. Ozone is unstable in its ionic state and therefore is far more reactive with the fuel molecules. What this means is that a little bit of ozone in the combustion process lights things quicker, and burns hotter and more ferociously than oxygen alone. Ozone puts more power to the wheels on the same amount of fuel, or requires less fuel for the same amount of power.
There are a couple of methods of generating ozone, but if your engine has a distributor, it is already making enough ozone to have a positive impact on power and fuel economy. All we need to do is draw it from the distributor cap into the air induction system without creating other problems.
Vented CapIf your distributor cap is old enough that it needs to be replaced anyway, get a good one. Blue Streak, Echlin, MSD, and others use quality material for the cap itself, plus they use brass terminals instead of aluminum. You can find distributor caps online at Midway Auto Supply, or shop through the RebateZone portal and get %3 of your distributor price back from SHOP.com (Catalog City). In addition to the cap, you are going to need a length of plastic vacuum hose, the type used on most modern engines, long enough to go from your distributor cap to the throttle body (or carburetor) of your engine. It is approximately 3/32” in diameter. Junk yards will probably just give you the stuff. Even at the auto parts stores, it isn’t very expensive.
Required ToolsYou will also need some sort of “glue” to hold the plastic tubing in place. Pictured is anerobic sealer, but JB Weld is another good choice. You can use either a 3/32” drill bit, or a #24 bit. You may need a “T” to splice into an existing vacuum line if your vehicle doesn’t have a blocked manifold vacuum port.
Vented Distributor, not capThe distributor cap you choose must be vented, or the distributor must be vented. Both would be best. Without a vent, we will be putting the inside of the distributor cap under a vacuum. This will create 2 problems: first, it will tend to draw oil up through the shaft of the distributor, but secondly and most importantly, a vacuum inside the distributor cap will create such severe spark scatter that the engine will not run! I saw an engine barely run because the owner installed a non-vented distributor cap, even without drawing out the ozone. The vacuum was created by the PCV system putting vacuum in the crankcase, which migrated up the shaft of the distributor. That cap lasted less than 2 weeks before failure.
Hole opposite Vent
Tube is FlushWe want to drill our 3/32” hole in our distributor cap opposite the vent (see picture). This will allow a crossflow, where fresh air is drawn in through the vent, and ozone is pulled out through our plastic vacuum line. With the hole drilled, apply a thin coating of sealer to the end of the vacuum line and insert it into the cap flush with the inside of the cap. If the cap is 1/16” thick, insert the line 1/16” deep. Allow your sealer to dry and set as per the directions on the product.
Once the “glue” is dry, install your new distributor cap. The vacuum line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum for best results. Many vehicles have a vacuum block where all of the accessories draw their vacuum. This would be the easiest place to put your vacuum line. If your engine doesn’t have such a block, look for a nipple with a cap over it on the throttle body and install the vacuum line there. Check to be sure you have vacuum at idle. If you are still coming up empty, then you’ll need to “T” into an existing line. The following are a few acceptable sources of vacuum: fuel pressure regulator, map sensor, PCV hose, or any solenoid, switch, gizmo, or gadget that sees vacuum all of the time.
That’s it! You’re all done. I went from 33 to 38 mpg on an ’83 Dodge Rampage, 18 to 23 mpg on a ’91 Ford Ranger, 12 to 13 mpg on a ’73 Plymouth Road Runner, and 21 to 24 mpg on a Chevy Astro. Part throttle torque is also improved, as is idle quality and cold start driveability.
Ready to Install
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__________________
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how much of the wall you take with you.
2007 Prius,
Team Slow Burn
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11-07-2005, 02:49 PM
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#24
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 1,615
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Obviously this mod was not
Obviously this mod was not done on a speed density FI system, because if it was, the post throttle plate location for the vacuum source would cause an idle surge on a speed density FI system. The problem caused with a MAS FI system is not an increased idle, but a lean condition, because the air drawn in through the distributor is post MAS sensor [if post throttle plate] and not accounted for when calculating how much fuel to inject. I'm wondering if the increase in mileage is not from the o3 but from the slightly leaner condition caused by the 'vacuum leak' on the MAS FI system.
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11-07-2005, 03:03 PM
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#25
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Driving on E
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,993
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Re: Obviously this mod was not
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaX
Obviously this mod was not done on a speed density FI system, because if it was, the post throttle plate location for the vacuum source would cause an idle surge on a speed density FI system. The problem caused with a MAS FI system is not an increased idle, but a lean condition, because the air drawn in through the distributor is post MAS sensor [if post throttle plate] and not accounted for when calculating how much fuel to inject. I'm wondering if the increase in mileage is not from the o3 but from the slightly leaner condition caused by the 'vacuum leak' on the MAS FI system.
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I was actually thinking the exact same thing...
well, not exactly, but something close to it.
It seems that this works well with carborated engines, but carborated engines have a lot of room to grow. FI engines do not have that much room to grow.
That being said, I'm wondering if this will work on a Honda DPFI b/c it is nothing more than a "glorified carb." |
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11-07-2005, 03:06 PM
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#26
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 1,615
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Re: Obviously this mod was not
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Matt Timion
I'm wondering if this will work on a Honda DPFI b/c it is nothing more than a "glorified carb."
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Honda DPFI is still a speed density system - if the vacuum is sourced post throttle plate, the 'leak' from the vented distributor cap will cause an increase in idle RPM. |
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11-07-2005, 04:57 PM
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#27
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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Quote:Went ahead and
Quote:
Went ahead and refilled due to the lower gas prices and due to installing the ozone input setup.
Drove only about 1/2 the usual miles (165) before a fillup...but got my best mpg yet at 31...all around.
Previous best was 28.5 last summer after installing magnets and stopping the use of acetone...still had less than 1 oz per 10 G in the tank for this gain.
This last tank was supposed to be a test for this condition...except for the fact that I had some Coleman's and Maxpower oil in the mix....but had set up the ozone...so I terminated this test.
So the 31 mpg result is from either the lower amount of acetone plus very little Coleman's/Maxpower oil or the ozone or BOTH. I'd guess it's mostly the ozone.
31 mpg represents a 32% gain on a possibly too high baseline...we got us a WEINER.
I'd recommend drawing the air into the dist from the top of the engine and towards the back of it using a small fuel filter on the end of a vac tube...this would lessen the chance of drawing in humid air. And as the engine cools off...there should be little difference from stock as far as condensation problems.
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This guy has a fuel injected 93 caravan, I think, by the way, he just did his system like two days ago when I first posted this. |
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11-07-2005, 10:55 PM
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#28
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*shrug*
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,406
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DrDisco69 has told me he's
DrDisco69 has told me he's gonna do this on his car since he's got a spare dizzy, I'm looking forward to seeing it, especially since I have the same engine and everything as he.
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12-13-2005, 07:43 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 2,379
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Any update on this?
I'm thinking of replacing the distributor cap soon and wondered if anyone out there tried this Ozone generator idea.
Another thought -- my home HEPA filter fan has a switch on it to create ozone (attracting dust particles more readily) -- I never use it because of the negative side effects of filling a room with ozone.
Can a device (not a complicated Tesla coil, like in some examples) but a simple ozone generator be hooked up (I assume an inverter would be required).
Also, it isn't clear -- can the ozone be injected before the air filter, or tapped post-filter into the vaccum system like the brake booster line?
RH77
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12-13-2005, 09:54 PM
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#30
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Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 50
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As Ozone is very oxidizing
As Ozone is very oxidizing and unstable: Wouldn't it prematurely ignite the fuel during compression stroke ?
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