Battery and Fuel saving

[cwa]

I had a big problem yesterday with my Auto when I was driving with a Big traffic JAM. I was shutting the engine during the stops (5-10 minutes) as traffic was not moving at all. I did not aware that my Battery had a problem and finally I could not start the engine. I got road side support after half an hour and they were able to do the jump start. Finally I had to replace the Battery.

My point is , If I did not stop the engine, this would not have happen. Therefore we have to be extra careful on Battery and health of the Car if we are to do hypermiling and any other fuel saving methods.

Finally would hypermiling will cause lower charging of the Battery? Specially if we do not increase the RPM and either stopping or running on Idle?

Regards

CWA

[brucepick]

Sorry to hear about your troubles.
I don't blame you for shutting down the engine in heavy stalled traffic, but you have to be able to restart!

Its hard - or impossible - to give a simple answer to your question.
Of course lots of restarting without enough run time would leave you with a dead battery eventually. However the question is, how much run time is needed for each restart? With batteries and alternators coming in all sizes and batteries losing their ability to hold a charge, there are too many variables.

But a good answer would be to get a voltmeter for your dash. Should be pretty easy to install if you or a friend are even slightly skilled with electrical stuff. Once installed, you will see the usual pattern of voltage for your battery and would get some warning if the voltage isn't up to it's usual level for any given situation.

Might be a good idea if you plan on lots of restarts.

Also check if replacing the starter is expensive on your car. Parts + labor. Usually it's not a biggie but on my car installation is a pain. If you do lots of restarts you might use up the starter's lifespan, even though "hot" restarts are somewhat less taxing than cold ones.

[Erdrick]

A member of gassavers.org once said that it isn't the multiple starts that kills a starter, but rather long cranking times. So, don't kill your starter in the winter trying to force your engine to turn over when it doesn't want to. Just take the day off!!! haha...

I actually had battery problems after adding a CD player to my car. It came without speakers or a radio, so I had to do it all myself. I assume that the car was thus not built to support the load that a sound system would place on the alternator and battery. I had my company buy me a new battery, only to find that I was still having intermittant problems. Taking out the CD player fixed everything.

I'd say to get a decent battery, and just carry a cheapy with you for backup. You could also hook two up in parallel.

[trebuchet03]

Bugger :/ At least help came shortly

Of course, fuel saving tips list faq:

6. Maintenance

But I agree with Bruce - there's a lot of variables... Too many to draw such a specific conclusion :/ Your best bet is to monitor battery health so you'll know when something goes wonky

[BIBI]

Your battery died cause it had to died, it may just had died in a week if you had not stop and restart, but all those time you did save gas shutting off the engine for 5-10min instead of burning fuel, because a battery is a renewable thing (we recycled them), but petrole do not.

And a battery is cheap, a gallon coast 3 to 4 dollars, and the price of the battery wont get higher in 20 years, but the gallon of gas will....

[cwa]

Thank you Brucepick And Edrick for kind and good advice. I think these will help many of Us.

Recently I got the Supermid from Yoshi and it was the only addition. I do not think it will consume much power. (Yoshi can give the consumption indications?) I had original CD/Radio and I was not running it at that time. However I was running with AC/FAN at that time as outside was very hot. That must have been one reason.



Having a spare Jumpstart facility would always a good thing and I am planning have one.

THank you again

CWA

[kamesama980]

electric cooling fans are generally very high current draw...25-40 amps. that, plus the start to running time ratio, plus an older battery and yes, these things happen.

If your CD player/radio is causing electrical problems either A. you need to check your grounding points, B. get someone to fix the wiring done wrong, or C. redo teh stereo so it's done right and doesn't kill the electrical system

[Ryland]

How old was your old battery? most batteries will last 4-5 years.
Lead acid batteries like to be charged and stay that way, the longer they sit discharged, the shorter their overall life will be.
I try not to use my starter if possible, bump starting in the driveway, I also try to do things like turn off my head lights as soon as possible when pulling in to the driveway, lowering the load on the battery while the engine is still running, insted of turning the engine off, then turning the lights off.

[Rick Rae]

Originally Posted by Erdrick

I actually had battery problems after adding a CD player to my car... I assume that the car was... not built to support the load that a sound system would place on the alternator and battery... Taking out the CD player fixed everything.

The power draw for a CD player (radio, cassette, DVD, MP3, whatever) is negligible in a car's scheme of things. We're talking a few amps.

Of course if what you had included a 500 watt amp that could rattle the windows of the car three lanes over, all bets are off. But as CET with a TV/radio endorsement and a lot of experience with car stereos, my guess is one or more of your CD player, installation, or car had a problem.

Rick

[ffvben]

batteries are made for starting. you can remove your battery with it running and the car will run without the battery. new batteries seem to crank forever but the older ones might only crank 3-4xs until it needs a jump. also the starter could be getting old and have a high draw to kill the battery quicker.

[kamesama980]

like mentioned above, standard car batteries are designed for high-amp short duration loads when fully charged. if you fully discharge a battery, you halve it's lifespan and the effect is cumulative. same for long duration small amp draws. That's what deep cycle batteries are for...not so good with the sudden amps to start the car but run lights, sound, TV, etc forever to a low charge and it doesn't mind too much

[Yoshi]

Originally Posted by cwa

Recently I got the Supermid from Yoshi and it was the only addition. I do not think it will consume much power. (Yoshi can give the consumption indications?)

Hi,
The SuperMID consumes only 0.15A, approx 2W, less than one of small tail lamps(5W).

Yoshi

[basjoos]

You can use your SuperMID to tell if your battery is getting low and your alternator is having to work to charge it. If you know what your usual injector pulse widths are when idling a warm engine, if your pulse widths are larger than normal, it is working to charge the battery. On my car the idle pulse widths are very sensitive to the alternator load and only takes a few seconds to show the effects of the lights or fan being turned on/off. If I do a normal warm engine start (2 or 3 turns to start), it has recharged the battery and the pulse widths drop back to normal within 15 sec.

[cwa]

Thank you Basjoos for your Tip. Looks like Supermid can indirectly sense many things.

THank you Yoshi for giving the Power consumption for Supermid.

Regards

CWA

[skewbe]

Originally Posted by cwa

Thank you Basjoos for your Tip. Looks like Supermid can indirectly sense many things.CWA

It's more like bajoos is doing the sensing

[oneinchsidehop]

Originally Posted by cwa

I had a big problem yesterday with my Auto when I was driving with a Big traffic JAM. I was shutting the engine during the stops (5-10 minutes) as traffic was not moving at all. I did not aware that my Battery had a problem and finally I could not start the engine. I got road side support after half an hour and they were able to do the jump start. Finally I had to replace the Battery.

My point is , If I did not stop the engine, this would not have happen. Therefore we have to be extra careful on Battery and health of the Car if we are to do hypermiling and any other fuel saving methods.

Finally would hypermiling will cause lower charging of the Battery? Specially if we do not increase the RPM and either stopping or running on Idle?

Regards

CWA

Yes, I did have trouble with a battery when I was hypermileing... at night... with the headlights, heat and fan on... and oh, yeah, it was 6-7 years old and the cheapest of the cheap when new. The advise to run a deep cycle in parallel is a good one, before my car was killed (hit and run) I tracked down a good deep cycle marine battery through craigs list, $5. Don't write off hypermileing, people always want to know what mods they need to make expecting to hear about some new wing or magnet-hydrogen-displaced with bovine excrement modification... but its usually as simple as an upgraded battery, or something along that line.

Just keep learning, your on the right track.

[Brock]

Another thing you can do is get a trickle charger and plug it in at night. This will make sure your battery is topped off and ready to go the next day. As others have mentioned batteries, particularly lead acids don't like to sit on a partial charge. The longer they sit not fully charged the more sulfur builds up on the plates which reduces the capacity of the battery. I trickle charge mine at least once a week. Usually the TDI is right up there and shuts off right away, but our Sienna van charges for about an hour before being fully charged.

As a side benefit the alternator will work less and your starter will turn over easier on a full charge and be more likely to start since the motor will be spinning faster.

[kamesama980]

Something else to look into, and I mention it because I just did some work with it with good results, is engine grounding. It depends greatly on the make, model, and engine but often adding a ground wire or two can help older cars. sometimes just taking the ground wire off and hitting it with a bit of sandpaper and cleaning the battery terminals will solve seemingly horrible electrical problems.

In my case, I've got a 1990 toyota cressida, an in-line 6 mounted RWD so the engine and transmission together are about 5-6' long. It's also iron block, aluminum head. the last several times I've taken the engine out (yes, I'm like that) it seems I've replaced fewer and fewer of the small ground straps till I had one 18ga and the main 6ga ground. The other day I ran a 4ga wire from the head to the strut mount on one side and the battery ground on the other side. and viola, my electric-read oil pressure gauge started working again...hasn't since the last time the engine was out and I've been too lazy to dig in. I've heard of other cars benefitting from similar treatment but most are older ones that may have dirty ground points

[SD26]

Electrical items need to operate at a specific voltage too.

If you take a light that is supposed to run on 12vdc, and you operate it at 11vdc, you will generate more heat and reduce the life of that item. I'm not an electrical engineer, so one would have to go look up all the electrical information for that, but it will affect lights, motors, ignitions, etc.

Was the battery load tested before being replaced?

[VetteOwner]

Originally Posted by kamesama980

Something else to look into, and I mention it because I just did some work with it with good results, is engine grounding. It depends greatly on the make, model, and engine but often adding a ground wire or two can help older cars. sometimes just taking the ground wire off and hitting it with a bit of sandpaper and cleaning the battery terminals will solve seemingly horrible electrical problems.

In my case, I've got a 1990 toyota cressida, an in-line 6 mounted RWD so the engine and transmission together are about 5-6' long. It's also iron block, aluminum head. the last several times I've taken the engine out (yes, I'm like that) it seems I've replaced fewer and fewer of the small ground straps till I had one 18ga and the main 6ga ground. The other day I ran a 4ga wire from the head to the strut mount on one side and the battery ground on the other side. and viola, my electric-read oil pressure gauge started working again...hasn't since the last time the engine was out and I've been too lazy to dig in. I've heard of other cars benefitting from similar treatment but most are older ones that may have dirty ground points

yup i will contest to that. im my chevette i had to take off an existing ground to add another ground for its alarm system and noticed that whoever repainted the car never scrapped the paint off before they put the grounds back on! so what i did was get a drill with a wire brush in the end and went to town till they were all shiney. cars lights are alot brighterand seems to run smoother. i did it to my trucks grounds and didnt see too much of an imrovement it cant hurt anything it can only help!

[brucepick]

Yes - grounds count.

I had a nasty rough idle that wouldn't go away after 2 years, over 70K miles, and several tuneups and 2 changes of plug wires. Finally I busted a ground strap when working on something else; when I replaced the strap with a new one the rough idle smoothed right out.

[Rick Rae]

Originally Posted by SD26

If you take a light that is supposed to run on 12vdc, and you operate it at 11vdc, you will generate more heat and reduce the life of that item.

Um... no. Not generally.

If you run a regular 12VDC tungsten filament light at 11V, you will generate less heat and increase the life of the bulb.

You're at least partially correct in specific cases. For example, certain motor configurations will draw more current -- and thus run hotter -- at lower voltages. Reducing the voltage too far on a halogen light can shorten its life by breaking the halogen cycle, inhibiting filament replenishment and causing occlusion of the bulb... but this is due to lower temperature, not higher.

To believe lower voltage universally equals hotter operation and shorter life is incorrect. Your suggestion to look up information on whatever particular item or system you're concerned about is a good one.

Hope that helps,
Rick