Electric water pump

[bzipitidoo]

Seeing some of the posts about putting in a hotter thermostat, why not just go to an electric water pump? http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/elecpump.htm They boast it can deliver an additional 20 HP. Wouldn't need a thermostat.

This was one of the things a move to a 42V standard for automotive electrical systems was supposed to give the world: electric everything.

[skewbe]

FYI, 20hp is certainly not anywhere what a typical commuter car on a typical commute would gain. Their biggest pump only draws 150 watts which is about 1/5 HP.

Actually an engine driven water (and oil) pump makes a lot of sense. It's a low loss transmission of energy to the pump and they only need to be turning when the engine is working anyway. More oils and water is also usually needed at higher rpms too.

Power steering pumps and AC pumps on the other hand do not have this serindiptuous relationship with RPM. Of course eliminating these entirely is a step towards better gas savings, but some efficiencies can be had by not turning them in direct proportion to the engine rpm. One of the ways to do that is with an electric motor.

It is much more "lossy" to turn the alternator to turn a motor to turn the pump than it is to just turn the pump, so with power steering it is more efficient to eliminate the hydraulic system and have an electric assist.

AC, I dunno, peltier junctions v/s motor driven compressor I recon, I think I read about a wobble plate arrangement around here recently also.

[Ryland]

If you get the kit that has the variable speed pump/controler, then I could see how it would be rather affective, I wouldn't want to compleatly turn off the water pump, because of how the temp sensers are not alwas located in an area that has coolent naturaly flowing past them.
the biggest advantage of course with an electric water pump is going to be with engines that run at higher speeds, like in racing conditions.

[Compaq888]

Imagine electric power steering, electric water pump and electric valves. My 106hp motor will probably make 130hp.

[Red]

Going for electric power steering shouldn't be hard for most of you guys due to weight. Use a power steering pump off of a MK2 MR2. If it can steer an XJ around, should work fine with Civics and Geos

http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/convpgs/psteer.php

[SVOboy]

Originally Posted by Compaq888

Imagine electric power steering, electric water pump and electric valves. My 106hp motor will probably make 130hp.

I doubt it would, but then again, I wonder how electric valves would work.

[TomO]

The thing I'm wondering is: with all the added electronics to the car, wouldn't you need a higher amp Alternator (depending upon model of car) and therefore wouldn't that produce more load on the motor? I guess one would have to sit and crunch some numbers given the nominal amp draw on said devices.

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by Red

Going for electric power steering shouldn't be hard for most of you guys due to weight. Use a power steering pump off of a MK2 MR2. If it can steer an XJ around, should work fine with Civics and Geos

http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/convpgs/psteer.php

Wow... I wish I had known about this pump when I was still working on the FrakenCivic. It definately would have been a fun project (and would have saved me the hassle of making sure the crank pulley was the correct one for the power steering pump).

[Ron22]

What about the efficiency of the alternator and electric motor? With a current water pump you motor is turning a pump. With an electirc you are turnning the alternator with maybe 90% efficiency then running an electric motor with maybe 90% efficiency.
The only way I see it being a gain is if you could run the pump at a lower output (this pump claims this) or turn it off when not needed.

[Sludgy]

IMHO, any water pump is a terrible idea that wastes gas. Hot water rises. If you mount a radiator ABOVE the engine, it would create a thermosiphon that would move coolant due to density difference.

I never have quite figured out why almost all car manufacturers mount radiators in front of the engine where it creates drag and needs a water pump.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Sludgy

IMHO, any water pump is a terrible idea that wastes gas. Hot water rises. If you mount a radiator ABOVE the engine, it would create a thermosiphon that would move coolant due to density difference.

I never have quite figured out why almost all car manufacturers mount radiators in front of the engine where it creates drag and needs a water pump.

Perhaps the flow rate isn't high enough for sufficient cooling?

[bzipitidoo]

John Deere tractors from the 1950s and earlier did not have water pumps. They relied on convection to move the water. The problem was the water passages had to be much larger. The upper radiator hose eventually reached a diameter of somewhere around 4 inches(!) before John Deere threw in the towel and added a water pump.

Another proposal was to run on methanol. Methanol burns at a much lower temperature, so an engine specially designed for methanol would not need a typical water cooling setup. Air cooling is sufficient. Of course, there are old Beetles, with their air cooled engines in the rear. I recall vagulely that it worked, but shortened the engine's life.