Indexing & Side Gapping Spark Plugs

[XFi]

Was searching the 'archives' for side gapping and indexing and found considerable older posts in regards to this. I am still unsure what the 'correct' or 'best' way to point the open side of the gap towards. Most have said towards the valves (favoring the exhaust valve), but others say away from the valves. Also, has anyone side gapped NGK 'V' plugs before. From what I understand, the sharper the edges the better for sidegapping, but would this be ok with these plugs?

WOW...Still trying to plow through the multitude of info on this site! Was Hoping to tweek my Metro one experiment at a time to find out what works, but find myself throwing two or three changes at once just because I can't wait.

Thanks!

[SVOboy]

Hey, my thread! Anyway, I believe you are sposed to point them towards the intake so that the spark is getting to the mixture rather than the empty space on the other side of the cylinder.

. Also, has anyone side gapped NGK 'V' plugs before. From what I understand, the sharper the edges the better for sidegapping, but would this be ok with these plugs?

Really, I have ****ty bosch in my car now (honda hates them), but when I replace them I will do ngk. I haven't done this yet only because I'm leaking oil into my plug holes and I don't want a huge oily mess in there or to mess with trying to get them out just yet.

WOW...Still trying to plow through the multitude of info on this site! Was Hoping to tweek my Metro one experiment at a time to find out what works, but find myself throwing two or three changes at once just because I can't wait.

Keep us updated on your projects!

[XFi]

Thanks for your input. Sorry, didn't mean to take your thread . Guess I should have just replied to an older posting. Found a local speed shop that stocks indexing washers and will stop by the parts store for the plugs(hope I can find my dremel). If the weather holds up...maybe I can get this done today.

I will try 'pointing the gap' towards the valves.

[SVOboy]

Thanks for your input. Sorry, didn't mean to take your thread Sad. Guess I should have just replied to an older posting.

No no no! I'm glad, this needed to be reposted. In my car, I would have to point the opening towards the firewall, as that is where my intake manifold is. Take some pictures and **** if you can while doing it. The v-powers are only like 2 a pop, which is jawsome. I wonder how much the indexing washers are though.

[iburnh2o]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

No no no! I'm glad, this needed to be reposted. In my car, I would have to point the opening towards the firewall, as that is where my intake manifold is. Take some pictures and **** if you can while doing it. The v-powers are only like 2 a pop, which is jawsome. I wonder how much the indexing washers are though.

Washers are about $20pp. There's enough to do a few V8's from my experience. Might want to just by twice the plugs you need and swap them around. Don't expect huge gains from indexing, but every little bit helps.

http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...8&autoview=sku

[SVOboy]

XFI, if you buy the washers and have left overs I'll buy some of them off ya,

[XFi]

Wasn't able to complete today. Will have to wait for a few days...decided to take my daughter shopping instead. I did pick up the spark plugs (six of them) and got the washers at the speed shop. I'm sure I paid a premium ($26) for a set of 30. They are accel brand and include 10 of each thickness (.043 .054 .064). SVO, I'm sure I will have some to spare and will mail you some (just private mail me your name/address). I'm not worrried about any compen$ation, but thanks anyway. Geographically, you may be the closest member on this forum to me.

[SVOboy]

Ah, that's very cool, you're in a right good spot to come to the meet I want to set up at Dan's house,

Indexing plugs is one of those things you do and notice no difference and forget about, then a year later when you've done 10 of those things you wonder what you did to get 3 mpg better this year than last.

[XFi]

I just completed side gapping some NGK V-power plugs and index installing them.

Total time approx. 30 minutes. Not a lot of time for a possible MPG improvement. I set the gap at .030 (measured at 45degrees across gap). Instructions did say to remove the 'gasket' that came with the seal. The first two plugs required .064 washers, the third matched up without even removing the gasket washer that came with it.

Accel did indicate on the instructions to point the exectrode gap toward the center of the piston, favoring the exhaust side if possible.

Will post any positive results…although I have more than one FE upgrades done at the same time. I guess I really should be patient and do one thing at a time, oh well.

SVO…private message your address to me, and as requested, I will mail you some xtras.

[SVOboy]

Woot, send the directions too or I'll get confused, , but they're prolly on this site like 3 times so yeah.

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Woot, send the directions too or I'll get confused, , but they're prolly on this site like 3 times so yeah.

And if you have any spares left after your indexing, please send them to me!

Now what plugs do you recommend? NGK copper?

[SVOboy]

And if you have any spares left after your indexing, please send them to me!

Yeah, I was planning on playing pass them along.

Now what plugs do you recommend? NGK copper?

NGK V-power (always copper)

[JanGeo]

That's weird I heard and always pointed the gap towards the intake valve but I guess you have several in a Honda. The idea is to ignite the coldest part of the cylinder to get the flame front moving there and the hotter spots will ignite easier by themselves. Also you get better cooling of the spark plug when the fresh charge comes in if the outer electrode is not blocking the intake air mixture flow from reaching the center electrode.

[SVOboy]

As XFi knows, I got my indexing washers, thanks to him. Today I bought wheel paint and also plugs.

My autozone had no NGK V-Power (no NGK at all), so I got Denso U-Groove, basically the same thing. Their idea it to make the spark propogate better by living in the grove a bit.

Time to get to work!

[dieselmech]

You point the open part of the plug (gap) towards the exh valve because in 90% of modern engines this is where the quench area is. Forget lighting the "cold" side of the chamber. I own both a large diesels shop a race engine/dyno business. The only exception to this rule I have found on the dyno (or track) is in Hemi engines. There are two reasons, one being there is no quench chamber per se in a Hemi (centre of piston if you must call one)and high tumble chambers. Not to be confused with high swirl chambers. And to go along with high tumble I suppose you would have to include small chamber engines with more than 18-20 degrees of valve inclination. (which washes walls and has stagnant fuel suspension)
Yes indexing plugs works, but each engine will notice varied results from 1) original plug orientation 2)engine efficiency 3)method of testing
In dragracing, a Stock or SuperStock class car will notice the .03 reduction in ET where as 90% of people wouldn't notice with street cars.
The increase in performance/efficiency is there, the question is your testing methodology.

[SVOboy]

1) original plug orientation

The Acura NSX is/was stock indexed, you have to buy a specific honda plug for each hole, y0.

[krousdb]

OK, indeex the plugs so the open end points toward the exhaust side. A few more Q's. The manual says .039 - .043 gap. I want more torque at low RPM. Shold I gap to the high end or the low end. And finally, whats with the plug wires. Mine appear to be OEM although I cant tell if they are original or not. Should I change, what to?

[SVOboy]

The manual says .039 - .043 gap. I want more torque at low RPM. Shold I gap to the high end or the low end

I'd like to know.

Mine appear to be OEM although I cant tell if they are original or not. Should I change, what to?

I have seen dyno sheets on a honda which compare many many wires and MSD won by a few hp on a ~300hp engine.

[n0rt0npr0]

MSD has some low quality goals if you ask me. They actually do not aspire to best a 1% failure rate!!
And they DO NOT stand behind any warranty they may give you from what I hear from the guys I ran into at milan dragway.
Notice they advertise and sponser a lot...They prolly do it to force feed new attention to their product line. They def have a bad rep at the track here.

Magnecor will stand behind their wires, and I bet they will last you the life of your vehicle

[SVOboy]

I'll try and find this dyno comparison one day, it's funny how **** hides from you.

[n0rt0npr0]

If they get the MSD and they happen to be that 1 in 100, they arn't going to appreciate that dyno very much. The MSD is going to cost prolly $60, the Magnecor will cost $80 and last the life of the vehicle.

[krousdb]

I bought a new set of NGK V-power plugs and side gapped them, not the rounded electrode approach but the flat electrode cut back further. I gapped them to 0.030.

Anyway I when I pulled out the existing plugs, duh, they are also NGK V-power, apparently quite new from the look of them. Oh well, I gues I have a spare set.

As far as indexing goes, none of the 4 point at the exhaust. Assuming that intake is at 0 degrees and exhaust is at 180 degrees, mine are at 210, 90, 135, 270.

After installation and startup, the engine idled rough, missing every 1/2 second or so, rpms fluctuation. Then it occurred to me that the SVO ecu had the ECT and IAT compensation lowered significantly for cold starts. After swapping to the stock ecu, the idle was fine. I guess I never noticed this before because I never let my car idle, it is either under load or off. I swapped back to the SVO ecu. I think it is worth about 1 MPG.

[SVOboy]

You'll get your indexing washers on wednesday I think. Also, I would agree on the cold start ****. I have no idle rpm compensation at cold start because of my dead IACV and it runs like hell.

[n0rt0npr0]

Talked to Thomson Automotive this morning. Turns out all newer V6's DO NOT benefit from indexing. For example on a GM motor that means 1994 and up. It's generally 96 and up. The heads on the GenIII's are all high tumble chambered and high valve inclination.

Of course non-wedge engines are a different story.

[zpiloto]

I'm on the band wagon. I've side gapped at .035 and indexed my plugs. The beauty of it was I didn't need the washers just swapped plug around and they came out where I needed them. When I put new plugs in I usually reset the ECU but since I did that about a 600 miles ago I did not mess with it. Did anyone else reset their ECU after gapping and indexing?

[Compaq888]

If you're looking for good spark plug wires just get NGK. They got a pair for every car.

I got NGK and they are top quality. $40.

MSD stuff is nice but you don't need it because you're not making rediculous amounts of power. Lots of 300whp cars have NGK spark plug wires and they don't complain. You don't even have 100whp, just get the NGK, they are still better than the stock wires you got now!

[thisisntjared]

how do you guys delete double posts on this site?

[thisisntjared]

Originally Posted by Compaq888

If you're looking for good spark plug wires just get NGK. They got a pair for every car.

I got NGK and they are top quality. $40.

i agree. ive seen all sorts of tests advocating different wires from different companies and crap. ngk was the most affordable name brand. i have yet to see another factory d16z6 get better mpg or pull harder than mine with different wires.

[SVOboy]

No deleting double posts, just live with it. NGK, I should get new ones sometime.

[Compaq888]

Every little thing will make a big outcome, but don't get crap. If you're going to do o2 sensors then get NGK or something like it. If you're going to do wires get NGK. If you're going to do fuel filter get one that was made for your car, not some crap at autozone.

I only buy nissan parts and if nissan sells a different brand then I look for a better brand.

Getting crap for your car will only make it worse for you.