SuperMID M1, MPG Computer

[krousdb]

I had mentioned earlier that I was looking for a mileage computer for my del Sol. What I didn't mention is that I had one for my Prius for an event that I partipated in last summer. It is called the SuperMid. This is a very long thread but you can see some pictures of the device when we reported mileage after each shift.

Why did I need a mileage computer for the Prius when it already has one???? Well, we were able to exceed the 99.9 MPG limit. The SuperMID shows km/l up to 99.9, which translates to 235 MPG.

http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/prius-ii-100-mpg-marathon-attempt-live-updates.3041.html?page=1&pp=10&highlight=marathon

I sent the SuperMID back home to my friend Yoshi in Japan, but I just got a message from him that the same device will work on my del Sol. I just need to calibrate it by changing the parameters for fuel injection duration and distance values. So it is back on it's way to Pittsburgh as soon as he makes some mods to it. I expect it by the end of the month. In the mean time I just need to locate the speed sensor and injector wires to tap into. And since I am in no danger of exceeding 99.9 MPG, I will calibrate to miles per gallon instead of km/l. The labels will still read km/l however.

Cool stuff. I will post install pics and data when I get the SuperMid

[Matt Timion]

Awesome. I wrote the company that makes the oztrip asking if I could buy either a kit or an assembled unit. Their response was that the oztrip computer is no longer in production and that they were working on a new model. This new model, however, will not be completed for a very long time, they say.

Hopefully the SuperMID M1 will be a good replacement, as I *neeed* a mpg readout.

[Matt Timion]

Upon further reading it appears that the SuperMID m-1 is made for the prius. I'd be interested in knowing how it can be converted to an obd1 honda car such as yours, as all of the posts I've read indicate that the program is written based on Prius constants (fuel pressure, etc.)

Maybe I can still coax flatland2d into making a mpg display.

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

Upon further reading it appears that the SuperMID m-1 is made for the prius. I'd be interested in knowing how it can be converted to an obd1 honda car such as yours, as all of the posts I've read indicate that the program is written based on Prius constants (fuel pressure, etc.)

Maybe I can still coax flatland2d into making a mpg display.

Matt,
There are two calibration parameters, one for fuel and one for speed. Calibrating the speedo/odo is as simple as going for a drive on the highway and counting mile posts. Just scale the distance parameter to calibrate. For the fuel, Just run a tank through and compare what the computer says to how many gallons you pumped. Then scale the fuel parameter. This is the same way that the oztrip works too.

[Matt Timion]

How much does one cost? Where can i order it?

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

How much does one cost? Where can i order it?

I'm not sure if he is selling them yet. I will check.

[DaX]

Originally Posted by krousdb

as simple as going for a drive on the highway and counting mile posts.

I've often been curious how accurate this is. Does anyone know the precision of mile posts? Is it 1 foot, 10 feet, 100 feet?

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Calibrate you speedometer and then check it out with a stop watch,

I am also very interested in this, need to buy a damn DMM so I can do your set up first though. Inaaccurate NJ pumping is killing me.

I have found that mile posts are very accurate over long distances. I have tested this in many states on many interstate highways and have always gotten very close results with the same car. I have tested the Prius on 100 mile stretches of the PA turnpike, OH turnpike, New York, Indy Turnpike and some state routes in the Carolinas. Sure, if you do a test for 10 miles you could be off because there is an obsticle where the marker post should be so they move it a few feet. But over 100 miles or even 50 miles, over many different roads, my Prius odo would show within +/- 0.2% of the mile posts. I just do it as a habit on long drives. Something to keep me from falling asleep.

Now the speedo thing might not be quite as accurate. First, don't necessarily assume that the speedo accuracy is equal to the odo accuracy. For digital speed readouts like prius, both use the same speed signal and display digitally so they should be the same. But with analog speedo/odo like my del sol, because there are two analog devices that use a common speed signal, you have some error that could occur. The needle could hang a little or be heavier from one car to the next. I have found that with the Outback and the del Sol, the speedo is lower than the odo, by about 1 MPH. Probably err to the low side for legal reasons.

I use the stopwatch method that you suggested for speedo calibration but it is much more difficult because you have to keep it on 60 and cruise ain't perfect. If you have hills or traffic, you are likely not to maintain 60 for very long. I have a 28 mile of flat state route in SC that I test speedos on. Perfectly flat and no traffic so cruise can give good results. It will be hard to test the del Sol down there. No cruise and it's hard to get the family of 4, a dog and vacation gear all in the del Sol.

The other method of speedo calibration is to drive by one of those speed signs that they place out every once in awhile to warn people to slow down. Problem with those is that they seem to be off by quite a bit.


I'm rambling now.....

[Matt Timion]

FYI, your del sol uses a digital VSS, so you can easily switch to a digital speedometer if you want to.

[Matt Timion]

Just received an email from Yoshi. He is saying that he might be able to assemble one for me after we find out how it works in your Del Sol.

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

Just received an email from Yoshi. He is saying that he might be able to assemble one for me after we find out how it works in your Del Sol.

Yes,
I heard the same from him today. He also said.....

Originally Posted by Yoshi

The Toyota Tech Manual says the injector spec is between 36 to 46cc
in 15 sec, which means about 164cc/min. However, my Prius measurement
result is 222cc. The default fuel parameter is 13515 to meet Prius.
Anyway, the fuel parameter can be set about plus/minus 50% of above.
I believe you'll be able to find the best parameter using the current
+/- 50% range.

Your 240cc is just a spec value, and I believe the actual may be varied.
Good solution is that drive a tank, then fill up.
Calc the real mileage, then compare to the displayed value.
Then, adjust the parameter referring to the bottom of attached PDF file
which was sent to you last summer.
Anyway, I believe you don't need an absolute mileage value, but
a relative value comparing your driving styles will be enough. :-)

Regarding to distance parameter, the default 2572 value should
be right on if you wear a standard size of tires. It's the industrial
standard.

I have a pdf file that explains the features and calibration parameters. I just don't know how to post it.

[krousdb]

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1883/m1menueng7of.jpg

SuperMID Functions and calibration detail. I had to convert to jpeg before the service would accept it. The pdf is much clearer.

[krousdb]

The SuperMID set up for the Prius has a distance parameter value of 2572. If you divide by 3, you get 857. The Prius OEM tire has 855 revs per mile. So my guess is that the Prius speed sensor sends out 3 pulses per revolution. Can anyone tell me if the Honda speed sensors have the same 3 pulses per revolution? If so, since my tires are 840 revs per mile, I will set the parameter to 2520.

[DaX]

Originally Posted by krousdb

The SuperMID set up for the Prius has a distance parameter value of 2572. If you divide by 3, you get 857. The Prius OEM tire has 855 revs per mile. So my guess is that the Prius speed sensor sends out 3 pulses per revolution. Can anyone tell me if the Honda speed sensors have the same 3 pulses per revolution? If so, since my tires are 840 revs per mile, I will set the parameter to 2520.

In the OBD training manuals I sent you, I think this is outlined.

[Yoshi]

Hello all from Japan.
Thank you for your interest in my SuperMID.

Originally Posted by krousdb

The SuperMID set up for the Prius has a distance parameter value of 2572. If you divide by 3, you get 857. The Prius OEM tire has 855 revs per mile. So my guess is that the Prius speed sensor sends out 3 pulses per revolution. Can anyone tell me if the Honda speed sensors have the same 3 pulses per revolution? If so, since my tires are 840 revs per mile, I will set the parameter to 2520.

The revolution standard is some what different.
Let's imagine an old mechanical speedometer driven by wire cable.
The industrial standard is 637 revolution for 1km drive.
Hopefully, Honda uses the same standard.

Prius sends 4 pulses per the cabe revolution, which means about 39.25 cm/pulse. ( 100,000 cm / (637 * 4 ) )
The SuperMID M-1 wants 0.01km(10m) resolution, then I programmed it as follows...
A 16bit register accumulates "some value" until it overflowed(value becomes 65536 or over), then increment the 10m memory data. We need 25.48 pulses for 10m drive. ( 1000 cm / 39.25 cm )
The "some value" is 65536 / 25.48 = 2572.

So, please forget to compare the tire sizes between Prius and del sol.
Please compare between standard and your tire on del sol, or it is better to calibrate the display value using your favorite miles-post method.

Regards,
Yoshi

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by Yoshi

Hello all from Japan.
Thank you for your interest in my SuperMID.

The revolution standard is some what different.
Let's imagine an old mechanical speedometer driven by wire cable.
The industrial standard is 637 revolution for 1km drive.
Hopefully, Honda uses the same standard.

Prius sends 4 pulses per the cabe revolution, which means about 39.25 cm/pulse. ( 100,000 cm / (637 * 4 ) )
The SuperMID M-1 wants 0.01km(10m) resolution, then I programmed it as follows...
A 16bit register accumulates "some value" until it overflowed(value becomes 65536 or over), then increment the 10m memory data. We need 25.48 pulses for 10m drive. ( 1000 cm / 39.25 cm )
The "some value" is 65536 / 25.48 = 2572.

So, please forget to compare the tire sizes between Prius and del sol.
Please compare between standard and your tire on del sol, or it is better to calibrate the display value using your favorite miles-post method.

Regards,
Yoshi

Yoshi, Glad to see you here! I will probably leave the default value and change it after 50 miles on my trip odometer. I can get it close anyway. Then I will do the milepost calibration. I can hardly wait!

[Matt Timion]

mile post calibration may be the best bet for me. My tires are not the stock size, so my odometer/speedometer is not 100% accurate, although it is within error.

Maybe another possible solution is to drive a certain distance with a handheld GPS unit that is accurate within a few feet and then use the distance displayed there.

[DaX]

Whichever method you use [milepost or GPS], be sure to keep in mind that the more markers you pass, the more accurate your results due to the law of averaging.

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by DaX

Whichever method you use [milepost or GPS], be sure to keep in mind that the more markers you pass, the more accurate your results due to the law of averaging.

Very true. I might have access to GPS equipment soon that is made to have accuracy of .05 feet, which is less than an inch. If there is the right software to calculate distance and speed, then I'll be set for calibration.

[krousdb]

Good from Yoshi today. He said that he hoped to have the M1 finished over the weekend and send it to me on Monday. It should be here 6-10 after that. I can't wait!

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Fo sheezy?

Fo Shizzle!

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Are you allowed to say how much it cost you cuz I can say that I'm wanting to get one of these kewl things!?

I can't say right now. After my BETA test we will work out a price.

[Matt Timion]

I actually had an elaborate daydream about this computer yesterday. I managed to find a black plastic case for it, and then mounted it on my dashboard with something that resembles a surround sound speaker mount. I ran the wires through the dashboard down to the ECU.

It was really cool.

Needless to say, I'm excited.

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

I actually had an elaborate daydream about this computer yesterday. I managed to find a black plastic case for it, and then mounted it on my dashboard with something that resembles a surround sound speaker mount. I ran the wires through the dashboard down to the ECU.

It was really cool.

Needless to say, I'm excited.

A true gassaver, daydreaming of fuel saving enabler devices. Do you dream of such things at night also? Does your wife think you are nuts? My wife thinks I am nuts but she says that it's better than some other scenarios that she can think of.

Yoshi builds these in his spare time so it may take some time to make more for youse guys. But I seem to remember when I got the first one for the Prius that he had offered to supply the parts if and i could build it myself. But since my soldering skills are far from adequate, I decided to wait for him to build it for me.

Now maybe you are more comfortable with building electronics. If so, you might be able to get a kit faster and at a lower price than if it were built by Yoshi. More details here, need to translate.

http://priusdiy.fc2web.com/NENPIKEI.html

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Fo sheezy?

Are you allowed to say how much it cost you cuz I can say that I'm wanting to get one of these kewl things!?

The price will be $160 shipped for a built and tested unit. I just need to verify that it works for my car.

[krousdb]

Trying to install now!

Woooooooot!

[SVOboy]

.

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Thought you couldn't pick it up until saturday?

Post office delivered today. Since I signed the slip, they left it in my storm door.

It's installed and shows about 2ms PW at idle. Sounds close. Im going for a drive to verify speed sensor works.

[krousdb]

I just took a drive to see what the initial calibration was like. The trip odometer on the del camino says 6.0 miles. The SuperMid says 9.70 km or 6.01 miles. I expected it to be close because I am using the same size tires as a Prius.

After the 6 mile trip the display showed 0.376 liters used, or 25.79 km/l, or 60.6 MPG. Hmmm the calibration seems a little off there, but not too much. The Del Sol uses 240cc injectors. Yoshi says his Prius calibration number shows 222cc. So there is probably an under registration of 10% which would bring me back down to 54 MPG. Sounds about right because I started on a warm engine. I'm gonna drive to work and back to get a better calibration on the odometer and see what the trip FE is. I will adjust the calibration down to make the trip 51MPG which is what I average. Then I will fill up the tank for a full tank calibration.

So far so good with the BETA testing. I was even able to verify that the injectors shut off completely under colsed throttle. The PW shows 0.0. I have it hooked up so that I can shut off the engine and restart by either bump start or starter and the SuperMID keeps on recording distance.

Not I just have to figure out how to mount it. ;-)

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by krousdb

I just took a drive to see what the initial calibration was like. The trip odometer on the del camino says 6.0 miles. The SuperMid says 9.70 km or 6.01 miles. I expected it to be close because I am using the same size tires as a Prius.

After the 6 mile trip the display showed 0.376 liters used, or 25.79 km/l, or 60.6 MPG. Hmmm the calibration seems a little off there, but not too much. The Del Sol uses 240cc injectors. Yoshi says his Prius calibration number shows 222cc. So there is probably an under registration of 10% which would bring me back down to 54 MPG. Sounds about right because I started on a warm engine. I'm gonna drive to work and back to get a better calibration on the odometer and see what the trip FE is. I will adjust the calibration down to make the trip 51MPG which is what I average. Then I will fill up the tank for a full tank calibration.

So far so good with the BETA testing. I was even able to verify that the injectors shut off completely under colsed throttle. The PW shows 0.0. I have it hooked up so that I can shut off the engine and restart by either bump start or starter and the SuperMID keeps on recording distance.

Not I just have to figure out how to mount it. ;-)

I'm pretty excited about this. I would be more excited if the price wasn't $160.

Now to your mounting question. Does it come in a plastic case? If so, I would recommend trying to mount a speaker mount for a surround sound speaker (the little ones in the corner of the rooms) to the back of it. You can screw it into your dashboard. Height, angle, etc. are all adjustable at this point.

[Compaq888]

How does it work so that when the trottle is closed your fuel supply is off????

Anybody know if my car got that?