E-manage, any body got some info?

[Compaq888]

WHat can you guys tell me about the e-manage?? Does it work in closed loop or only open loop??

If it's open loop then forget it.

I want to tune my car with the e-manage for closed loop driving so I can get another 2+ mpg. If it's tuned right then I will have more power and press the gas less. It will go in a completly stock car. I know it will fit my car because I see there are some guys running it in the same car I have. I want to get the e-manage with pressure harness, ignition and injector harnesses.

The safc2 is not for me because the gas pedal has to be pressed 40% in order to make it work.

Some of you say it's stupid but think about it. For $600-700 I can get another 2mpg and 20whp whenever I want to use it. I'm already at 22-23mpg for the street and 33-34 for the freeway. After I tweak my belly pan it will go up slightly.

[SVOboy]

Well, does the e-manage come with the wideband also?

And you won't be able to use the 20 whp at the same time as the 2 mpg, the gas mileage comes from leaning out the lower portions, but you need to knock the WOT afrs down to like 13-13.2 according to most honda tuners to not damage the engine, so that'll still suck for gas mileage.

[Compaq888]

no it doesn't. I don't need a wideband because I'm NA and I'll get it tuned once and that's it.

Here is what I want to do. From 1000-2500rpm I want the A/F really flat so I'll get better gas mileage. I also want more power up top when I do floor it. My car runs really rich from 3k all the way up to redline. I also want to make the A/F up there flat too but for power not economy. So basically what I want is 1000-2500 fuel economy, and 3000-redline power.

The safc2 is no good because the gas needs to be pressed 40% in order to make it work.

[SVOboy]

So you're going to pay to have it tuned then?

[Compaq888]

Of course. it will be tuned with a dyno. It's $359 for e-manage and all harnesses to have complete control of my ignition and injectors.

[Bunger]

Originally Posted by Compaq888

The safc2 is no good because the gas needs to be pressed 40% in order to make it work.

How do you have it setup? Last time I remember programming a VAFC (similar), you didn't have to have the throttle to 40% before it would make changes. All it does is modify the MAP (or MAF) sensor output the ECU sees.

[Compaq888]

Originally Posted by Bunger

How do you have it setup? Last time I remember programming a VAFC (similar), you didn't have to have the throttle to 40% before it would make changes. All it does is modify the MAP (or MAF) sensor output the ECU sees.

I was told by a couple of people that the TPS or something like that has to be at 40% for the safc2 to start making changes. If they greddy can control everything in closed loop which is any percentage unless I go WOT since WOT is open loop. I really need something for the low end. I know if it's tuned I can get better gas mileage.

[Bunger]

I just read through the manual again, just to make sure:

http://www.apexi-usa.com/pdfInstallation/15.pdf

You can set the high and low throttle possitions from 1% to 99% (98% on the low setting). This just gives you more adjustment than without throttle being an input at all. So what those other people told you is incorrect.

The manual is 64 pages long, but a good read if you're looking for something to adjust fuel with. It's pretty amazing what Apex-i is making these days.

[Compaq888]

Originally Posted by Bunger

I just read through the manual again, just to make sure:

http://www.apexi-usa.com/pdfInstallation/15.pdf

You can set the high and low throttle possitions from 1% to 99% (98% on the low setting). This just gives you more adjustment than without throttle being an input at all. So what those other people told you is incorrect.

The manual is 64 pages long, but a good read if you're looking for something to adjust fuel with. It's pretty amazing what Apex-i is making these days.

so let me get this straight.. It will work in closed loop at any throttle settings???

[Bunger]

Yep, any throttle setting.

[Compaq888]

What about startup?? If the dyno shop programs it for 1000,1200,1400,1600,1800,2000,2200,2400,2600,2800, 3000,3200. Which is 12 points in the RPM, how will this affect startup?

[Bunger]

Are you asking about the startup "circuit"? In which the ECU riches the mixture? If so, lets say the ecu richens it by 15%, if you fuel trim settings are set to -5% from 1800 and below (this should be about your cold running RPM), the overall effect will be +10% fuel enrichment.

The only way the SAFC II has to change the amount of fuel is to modify the input the ECU sees, which is either the MAF or MAP sensor.

[Compaq888]

so basically what you're saying it's not what the ECU is doing, it's what I'm doing to the gas pedal that makes it change the fuel input?

[Bunger]

Well the throttle input does change how much fuel the ecu inputs, but think of it like this:

The ECU monitors MANY things and then cross references a table to determin the amount of time to keep the injector open (amount of fuel). The basic things are MAP (or MAF in your case) and RPM. Other inputs such as throttle position, intake temp, altiude, engine temp, and O2 readings will then make smaller alterations.

The SAFC modifies the MAP sensor voltage, so that the ECU think there is more or less load on the engine and thus increases or decrease the amount of fuel.

That's the basics of it.

[Compaq888]

So now what would be a better buy?? The safc2 or the E-manage??

The SAFC2 can be bought for $270 shipped, the E-manage can be bought for $400 shipped. Which one is a better deal?? The e-manage costs more but will I be able to tune better with it? I've hit the point where I did everything I can to the car. Once I have some more time I'll fix the belly of the car and should get 35mpg on the freeway at 65mph. What concerns me the most is my low end, on the street I'm only getting 22mpg.

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by Compaq888

So now what would be a better buy?? The safc2 or the E-manage??

The SAFC2 can be bought for $270 shipped, the E-manage can be bought for $400 shipped. Which one is a better deal?? The e-manage costs more but will I be able to tune better with it? I've hit the point where I did everything I can to the car. Once I have some more time I'll fix the belly of the car and should get 35mpg on the freeway at 65mph. What concerns me the most is my low end, on the street I'm only getting 22mpg.

You might want to step back and think about this. $400 plus a dyno tune so you can increase your city mileage from 22 to maybe 24? Ive got to think that if you have truly done everything you can to drive economically and still only 22MPG in the city, that maybe there is problem with the engine. I dunno. I am just thinking of my 97 Subaru Outback with 120k miles. It is probably bigger and heavier that the Altima, has a larger engine, 2.5L and also has an automatic transmission with all wheel drive. I drove it for about 3000 miles last fall befire I got the del sol and averaged 32 MPG on my commute, which is only 25% highway. I'm not saying that you are not driving economically, what I am saying is that maybe your route sucks and you can't do anything about it. If that is the case, I would not expect much gain at all out engine management. But thats just my opinion. 5-10% is all that I am hoping for when I get my chipped ecu setup properly.

[Compaq888]

Originally Posted by krousdb

You might want to step back and think about this. $400 plus a dyno tune so you can increase your city mileage from 22 to maybe 24? Ive got to think that if you have truly done everything you can to drive economically and still only 22MPG in the city, that maybe there is problem with the engine. I dunno. I am just thinking of my 97 Subaru Outback with 120k miles. It is probably bigger and heavier that the Altima, has a larger engine, 2.5L and also has an automatic transmission with all wheel drive. I drove it for about 3000 miles last fall befire I got the del sol and averaged 32 MPG on my commute, which is only 25% highway. I'm not saying that you are not driving economically, what I am saying is that maybe your route sucks and you can't do anything about it. If that is the case, I would not expect much gain at all out engine management. But thats just my opinion. 5-10% is all that I am hoping for when I get my chipped ecu setup properly.

Yes my routes suck plus I drive in the morning and again during the afternoon. Both times in rush hour. I still have to get my engine cleaned with auto-rx. Don't forget I bumped up my psi to 44 during the middle of the tank and I'm at 307 miles and I already see a difference. I still haven't put my rear belly back and still haven't tinkered with the PVC catch can. I really don't think I'll break 30mpg mixed without engine management.

[Compaq888]

Read some reviews on the e-manage and the safc2. Some people say the e-manage sucks. All I heard from the safc2 is praise. I'm going to contact a dynoshop and ask what they can do to my tuning.

apperently 14.7a/f ratio is good for idle and light loads. I might want this for 1000-2000rpm then 13.5 a/f ratio for top end. The safc2 is only $270 shipped.

[SVOboy]

14.7 is stoich, which is what the car is sposed to be doing already.

[Compaq888]

I know. But I want less fuel consumption. You got any better ideas?

[SVOboy]

16:1 instead of 14.7:1

[Compaq888]

whoa, that's a little lean. I was thinking 15.5 at max.

How does this sound??? 15.5:1 up to 10% throttle, 14.7 up to 40% throttle, 13.5 up to 100% throttle???

[SVOboy]

16:1 isn't really all that lean. And 10% throttle might not even be cruising.

[Compaq888]

I'll talk to a tuner first and see what they say.

[Compaq888]

hit the 1/4 tank mark at 320miles. Which is a little high. Especially that i've been driving mostly street. I usually hit the 1/4 mark at 280-300miles and that is with mostly freeway.

I go faster now and drive the streets more and still my mpg is climbing. Things I changed during the mid of this tank... 1) new air filter, 2) New air hose, 3) front tires at 44 psi and rears at 41psi.

This tank should be high 27/low 28's. I think it's possibe to break 30mpg mixed without tuning. But to get to my 35mpg mixed goal I need tuning. I still have to run auto-rx, finish belly and put it back on, and do pcv catch can.

[Compaq888]

Talked to a couple of people who know their stuff. If I lean it out the ecu will just add more fuel to get back 14.7 a/f

The only place the engine management for fuel economy would be beneficial would be when the engine is in open loop when it's cold. So basically it's not worth it. If I had a standalone it would be a different story. But since there is still the ECU in the car it's hard to control it. The e-manage is tuned in 500rpm incraments but at least it will give better numbers in power than the safc2.

End of story.

[SVOboy]

How does the e-manage work that the ecu can still override it and run off stock fuel maps?

[Compaq888]

The ECU runs on closed loop. When you go WOT the ECU goes to open loop where it will listen to the e-manage or the safc2.

Closed loop is a sober chick
Open loop is a drunk chick. If you ever have gotten a chick drunk she will do mostly anything when drunk enough.

[Bunger]

That is true, after some time the ECU will make adjustments to the long term fuel table and "unlearn" your settings in closed loop. This is why chipping your ecu is far superior to a VAFC, SAFC, E-Manage, etc. Plus you can change your spark also, (I think e-manage might be able to do this now).

You could always reset your ECU every trip. =)

[Compaq888]

the problem is you can't chip a obd2 ecu. You can only reflash it. Nobody does reflashes to 2nd gen altima ecu. There are only reflashes to the 1st and 3rd gen ecu altima.