HAFC kit

[phantomcow2]

Anybody here heard of this? http://www.befreetech.com/

It's one of these hydrogen booster setups. I think I am going to go ahead and try one of these out. I've looked at all sorts of fuel saving devices (including hydrogen boosters). This is the only one that guarantees a minimum of 50% increase in FE, or money back.

[VetteOwner]

lol it says the guranteee is only good if one of thier mechanics does the adjusting and or installing of it. so where the heck are they?

[phantomcow2]

Well, this is true. I think I would do the installation myself, but I am not buying until I find out where their "trained mechanic" is located.

[cfg83]

phantomcow2 -

I remember this site from a long time back. From a quick look, it seems like the system is better than what I remember, but the cost is higher too. Like others said, 50% is hard to guarantee.

I wish you were driving a Diesel, because I think it would be a better gamble.

I would just say take more time doing more homework. See if you can google someone else's experience with the system.

CarloSW2

[phantomcow2]

Well, I've been doing research on hydrogen boost kits for a while now. This is the only one who guarantees the 50% increase, which I think is pretty bold of them. Not once on their website do you see under the little disclaimer:
*Values not guaranteed, subject to change without notice, etc.

So, I decided to go forward with it. I've been emailing the dealer of this kit with a lot of questions for two weeks now. They seem pretty serious about this, and if I interpret it correctly, I can return it for a full refund if I am not happy with it. My only concern is finding a trained technician. THen again, I am not too far away from Boston, so maybe my concern is not totally legitimate. I guess time will tell.
The website says the 50% minimum is more common with larger engines, and that smaller 4 cylinders like mine (2.2L) usually see much more. What I like is that this isn't JUST a hydrogen generator. It's got the computer, which Is suspect is how they are getting the gains they claim. It includes a fuel heater, magnets, and some other stuff I think. I am taking a risk, but I don't think it's a great risk at all.

[phantomcow2]

BY the way, here is where I found about this:
http://fueleconomytips.com/2007/09/0...d-50-increase/

[cfg83]

phantomcow2 -

Originally Posted by phantomcow2

BY the way, here is where I found about this:
http://fueleconomytips.com/2007/09/0...d-50-increase/

Ok. I'll be watching for your posts!

CarloSW2

[ZugyNA]

Originally Posted by phantomcow2

So, I decided to go forward with it. I've been emailing the dealer of this kit with a lot of questions for two weeks now. They seem pretty serious about this, and if I interpret it correctly, I can return it for a full refund if I am not happy with it. My only concern is finding a trained technician. THen again, I am not too far away from Boston, so maybe my concern is not totally legitimate. I guess time will tell.

The website says the 50% minimum is more common with larger engines, and that smaller 4 cylinders like mine (2.2L) usually see much more. What I like is that this isn't JUST a hydrogen generator. It's got the computer, which Is suspect is how they are getting the gains they claim. It includes a fuel heater, magnets, and some other stuff I think. I am taking a risk, but I don't think it's a great risk at all.

Well the cost is a minimum $1200...but the system involves a fuel heater/magnets...fuel additives (acetone/xylol/other)...an H generator....and an EFIE type device. Seems legit to me...and my next car might have one installed.

They are training installers...so that shouldn't be an issue.

Hope you go ahead with it.

Combine this system and some driving techniques and what you got?

[VetteOwner]

lmao! its $1200???? could find a cheap scooter for that...

[ZugyNA]

Here is a similar system for $900.

http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/index.html

http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/savings.html


Can actually get the HAFC for $850.

[phantomcow2]

The system from hydrogen-boost.com doesn't guarantee the 50% minimum. I went ahead with it, and actually got it for 850 plus ~20 to ship.
I indirectly got in contact with the company owner, and he informed me that a guy New England is attending training next monday, so perhaps I can use his services.

Here's a list I got off a yahoo group devoted to this product of vehicles retrofitted as of August 23, 2007, in his shop:
As of August 29, 2007, in our shop, we have done the following:

1. Toyota Corolla 96 (4 cylinder) from 23 to 60 mpg first car we did (+160%)

2. Hyundai 2000 (4) cylinder from 33 to 75 mpg then lost it (AFR) (+127%)

3. Chevrolet Monte Carlo 2004 (6 cylinder) from 30 to 50 (AFR) (+67%)

4. Chev Tahoe SUV 2004 (8 cylinder) from 15.57 to 25.3 mpg (AFR) (+63%)

5. Honda Civic 1997 stick shift went from 31.42 to 50.6 mpg (+61%)

6. 1995 (0BD-I) F-150 (V-8) pickup went from 12.7 to 33 mpg (+159%)

7. 2002 Toyota Camry 42 mpg went to 63 or something (AFR) (+50%)

8. Cadillac 2000 V-8 Seville only increased a very few mpg (AFR) (10%)

9. 2000 Grand Am went from 33.37 to 64.33 mpg Fuel Cell was not on (+93%)

10. *95 GMC Yukon V-8 throttle body went from 17.33 to no improvement (0%)

11. *95 Suburban V-8 throttle body increased about 5 mpg (16%)

12. 2002 Marquis V-8 went from 26.78 to 64.43 (retuned & it got 85) (+217%)

13. 1999 Honda CRV (4 cylinder) went from 26.73 to 62 mpg (+131%)

14. 1997 Dodge Ram Pickup was crap maybe a plugged cat (22.9 mpg) (+5.65%)

15. 1997 F-150 pickup went from 33.67 to 40 mpg (18%)

16. 2002 Dodge Neon (2.L) 4 cylinder stick shift from 39.2 to 73.53 mpg (+88%)

17. 1998 Plymouth Breeze 4 cylinder went from 38.46 to 77.84 mpg (+102%)

18. John Scotese’s Mazda 2006 from 46 to 92 mpg now 120 (AFR) 4X (160%)

19. Dutchman’s 2007 Honda Civic from 33 to 85 (AFR)-4X test (158%)

20. 2000 Jeep Wrangler (2.5 L) 4 cylinder from 17.3 to 26.58 no retune (+53%)

21. Subaru 2000 Legacy (2.5 L) (4) cylinder 32 to 63 (+97%)

22. 2000 Honda Accord EX (4) went from 28.4 to 55.9 mpg (+97%)

23. GMC Safari Van 1994 V-6 (4.3L) from 19.86 to 30.4 mpg (+53%)

24. 2004 Mazda MPV 6 cylinder from 23.4 to 43.47 mpg (+85%)

[Telco]

Interesting. That appears to be a Brown's Gas generator.

[cfg83]

Telco -

Originally Posted by Telco

Interesting. That appears to be a Brown's Gas generator.

Yup. Plus the other gizmos.

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

phantomcow2 -

Originally Posted by phantomcow2

The system from hydrogen-boost.com doesn't guarantee the 50% minimum. I went ahead with it, and actually got it for 850 plus ~20 to ship.
I indirectly got in contact with the company owner, and he informed me that a guy New England is attending training next monday, so perhaps I can use his services.

Here's a list I got off a yahoo group devoted to this product of vehicles retrofitted as of August 23, 2007, in his shop:
As of August 29, 2007, in our shop, we have done the following:

...

Cool. I never heard of the Yahoo group. You'll be getting a more advanced system than mine because of the "variable amp control" he seems to be talking about in his discussion.

CarloSW2

[phantomcow2]

Alright, well there's been a development. I found out from my dealer that he doesn't even have kits for sale. He is waiting for an order of 1000 and was going to place an order for them all at once, then ship them to me. I was pretty frustrated with this, and sent a page long email basically telling him that he might get those 1000 orders if this organization's marketing didn't look so...
"lemonade stand-ish".
He replied in large font and was not very happy with me, and said he will cancel my order so I accepted that and am getting a refund. I'm still wanting to order the product, because I think the product is great. But this is a case of great product - crappy sales. I'm ordering through a dealer who has them in stock

[Telco]

Originally Posted by phantomcow2

Alright, well there's been a development. I found out from my dealer that he doesn't even have kits for sale. He is waiting for an order of 1000 and was going to place an order for them all at once, then ship them to me. I was pretty frustrated with this, and sent a page long email basically telling him that he might get those 1000 orders if this organization's marketing didn't look so...
"lemonade stand-ish".
He replied in large font and was not very happy with me, and said he will cancel my order so I accepted that and am getting a refund. I'm still wanting to order the product, because I think the product is great. But this is a case of great product - crappy sales. I'm ordering through a dealer who has them in stock

I hope you ordered with a credit card that you can cancel the charge on. He is waiting to get 1000 orders of an item that costs almost 1000 bucks, and already charged you for it? Sounds like a scam to me. I don't think I'd wait on the refund, I think I'd go ahead and call my credit card company and tell them what's up. I'm pretty sure you only have a certain amount of time to question a charge before you are responsible for it, after that you are forced to pay and have to try and get your money back through the courts. It'll cost a lot more than you'd get back to fight for it, and it's unlikely you'd be able to recover anything.

So far as it being a great product, think I'd have to see one of the regular board members buy one and say it was working right, and I don't mean a new one, I mean one that's been on a year or two without hawking a lot of stuff. I'd not even expect anyone to believe ME if I said I had one and it was great since I've only been posting here for a couple three months now.

[phantomcow2]

Well, I paid with paypal and credit card. I'll give him a little while to refund me, and go ahead and call after that. Keep in mind this product is sold by several dealers, not all are the same.

I don't think this product is a scam, I have full confidence in it. It takes a few determined few to really break through, and I hope to be one of those pioneers. The more I am exchanging emails with members of this organization, the more I am getting a better understanding of what they have to offer.

There's all sorts of little devices out there that'll claim to add one or two % of FE. I've done the driving technique modifications, and I've gotten over 60% better than EPA estimates. But this product steps up the quest for FE several notches.

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by phantomcow2

Alright, well there's been a development. I found out from my dealer that he doesn't even have kits for sale. He is waiting for an order of 1000 and was going to place an order for them all at once, then ship them to me. I was pretty frustrated with this, and sent a page long email basically telling him that he might get those 1000 orders if this organization's marketing didn't look so...
"lemonade stand-ish".
He replied in large font and was not very happy with me, and said he will cancel my order so I accepted that and am getting a refund. I'm still wanting to order the product, because I think the product is great. But this is a case of great product - crappy sales. I'm ordering through a dealer who has them in stock

Just FYI, if you were not told, in advance that the product didn't even exist yet - it's fraud. Selling a tangible product that doesn't exist without explicitly telling you "we're waiting for X orders and then you'll receive" isn't quite legal.

Secondly, he's a bad business person. You NEVER tell your customer that you're not happy with them as a result of constructive criticism. Based on that knowledge alone, I wouldn't purchase from them --> crappy customer service. I really don't think the SG would be so successful if it had crappy service like that (personally, I've never had such great service with them).

If he doesn't refund shortly, call your credit card and do a charge back. This guy won't like it very much (could have been avoided with prompt service) - but it's your money. As a merchant processor, you're not allowed to have a certain %tage of charge backs before you get hit with higher processing fees (it's good products and good service encouragement)....

[phantomcow2]

BY the way,
My kit ships this week. I actually emailed that company and one of the mechanics in hte training program called my house himself. I asked tons of questions, and I am thoroughly impressed. I can say with absolute confidence that
A. THis is not a scam
B. This product has actual r & d behind it. It isn't just some guy in his basement, this is actually thought out.

[Telco]

Originally Posted by phantomcow2

BY the way,
My kit ships this week. I actually emailed that company and one of the mechanics in hte training program called my house himself. I asked tons of questions, and I am thoroughly impressed. I can say with absolute confidence that
A. THis is not a scam
B. This product has actual r & d behind it. It isn't just some guy in his basement, this is actually thought out.

I hope it works out for you, but everything I've seen in this post screams SCAM (not necessarily the technology, but the purchase)! If you are set on trying the technology, you might try finding another dealer who will wait until he ships the merchandise to charge the card. The fact that he charged the card without shipping the product, like legitimate businesses do, is a huge red flag to me whether I'm looking at new, cutting edge tech or a light bulb. If he can sweet-talk you long enough, you may be out the money even if you get nothing for it.

[phantomcow2]

Well, keep in mind that this is paypal. So, it's automatically charged as soon as I click "pay". There's no way around that

[slimreynolds]

I think you are safe. I am also getting the hafc kit soon but my customer service rep in the area said they aren't ready to ship for another couple of weeks. I never paid for anything yet though. I also talked to the mechanic in the area and i am sure this is legit. I just can't wait any longer. Keep us posted. by the way, who are you buying the kit from?

[phantomcow2]

I went through befreetech.com

I spoke for an hour with the mechanic who is currently attending their HAFC training class. He was a nice guy, and quite knowledgeable. He says their Pre Ignition Catalytic converter was also mentioned at the training, but not in much depth because it's not available for a year. This is the only kit I've found that isn't just made in some guys basement. They have a 40'x80' shop, an actual CNC lathe and CNC mill. A lot of their stuff is made right there in house.
I've got a few friends who are interested in buying this kit if mine works out alright, which I am certain it will. THe owner of the company has a HOnda civic getting 85mpg with this...

I think that the key is the electronics. Other kits only include the hydrogen booster, but that isn't enough. YOu need the electronics to go with it to get the true benefits.

[slimreynolds]

where is the mechanic based out of?

[phantomcow2]

He is near Watertown, NY. That's too far for me

[ZugyNA]

Could you post the URL for the Yahoo group?

The variation in results shows the VALIDITY of choosing the vehicle first...and modding it for mpg later.

Originally Posted by phantomcow2

The system from hydrogen-boost.com doesn't guarantee the 50% minimum. I went ahead with it, and actually got it for 850 plus ~20 to ship.

I indirectly got in contact with the company owner, and he informed me that a guy New England is attending training next monday, so perhaps I can use his services.

Here's a list I got off a yahoo group devoted to this product of vehicles retrofitted as of August 23, 2007, in his shop:
As of August 29, 2007, in our shop, we have done the following:

1. Toyota Corolla 96 (4 cylinder) from 23 to 60 mpg first car we did (+160%)

2. Hyundai 2000 (4) cylinder from 33 to 75 mpg then lost it (AFR) (+127%)

3. Chevrolet Monte Carlo 2004 (6 cylinder) from 30 to 50 (AFR) (+67%)

4. Chev Tahoe SUV 2004 (8 cylinder) from 15.57 to 25.3 mpg (AFR) (+63%)

5. Honda Civic 1997 stick shift went from 31.42 to 50.6 mpg (+61%)

6. 1995 (0BD-I) F-150 (V-8) pickup went from 12.7 to 33 mpg (+159%)

7. 2002 Toyota Camry 42 mpg went to 63 or something (AFR) (+50%)

8. Cadillac 2000 V-8 Seville only increased a very few mpg (AFR) (10%)

9. 2000 Grand Am went from 33.37 to 64.33 mpg Fuel Cell was not on (+93%)

10. *95 GMC Yukon V-8 throttle body went from 17.33 to no improvement (0%)

11. *95 Suburban V-8 throttle body increased about 5 mpg (16%)

12. 2002 Marquis V-8 went from 26.78 to 64.43 (retuned & it got 85) (+217%)

13. 1999 Honda CRV (4 cylinder) went from 26.73 to 62 mpg (+131%)

14. 1997 Dodge Ram Pickup was crap maybe a plugged cat (22.9 mpg) (+5.65%)

15. 1997 F-150 pickup went from 33.67 to 40 mpg (18%)

16. 2002 Dodge Neon (2.L) 4 cylinder stick shift from 39.2 to 73.53 mpg (+88%)

17. 1998 Plymouth Breeze 4 cylinder went from 38.46 to 77.84 mpg (+102%)

18. John Scotese’s Mazda 2006 from 46 to 92 mpg now 120 (AFR) 4X (160%)

19. Dutchman’s 2007 Honda Civic from 33 to 85 (AFR)-4X test (158%)

20. 2000 Jeep Wrangler (2.5 L) 4 cylinder from 17.3 to 26.58 no retune (+53%)

21. Subaru 2000 Legacy (2.5 L) (4) cylinder 32 to 63 (+97%)

22. 2000 Honda Accord EX (4) went from 28.4 to 55.9 mpg (+97%)

23. GMC Safari Van 1994 V-6 (4.3L) from 19.86 to 30.4 mpg (+53%)

24. 2004 Mazda MPV 6 cylinder from 23.4 to 43.47 mpg (+85%)

[iburnh2o]

I recently attended and was certified as an installer for the HAFC. Located in South Central ND I'm quite a ways from you phantomcow but part of my install team was Papo from http://www.paposauto.com/default.htm
Looks like he's about 335 miles from Watertown but he's got quite a nice shop and is top notch mechanic.

[phantomcow2]

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/befreetech/

[slimreynolds]

I'm from Connecticut so watertown, NY isn't too far. When did you say you were going to receive the kit?

[phantomcow2]

I don't live in Watertown, that's where the mechanic is located. I live in New Hampshire.
I think the kit ships this week, so it should be here next week. I guess then it's up to UPS