When will we get serious FE cars?

[northboundtrain]

I hope I'm not asking a question that's been discussed at length already. Just wondering if anyone knows when we can expect to see some cars in the 75 mpg range being sold in the good ole U.S. of A. I'm wondering how long I have to hold onto the old diesel beater until it's worth investing in another ride.

[VetteOwner]

well whenever the lame a$$ safety crash test ratings become more lax...

[MetroMPG]

When? I'm betting only when gas is north of $US 6/gallon.

Remember of course that the Honda Insight 5-spd was already capable of that kind of mileage without too much difficulty. 65 US mpg average for 85 owners on greenhybrid.com, with 14 exceeding 75 mpg - http://greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by VetteOwner

well whenever the lame a$$ safety crash test ratings become more lax...

And when the EPA and CARB get the 2x4's out of their you-know-what and quit vilifying diesels...

[northboundtrain]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

When? I'm betting only when gas is north of $US 6/gallon.

Remember of course that the Honda Insight 5-spd was already capable of that kind of mileage without too much difficulty. 65 US mpg average for 85 owners on greenhybrid.com, with 14 exceeding 75 mpg - http://greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/

Yeah, If I could get an insight, I probably would since the mileage is close enough to what I'd like to see. However, with two kids and a dog, a two-seater coupe is not an option for me

Now I know many cars are capable of getting 75 mpg, but I'm talking about cruising on the highway at 70 mph, not relying on extreme p&g tactics, etc. Compared to the current offering of new and used cars, my Jetta does well enough -- 35 to high 40s mpg depending on speed and driving conditions -- that I'm going to stick with it until something significantly better comes along. Just wondering when something like the VW lupo will be sold here.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Originally Posted by northboundtrain

Just wondering when something like the VW lupo will be sold here.

When we see steady $8-10/gal gas. The thing wouldn't sell in Europe with gas at ~$6/gallon, so I doubt it'll sell here unless gas is substantially more.

[MetroMPG]

I wonder if one reason it didn't sell well in Europe is because their fleet average FE performance is already substantially better than in N.A, and that colours the consumer's decision making process.

In other words, the Lupo seem less spectacular by comparison. IE, consumers had to justify spending more money for a slower, smaller car that perhaps only returned moderately better FE than they could get from other readily available choices.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Something like that. I've been on a few German forums and found drivers of the manual trans 1.4L TDI Lupo getting similar mileage to the 3L Lupo, so VW probably figured that the for the most part people who really wanted ~75-100mpg would just buy a 1.4L TDI powered Lupo and drive that efficiently instead of paying a premium for something with less power that did the same thing they could do themselves, expect automatically, and w/ less flexibility.

[northboundtrain]

So I guess nothing's currently in the pipeline for the U.S. market?

Guess maybe we'll just have to wait and see what turns up at the X Prize.

[BIBI]

OR, US market is going to wake up in 50 years, and there is going to have no more petrole, so there are going to do cars that does 1000mpg, but for what for, there will be no more gas left to burn.

What is killing, the fact that Honda did a 50mpg car (civic vx), in 1992 (15 years ago!!) and that my mom just bought the most efficient car on the market, a yaris, and that she conssumed more than mine!!! Or the fact that in 1996 (more than 10 years ago...) GM offered a electric car, and that I couldn't even buy one today if I had a trillion dollars, . Anyway, who cares! seems that not enough people....

[suprapsu]

There are certainly regulations that US carmakers have to meet in order to bring the FE cars to the US. Years ago we had the Civic VX, Civic HF and Geo Metro which easily got 50 miles to the gallon and didn't need the electric motors. Why? because they were so light weight and therefore not so safe if you got into an accident. US car makers have changed.

[Bill in Houston]

Originally Posted by northboundtrain

Yeah, If I could get an insight, I probably would since the mileage is close enough to what I'd like to see. However, with two kids and a dog, a two-seater coupe is not an option for me

Now I know many cars are capable of getting 75 mpg, but I'm talking about cruising on the highway at 70 mph, not relying on extreme p&g tactics, etc. Compared to the current offering of new and used cars, my Jetta does well enough -- 35 to high 40s mpg depending on speed and driving conditions -- that I'm going to stick with it until something significantly better comes along. Just wondering when something like the VW lupo will be sold here.

I think this is part of the problem. As an American, you won't really be impressed until you can get something at least as big as a CR-V, that gets 75 mpg at 70 mph. An Insight really and truly is just about the best FE car we are going to have in the next 10 years, and it just didn't sell well enough. I'm not bagging on you personally. I'm just saying that the car you described in your first post was offered to all of us to buy, and it withered away and died.

[basjoos]

Originally Posted by northboundtrain

Yeah, If I could get an insight, I probably would since the mileage is close enough to what I'd like to see. However, with two kids and a dog, a two-seater coupe is not an option for me

Now I know many cars are capable of getting 75 mpg, but I'm talking about cruising on the highway at 70 mph, not relying on extreme p&g tactics, etc.

At this point in time, the only way to get a car like this is to create it yourself. My current car, a 4 seater, can easily get 75mpg at 70mph in normal driving and can easily cruise at 80mph, but I had to modify an existing 45+mpg car to get it.

[repete86]

You can always build your own three wheel micro-car. It will take alot of work, but put a small diesel into it and you're set for probably much more than 75 mpg. I've been thinking about doing this, but I travel too much for work with alot of gear to be able to get away with this. My next step is veggie oil and heavy duty aero mods once the Honda dies.

[escortdriver]

Is it really that shocking that cars 10 years ago got the same or better fuel economy than today??

American's will get and buy more fuel efficient cars when people lose this fetishistic desire for more power. I don't need a compact sedan to have 150 bhp and neither do you! My 110 bhp escort is too much even; my 89 bhp horsepower escort was just fine thank you!

[repete86]

Actually, gas mileage has dropped about 1 mpg in the last 20 years.

[northboundtrain]

Originally Posted by repete86

You can always build your own three wheel micro-car. It will take alot of work, but put a small diesel into it and you're set for probably much more than 75 mpg.

I suppose I could, but there's other things I'd rather do. This discussion does make me wonder, however, what it would take to get 75 mpg at 70-75 mph (that just seems like a good number to shoot for for some reason) out of an existing 4 seater car. I'm sure some aero mods would be necessary, but, with no offense to anyone on this forum, I'd like the car to still look professionally built/modified. I'd be willing to sacrifice horsepower, but would like enough torque to get me up a mountain at a reasonable speed.

Any ideas?

[kickflipjr]

Originally Posted by repete86

Actually, gas mileage has dropped about 1 mpg in the last 20 years.

In the last 20 years:

0-60 times have decreased
hp has increased
average weight has increased

[VetteOwner]

Originally Posted by escortdriver

Is it really that shocking that cars 10 years ago got the same or better fuel economy than today??

American's will get and buy more fuel efficient cars when people lose this fetishistic desire for more power. I don't need a compact sedan to have 150 bhp and neither do you! My 110 bhp escort is too much even; my 89 bhp horsepower escort was just fine thank you!

lol my 64 hp chevette 2000lb metal car has trouble getting up hills...but it makes it! like a turtle... lol it only cost about $4500 new in 1980

my s-10 has around 96 is at the sheels and it hauls 900lbs of stuff in the bed and also has lots tourque for towing. sure it may not be super fast accelerating while towing or hauling but thats why we have hazard lights

[ZugyNA]

Get the facts?

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/


http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles...-vanguard.html


From families to farmers, drivers across the nation have been waiting for "no compromises" vehicles-cars and trucks that can help keep America running strong while countering the health, economic, and environmental threats posed by global warming pollution. UCS engineers have designed just such a vehicle—The UCS Vanguard.

"So why can't I get a Vanguard right now?"

Instead of employing their talented engineers to install the Vanguard's full complement of cost-effective global warming reduction features on their own vehicles, automakers are relying on lawyers and lobbyists to thwart consumer and government demand for cleaner vehicles. Their strategy—overturning existing laws intended to reduce global warming pollution in California and 10 other states—would deny drivers the "no compromises" vehicles we all desire. It's time for automakers to stop spinning and suing, and instead create safe, affordable, and cleaner cars and trucks (and the manufacturing and farming jobs that come with them).

[MorningGaser]

I think that over the last 15+ years, engineers have found ways to get more accelleration and speed from a given engine displacement, and target MPG.

What the idoits should have done was use the technical advance to get MORE MPG, and not more speed/accelleration.

My 2007 Yaris can give 45+ MPG, but it also provides 106hp....could it be that if the engine was tuned to just 85hp, the car made to weigh 400lbs less (like an early 1990's Civic), it would provide around 60+ MPG?

It seems that the auto industry takes technical advances, and uses them for bad (speed/acceleration), instead of good (more MPG).

[MetroMPG]

That's also a good point.

Your Yaris has about twice HP of my Metro Likely more than twice, since I put the XFi cam in.

[MorningGaser]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

That's also a good point.

Your Yaris has about twice HP of my Metro Likely more than twice, since I put the XFi cam in.

...and I never need the 106HP...never found a reason to ever floor it getting on the freeways, or passing slow moving, etc....until the American mentality changes, and stops equating high HP with "sexiness" in a car, we'll continue to get over the top HP in little "Gas saving" cars....maybe when gas gets too $6+? I'm ready for it...seems you're more so...

[bzipitidoo]

America needs an attitude change. Sure, high gas prices would force it. But I like what the Prius is doing better. In most people's eyes it's actually cool to own one. How the Prius pulled that one off, I'm not sure. Maybe it's that micro cars are Carter administration "we must sacrifice", while most hybrids are "have it both ways" Clintonesque.

It didn't help that domestic automakers so drastically skewed the quality of their vehicles to positively correlate with hugeness. I can't think of a small American engineered and built car that isn't crap.

Another change is that people are bigger than ever. Taller and fatter. Ask someone 6 ft, 200 pounds plus to sit in a 1960's bug. Even with the seat all the way back, they'll be sitting with their legs akimbo to keep their knees from knocking the steering wheel.

[cheapybob]

Well, do you want a $5000 car that gets 75 mpg or a $25000 car that gets 75 mpg.

I don't think Americans will be able to AFFORD $25000 cars much longer, anyway, let alone fuel for them at $10/gal.

[ezeedee]

Originally Posted by bzipitidoo

Another change is that people are bigger than ever. Taller and fatter. Ask someone 6 ft, 200 pounds plus to sit in a 1960's bug. Even with the seat all the way back, they'll be sitting with their legs akimbo to keep their knees from knocking the steering wheel.

im 6'2" 195 lbs and i drove a baja bug out in the desert just fine with me similarly sized friend in the passenger seat. it wasnt super roomy by any means, but it was comfortable.