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12-13-2007, 05:57 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 593
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New PICC-HAFC page...
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Leading the perpetually ignorant and uninformed into the light of scientific knowledge. Did I really say that? 
 a new policy....I intend to ignore the nescient...a waste of time and energy.
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12-13-2007, 07:01 PM
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#2
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 164
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NugyNA, I was going to post that. Nice. It will make my water/ozone injection work even better with the tuneable controller thay have.
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less lurking and more working
Last edited by maxc : 12-13-2007 at 07:27 PM.
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12-14-2007, 08:25 AM
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#3
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Neb
Posts: 292
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Do they secretly employ several Tornado devices in series hidden deep within the mechanism?
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12-14-2007, 09:37 AM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 164
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Hafc
DiamondLarry might be installing an HAFC. This link may not work. BUT keep trying. http://mpgresearch.com/viewtopic.php?p=16146
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less lurking and more working
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12-14-2007, 01:59 PM
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#5
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Disgruntled Employee
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: DC area
Posts: 115
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"the PICC creates a plasma, which burns super efficiently and cleanly! "
This is a little too close to startrek for me... I see a warp core explosion coming....
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12-14-2007, 03:01 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Newport RI USA
Posts: 2,434
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z z zz zzzzzzzzz huh! ok do they bubbled the little gas engine intake through a bottle full of weird stuff including gasoline and the gas vapors burn WHOOP DEEE DOO!! I hope you guys don't get sucked into this scam, Sounds like the guy with the HumVee running an exhost heat cooker that boils off hydrocarbons of anything they feed it into the diesel engine intake along with the regular Biodiesel injectors and they make more energy by burning the hydrocarbons - works great in a diesel but man when you have to clean out the cooker eeeyhew!
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12-14-2007, 09:06 PM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southern Idaho
Posts: 314
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If completely vaporizing a liquid fuel makes such a huge difference imagine what would happen if you ran an engine on propane or natural gas... 
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usedgeo
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12-14-2007, 10:36 PM
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#8
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Sarcasm Inc.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dekalb, IL
Posts: 651
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after watching the promo vid and reading the website it looks like it's basically a fuel pre-heater and hydrogen/oxygen burning assist that partialy replaces the gasoline used. it may (big 'may') work but for none of the reasons listed. all the explanations and scientific reasoning I saw was crap if not just plain wrong. for example, the purpose of the cat converter is NOT break down unburnt gasoline so it can be burnt in the muffler even close.
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-Russell
1987 Chevy S10 pickup. short bed, short cab, not even power brakes.
1990 Toyota Cressida 7M-GE 3.0 DOHC I6/W58 5-speed manual
Resident carpenter, stagehand, rigger, mechanic, and know-it-all smartass
"You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
read this or face my wrath
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12-15-2007, 04:16 AM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 593
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They are either sputtering...or are flabbergasted? 
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Leading the perpetually ignorant and uninformed into the light of scientific knowledge. Did I really say that?
a new policy....I intend to ignore the nescient...a waste of time and energy.
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12-29-2007, 10:41 AM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 164
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less lurking and more working
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03-09-2008, 09:20 PM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 164
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less lurking and more working
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03-09-2008, 10:10 PM
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#12
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There is no box.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Niagara Falls, ON
Posts: 1,819
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The thing I find most annoying about this is that they are using some techniques that should work, in the HAFC for about a 30% or so gain, but then are using an unscientific before and after testing method. It can't be tested on short runs because the fuel heater will expand the fuel in the tank.... doh!
I want to know the real figures, it's possible the way they put it together, could get synergistic gains, but I can't see past those BS "scientific" tests.
The PICC might work also, if they can keep it from getting carboned up (Or blowing up), which has been something of a problem in previous attempts at gaseous phase fuel pre-processing. Needs a self scrubbing cycle, or be tuned to make lots of carbon monoxide (pre-burn that would be okay, it's pretty much a fuel)
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I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
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03-13-2008, 08:49 PM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 164
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less lurking and more working
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03-13-2008, 08:56 PM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 650
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It says that there test "van" got 20mpg going 65mph up a 30% grade for an hour. Whats wrong with that?
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08-20-2009, 07:16 AM
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#15
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Learning Beginner
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fallon, NV
Posts: 21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemysan
It says that there test "van" got 20mpg going 65mph up a 30% grade for an hour. Whats wrong with that?
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Nothing wrong with that. That was the normal fuel usage. Then when they ran it 65mph at 30% grade using the PICC, they got 180mpg.
By the term 'plasma', don't they just mean that the compounds are broken down to their elemental form? That stands to reason that it would burn efficient.
But what makes it most efficient, and more efficient than running straight propane or natural gas, is the introduction of HHO into the mix, which speeds up the flame burn. Thats where the HAFC comes in and is a necessary component to using the PICC.
At least thats what I read. |
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08-20-2009, 07:48 AM
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#16
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Moderator / SPAM Patrol
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sterling, VA USA
Posts: 2,636
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I'd say be cautious of PICC / HFAC. We've banned members before because they were pushing this so hard that they forged data to try and prove that it worked. When members offered to stop by and actually see their vehicle operate in the manner they described, they declined. Anyone advocating this should be prepared to back up what they say with verifiable proof. One member even went as far as to calculate what the vehicle in question would get with 100% efficiency (Which we all know is not possible due to thermodynamics) and their claimed mileage was above that. To me all this PICC crap seems like snake oil, or at least its promoted in a similar fashion.
-Jay
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08-20-2009, 02:27 PM
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#17
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There is no box.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Niagara Falls, ON
Posts: 1,819
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I think I forgot before in a post about that test, that 30% grade @ 65mph is likely to put the motor in the lowest BSFC island, so it's actually kind of surprising they weren't reporting something like 30mpg for it's initial mpg... but still if that is putting the motor at peak efficiency of 35% then the 180mpg claim is apparently 200% efficient....
Now I think there is room in all the theory to push even to 70% efficiency, but beyond that I'm thinking there's something else going on. It's possible that they had this vehicle hooked to an externally powered lab test rig, and it was running "HHO salted with gas" rather than "gas salted with HHO" meaning that most of the energy was coming out of a wall socket.
It's also possible that some of this is playing the disinformation game, there's other groups/companies toying with this tech who have less grasp of it than 3 of the people I know of behind the HAFC, and it is an attempt to keep them in their backyard workshops looking for refinements that don't exist while HAFC floods the market with products. I kind of "know" one of the guys involved and know of the others, and may have spoken with them online under other aliases, since the whole thing took off, I'm getting something of the arms length treatment, possibly due to a suspicion that if someone wrote me a large check, and supplied people and facilities, that I could jigsaw a lot of stuff together, possibly even make an alternate angle work, and compete with them. Because of that and that there's a handful of other guys around also that are well versed in such matters, the PR and published material is deliberately kept vague... Meaning that by reading deeply between the lines I can get some clues about what they're up to, but they're jealously guarding the specifics.
I get the impression at the moment that they're helping engineer a complete vehicle, rather than adding it on... which does have real problems as regards "arguing" with the ECU.
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I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
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08-21-2009, 08:49 AM
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#18
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Learning Beginner
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fallon, NV
Posts: 21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadWarrior
I get the impression at the moment that they're helping engineer a complete vehicle, rather than adding it on... which does have real problems as regards "arguing" with the ECU.
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According to their current struggles with the EPA, and congress, that might not be a bad idea. I'm sure the thing would sell, if they could mass produce a car/truck/SUV.....or even just the engine, that produced 100+ mpg.
Jay2 the Rescue.....thanks for the headsup. I don't promote or recommend the HAFC, although I am one of those who are currently would like to see the thing work, since it makes sense on the drawing board. I have a co-worker who is putting one in his Durango....so we'll see how it goes. |
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08-21-2009, 09:08 AM
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#19
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Moderator / SPAM Patrol
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sterling, VA USA
Posts: 2,636
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Ryan: For a moment when I first saw your post, I thought you were the member we previously banned, coming back under a new user name (Which he's done before) but I checked, and you're not using the same IP address he always used so I think you're safe. Just remember that there's a lot of misinformation out there, and always remember the laws of thermodynamics. There is only so much energy that can be extracted from a gallon of gasoline. There is a finite limit to the mileage you can get from any given vehicle. These claims of 180 MPG & up from V-8 powered trucks & vans seem unrealistic to me. Even at 100% efficiency I can't see how that's possible.
-Jay
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08-21-2009, 09:44 AM
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#20
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It's what's for dinner
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: reidsville, north carolina
Posts: 1,557
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I too would love to see something actually get the mileage claimed but as jay said earlier, 100+ mpg on a 5000 pound vehicle seems very unrealistic.
ryan, let us know how it goes. it would be nice to hear the results from a third person point of view from someone that hasn't spent money on it and doesn't NEED it to work to justify the cost.
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For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
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