So I wear a flame retardent suite on other forums

[lovemysan]

Here's a recent post in a thread I responded to.

"Not buying it.

The Car weighs 2350 lbs minimum, thats a SOHC with cloth seats, and no people. The Coeffecient of aeordynamic drag is good, very good, and car is low to the ground with a very small frontal area. Still, it takes a given fixed amount of energy, HP, to move the car at legal sppeds, the EPA uses 65 mph. They max at 40 or 41 mpg. You can't beat that with carefull data collection and be believable. It isnt valid. One tank, maybe, you had a tailwind or drafted a truck. You cant average 50 mpg. If you can, then go work for NASA. You are splitting and re-combining hydrogen compounds in a way unknown to science. The Saturn is very efficient, but no car since the 3 cyl Suzuki, nee geo metro and the tiniest 2nd gen Honda Civic Hatchback got over 50 mpg. They had 65 and maybe 80 HP, respectively, and weigh well under 2000 lbs, and had real skinny tires.

Your figures are in error, or you also have a 100 mpg carbuator for your Dodge Dart that Detroit's black helicopters are trying to recollect and recover since 1972......"


this person is trying to spread ignorance in its purest form. There are a few informed people over there though

Here's a link to the thread. It doesn't get interesting until I get accused of being a poser though.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99272

[MnFocus]

Like an addict or alcoholic ,you can't help the unwilling ...

[thisisntjared]

what a tool bag.

what forum is that from? some saturn forum?? he obviously doesnt know anything about hondas.

[Silveredwings]

Anyone with that much 'confidence' that you're wrong ought to be willing to put his money where his ignorance is. It might be worth a shot. I don't know.

[diamondlarry]

I just suited up with you lovemysan. They should really freak out after they see my numbers. I just posted my results to see what they will say.

[MnFocus]

You know they'll call ya a liar too! can't hardly do "Liar liar pants on fire " in a flame suit now ! That ain't no fun

[diamondlarry]

Originally Posted by MnFocus

You know they'll call ya a liar too! can't hardly do "Liar liar pants on fire " in a flame suit now ! That ain't no fun

I'm ready for them. I'll make them the same offer that he did; to come over and prove to them in person if it's not too far away.

[thisisntjared]

it seems like its on the noob that doesnt know anything. tell him to check the stats on this site... like the top 10mpg.

[Silveredwings]

If I could be bothered registering for that site I'd have to tell 'em they're idiots. You see, they don't want to believe you guys, because it'd suck all the hot air our of their little worlds.

[rh77]

Originally Posted by MnFocus

you can't help the unwilling ...

Exactly. People have to have an open-mind for this stuff. If not, then they're not going to get it no matter what you do.

When they want the help, Hypermilers will be there.

It isn't "NASA Rocket Science" as the skeptic mentioned -- it's elementary math.

RH77

[diamondlarry]

Originally Posted by Silveredwings

If I could be bothered registering for that site I'd have to tell 'em they're idiots. You see, they don't want to believe you guys, because it'd suck all the hot air our of their little worlds.

Oh no, I may have inadvertantly dropped an H-bomb on their little worlds.

[thisisntjared]

i cant believe i am getting worked up about this without registering on that site.

what the is dragon motorsports anyway? that guy is dumb too.

[zpiloto]

Originally Posted by lovemysan

Here's a recent post in a thread I responded to.

"Not buying it.

The Car weighs 2350 lbs minimum, thats a SOHC with cloth seats, and no people. The Coeffecient of aeordynamic drag is good, very good, and car is low to the ground with a very small frontal area. Still, it takes a given fixed amount of energy, HP, to move the car at legal sppeds, the EPA uses 65 mph. They max at 40 or 41 mpg. You can't beat that with carefull data collection and be believable. It isnt valid. One tank, maybe, you had a tailwind or drafted a truck. You cant average 50 mpg. If you can, then go work for NASA. You are splitting and re-combining hydrogen compounds in a way unknown to science. The Saturn is very efficient, but no car since the 3 cyl Suzuki, nee geo metro and the tiniest 2nd gen Honda Civic Hatchback got over 50 mpg. They had 65 and maybe 80 HP, respectively, and weigh well under 2000 lbs, and had real skinny tires.

Your figures are in error, or you also have a 100 mpg carbuator for your Dodge Dart that Detroit's black helicopters are trying to recollect and recover since 1972......"


this person is trying to spread ignorance in its purest form. There are a few informed people over there though

Here's a link to the thread. It doesn't get interesting until I get accused of being a poser though.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99272

Actually I think you may have a convert. Just went through the posts on the forum and it looks like you can send them to the GS dark side. You handle yourself very well and were positive the whole time. Nice hypermiling diplomacy.

[slurp812]

The world is full of people like that. I would have told him, go ahead, and keep paying for more gas than you need. They laughed at the Wright brothers too, until they saw if fly...

[SonnyD]

As a member over at the forum where you posted your info. Lovemysan, that's how I found this place. yeah, there are a bunch of, I'll refrain from calling them Idiots, but there are people over there that absolutely believe they know everything. I've been told by a bunch of them over there that I was wrong when I posted about a mileage improvement when switching to Royal Purple. Well I keep pretty good records, I also drive the same route to and from work each day, each week, and note the temperatures of the day. But they "obviously" know more then me, the person keeping the records. If you watch and read very much over there, a lot of the know it alls, are under 25 years old. Nothing wrong with "youngsters" , but the way some of them talk, it sounds like they been doing this stuff forever.
I don't post alot of there most of the time because so many of them call BS on anything they don't understand or know about. Well, I need to check out the rest of this forum!

Regards Sonny

[kwtorbe]

Wow...those are some really ignorant and close minded car enthusiasts.

I'm sorry you got lit up like that. At least there are some good people left in the world here at gassavers....

[zpiloto]

Originally Posted by SonnyD

As a member over at the forum where you posted your info. Lovemysan, that's how I found this place. yeah, there are a bunch of, I'll refrain from calling them Idiots, but there are people over there that absolutely believe they know everything. I've been told by a bunch of them over there that I was wrong when I posted about a mileage improvement when switching to Royal Purple. Well I keep pretty good records, I also drive the same route to and from work each day, each week, and note the temperatures of the day. But they "obviously" know more then me, the person keeping the records. If you watch and read very much over there, a lot of the know it alls, are under 25 years old. Nothing wrong with "youngsters" , but the way some of them talk, it sounds like they been doing this stuff forever.
I don't post alot of there most of the time because so many of them call BS on anything they don't understand or know about. Well, I need to check out the rest of this forum!

Regards Sonny

What kind of results did you have with Royal Purple and what were you running before the switch? Welcome to the site.

[lovemysan]

Originally Posted by zpiloto

Actually I think you may have a convert. Just went through the posts on the forum and it looks like you can send them to the GS dark side. You handle yourself very well and were positive the whole time. Nice hypermiling diplomacy.

Well, I give most everyone the benefit of doubt. I use a simple formula. Don't exaggerate, state only verifiable facts, be willing to prove it personally. You can't be anymore up front than that. But to say that certain things are impossible despite, mathematical proof of the opposite is silly. I also enjoy watching people get flustered about silly stuff, not in a cruel since of course. However, I did enjoy saying

"I could get 10% over epa in YOUR car"

lol

[lovemysan]

Originally Posted by SonnyD

As a member over at the forum where you posted your info. Lovemysan, that's how I found this place. yeah, there are a bunch of, I'll refrain from calling them Idiots, but there are people over there that absolutely believe they know everything. I've been told by a bunch of them over there that I was wrong when I posted about a mileage improvement when switching to Royal Purple. Well I keep pretty good records, I also drive the same route to and from work each day, each week, and note the temperatures of the day. But they "obviously" know more then me, the person keeping the records. If you watch and read very much over there, a lot of the know it alls, are under 25 years old. Nothing wrong with "youngsters" , but the way some of them talk, it sounds like they been doing this stuff forever.
I don't post alot of there most of the time because so many of them call BS on anything they don't understand or know about. Well, I need to check out the rest of this forum!

Regards Sonny

remember the infamous "dave ramsey thread/credit card" thread. I did get a little worked up about that one but, oh well, I guess they'll learn the hard way.

[SonnyD]

zpiloto, I've used Castrol GTX 5W30 since the car was new. After I retired, I got a part time job and it just so happened to be in the auto parts profession. I started buying Royal Purple number 1 because I loved it after I switched to it in my motorcycle.. Second reason is I get a pretty good deal on it. It's still not cheap, but way better then retail. I started out as I said usuing it in my motorcycle, which is a 1998 Suzuki TLR 1000, it's a V-Twin, dual fuel injectors in each line....and very Gas Hungry! Also having a full fairing it runs pretty warm if you have to set and idle very long. I've also owned it since new and always used Suzuki brand V-twin oil in it 10W40 which is recommended. First thing I noticed after changing it was after I stopped after a 6 mile run. The bike was now idling about 300 rpm higher then before. It also never quite got as hot on the road, Normal is about 182-184 while riding and it is now running about 180-182. I've never done a mileage test on it with the oil since it's just too hard for me in town to be consistent with the throttle and stops. I havn't taken any road trip since changing to do a good evaluation. It also made the transmission a little smoother shifting.
In the car I can't say about temperature, since it is a regular guage, unlike the bike which is digital read out. But my fuel mileage has increased 1-2 mpg. I also run the Royal Purple in 5W30. I still don't do extended change intervals, I still change oil at 3000 miles.

lovemysan.........yeah, I definitely remember the Dave Ramsey thread

Regards Sonny

[jwxr7]

I have had problems at another site with my "unbelievable mileage" too. One guy did everything except call me a liar. Here are exerpts from a mileage thread at another site.

I think we ALL need to use the same gas pump Jamie uses!
(it's the easiest way to get more mpg)

I think you CAN get that mpg. With alot of techniques that, for example, Darin does at http://www.metrompg.com/
But I don't think you DO -assuming you are using accurate pumps and calculations.

Your numbers are about 20mpg higher "average" than I ever got (being somewhat light-footed using mostly freeway driving).
If using the a/c, it loses another 5mpg -to about 41mpg.

Darin's is a two door and yours is the 4 door model?
If true, that makes it even harder to believe.

Main thing is have fun with whatever mpg it is actually getting.
Pres

I think it is sad when people think that just because we are getting #s so much higher than epa (or them), that we must be full of s#!t . What matters most is that we know everytime we fill up (more like, don't have to fill up) that we are saving gas, money and the environment .

[landspeed]

I've got my flame retardant suit ordered and will enter the fray at the
weekend! I'm sure they will love my getting high figures in my old, primitive
Bluebird

P.S. I haven't look at that thread, but if someone says

'An engine is 10-20% efficient when cruising along, and also becomes
less efficient during hard accleration, both conditions occur a lot in the
EPA tests'

'You can get up to 30-40% efficiency by keeping the engine in the right
load/RPM ranges when you drive, so doubling your EPA figures'...

And then just posts a couple of BSFC curves, then how can they argue with
basic science?

[Gary Palmer]

My only comment is that when you make your posts, try to explain what you have done to validate what you are "claiming". I find where I have difficulty is when someone makes what seem to be all inclusive statements or observations, based on something, but without really documenting where, how, why, how long, or a whole lot of other issues which I have encountered in some of my own experimenting. If you can give the readers a fair sense of the reasonablness and validity of your data sources and conclusions, if can go a long way towards helping to establish a basis of reasonablness.

At the same time, their are probably going to always be some people who won't believe something, so they won't try something. Oh well, ignorance and arrogance have sucky consequences. Their losses.

[lovemysan]

In most cases I produce ample documentation. Here I may or may not have. I've posted my information before on SF.

I got into a huge argument on altimas.net about some things I did in my brothers car. They basically said I was causing pumping errors.

[thisisntjared]

i found out what it is. testosterone defficiency.

their cars are not fast, so they need to find some kind of redeeming value in their cars fuel economy. if anyone were to give proof that they dont get amazing fuel economy then it would show that their penises were small. thus, if they oppose what you say then nobody has to know of their .... disadvantage.

[repete86]

Lol. I wonder what he would say if he saw my numbers with a heavier automatic midsized?

[Wazabi Owner]

I'd like to know about this thread - but I don't need to join a Saturn group as **chances are** I probably won't own another Saturn again, but you never know.

Anyway, what was the thread about. PM me if you think it would ignite a heated discussion here though I think most people are a bit more open minded with the exception of one thing (which I have never mentioned and never will). I'm dying to know though as I'm a HUGE Dave fan and owe some (not all) of his methods to why I am not living in a cruddier trailer today. Oh, I don't quite believe in chunking all the cards but I can understand someone who does and can understand their reasoning.

Originally Posted by lovemysan

remember the infamous "dave ramsey thread/credit card" thread. I did get a little worked up about that one but, oh well, I guess they'll learn the hard way.

[SonnyD]

Actually, I think I might have been the first one to mention Dave Ramsey in that thread there. I actually can't quite remember how the thread started. I think someone mentioned that they had just gotten a new credit card, and with the "Fantastic" deal the card company had offered them, that "it would be like they were giving me FREE money".......or something like that.
Either I mentioned or someone else mentioned Dave, and talked about his teachings, and it almost got Violent over there. There were about 4 or 5 of us battling most of them. You would have thought we'd have "insulted their mother" or something by the way some of them attacked us. It actually got pretty funny. I did a search and I couldn't find the post over there anymore.
Some people really like their "Debt Cards: over there. Of course they have the same arguments of " I always pay my bill as soon as it comes and I get bonus points" and all the other stuff. No one ever thinks they'll have a downfall in their job or an illness, most of them never realize if something unexpected comes up....that the Sharks will be circling.
Regards Sonny

[psyshack]

I read thru that thread. Seems a lot like one Im in at 8thgencivic.com. The world is truly in a world of hurt with so much miss information and such bad drivers.

So much fear mongering, and so many excuses. They just seem to love big oil and opec. And the reach arounds they get.

psy