Dropped! My Weekend Project

[krousdb]

What a PITA! But I think it was worth it. Total drop, 1.75". No measureable change in camber or toe. Drives straight, coasts well, corners much much much better, ride much bouncier.

Oh well, you can't have everything.

Before:


After:



I have reduced my frontal area by 28 square inches! Thats gotta be worth a few MPG's!

Car wash, courtesy of Dawn dishwashing liquid. Waxed 6 weeks ago courtesy of McGuires.

Curent tank, 300+ miles, SuperMID says 50.9 MPG. Digital Fuel gauge says 53 MPG.

[Matt Timion]

wow, I had no idea that 1.75 inches would make such a noticable difference. Kinda makes me want to play along too and lower my ride.

[SVOboy]

Woot woot. How'd you measure the toe I wonder?

You can indeed have everything, but it'll cost like 400 bucks in suspension parts.

Also, take my some pictures of your IM/TB set up!

[MetroMPG]

nice! the bumpy ride... that's my holdback on dropping my car.

so... reduced frontal area, less airflow going underneath the car, decreased height:length ratio, and now you can corner faster to conserve even more momentum. good work.

if/when i do it, it will be with spring clamps or a coil-ectomy via sawzall.

[SVOboy]

Don't hack up your springs, they'll sag and do nasty stuff, y0.

[MetroMPG]

that's been debated to death on the teamswift site.

people are pretty evenly divided on new shorter springs vs. cut springs - a bunch of guys have cut off one coil (1 coil = about 1 inch) and say it works fine; no adverse effects (aside from worse ride, which you get with coilovers and shorter springs too).

everyone agrees that using a torch is not the way to do it though. a cutoff wheel/angle grinder is recommended.

[SVOboy]

Honda-tech is pretty unanimously against doing it, and there're lots of horror stories about it too, even without the torch,

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Woot woot. How'd you measure the toe I wonder?

You can indeed have everything, but it'll cost like 400 bucks in suspension parts.

Also, take my some pictures of your IM/TB set up!

I before I started, I placed the end of a tape measure in the center groove of one tire and measured to the center groove of the other tire. I measured as high as I could on each tire and still have the tape go across, about 45 degrees up from the ground. 58 1/6 inches before and after the lowering. That is as good as I can measure with what I have at home. Also, the car still drives straight and coasts very well. If there was a toe problem, the car would wander and coasting would be affected due to the tires working against each other.

I just now measured camber by standing up a 2 ft level and holding the bottom against the outermost part of the tire at the bottom. Once level, I measured from the top outermost part of the tire to the level. The difference from top to bottom was about 5/8". The diamater at the widest part of the tire is 18". So Arctangent(.625/18)= 2 degrees. So my eyeball is off. :-)

I just took some pics of the IM/TB. Let me know if you need more detail

http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp59966eh.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp59950at.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp59941gd.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp59933tq.jpg

http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp59966eh.jpg

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

that's been debated to death on the teamswift site.

people are pretty evenly divided on new shorter springs vs. cut springs - a bunch of guys have cut off one coil (1 coil = about 1 inch) and say it works fine; no adverse effects (aside from worse ride, which you get with coilovers and shorter springs too).

everyone agrees that using a torch is not the way to do it though. a cutoff wheel/angle grinder is recommended.

I chose the shorter springs because I wanted the option to undo what I did in case I didn't like it. The coilover set was $40 shipped. Not as cheap as cutting but these are adjustable also. I saved the OEM springs in case I want to go back to the original, less bouncy ride.

[SVOboy]

Did you measure the difference between the front and the back of the tire?

Thanks for the pictures, checking them out now, a super close up of the fuel rail where the fuel line attachs would be good, mine sprayed massive amounts of gas upon startup.

[MetroMPG]

I saved the OEM springs in case I want to go back to the original, less bouncy ride.

is it dramatically different? probably hard to quantify.

[SVOboy]

Dramatically. I got mildly car sick the first few times I drove my car. However, I have been on the school bus a few times lately and that makes me sick for up to 48 hours, so I'm prone to it.

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

is it dramatically different? probably hard to quantify.

Actually, the front isn't noticeably different. The back is where I notice a huge difference. The OEM springs for the back are much whimpier (thinner coil stock) than the front springs. But the new set were the same front and back. A good bump will lift you off of your seat. Before I would be lifted only half off my seat.:-)

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Did you measure the difference between the front and the back of the tire?

Thanks for the pictures, checking them out now, a super close up of the fuel rail where the fuel line attachs would be good, mine sprayed massive amounts of gas upon startup.

Nope, didnt think I could get under there without lifting the car up, which of course would screw up the measurement. I will give it a try and take another picture for you.

[SVOboy]

The way most people do it is sit block against the wheels and then measure the difference between the front and the back of the blocks.

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Did you measure the difference between the front and the back of the tire?

Thanks for the pictures, checking them out now, a super close up of the fuel rail where the fuel line attachs would be good, mine sprayed massive amounts of gas upon startup.

OK, close up here:

http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp59975fp.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp59975fp.jpg

Let me know if you need any other pics.

At the front of the front tires, measured at 45 deg from the ground the distance between center groove is 58 1/16. At the back of the front tires, 30 deg up from the ground (cant get any higher) is 58 1/4. So there appears to ba s slight toe in. Not sure what the acceptable range is. Doesn't seem too bad. I will keep an eye on the tread wear. Can't be that bad because today on my trip to home depot, about 28 mile RT, the superMID said 55.8 MPG.:-)

[SVOboy]

Just give the tie rods ends a little tweak, that's a bit out of spec.

Thank you kindly for the picture, unfortunately we have different stuff and I'm just realizing I'm missing some junk.

, good start to the weekend and just terrible everything else.

[JanGeo]

Get a laser level and slap it against the side walls of each tire and see where the laser beam converges - I think about 300-500 feet is about as much toe in as you would want - 1000 feet intersection is about 1 degree - if the beam diverges from each side you have toe out - which is really bad as I found out!

[krousdb]

Just finished installing the Tokico Blue shocks. The difference is quite noticeable. The bounciness is nearly gone and the handling is improved. Not bad for a freebie from SVOboy. Thanks Ben!

[SVOboy]

Haha, they were free to me, so no worries. Shortly after I got them I realized I could've sold them and made back the 100 I spent on everything, but I figure if I get a 600 dollar discount I can pass a 160 dollar discount on to someone that's helped me out a lot.

I still need to put my front illuminas on, I've been so busy, sadly. I'll have silly drop after I do, can't wait!

[Ted Hart]

Originally Posted by krousdb

I have reduced my frontal area by 28 square inches! Thats gotta be worth a few MPG's!

You reduced by 28 square inches? How do you figure this? Just by lowering the car? No way, Jose'! Seems to me you didn't change the frontal area...just lowered the total a bit! Did I miss something? Air still goes under the car...at about the same mass flow rate (velocity / compaction).
An air dam would force a portion of this air up & over...not letting the mass get "tangled up" under the cluttered undercarriage. Of course, a smooth bellypan would be best ; that's been done, too! With marginal benefits.... -TH

[MetroMPG]

Frontal area was changed: a little less of the front tire treads was exposed after lowering.

[onegammyleg]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

Get a laser level and slap it against the side walls of each tire and see where the laser beam converges - I think about 300-500 feet is about as much toe in as you would want - 1000 feet intersection is about 1 degree - if the beam diverges from each side you have toe out - which is really bad as I found out!

Some front wheel drive cars specify TOE-OUT.