Using diesel as gasoline additive?

[JohnNeiferd]

I'm new here and wouldn't consider myself and expert modder, but I think I might be getting the hang of the basics.

Diesel has a higher energy content per gallon than gasoline. So that means 1oz. of diesel will make a bigger explosion than 1 oz. of gasoline right?

Well, you can safely add 2-stroke motor oil in the gas of a 4-stroke engine and it'll still run just fine. There are a few people who even use regular motor oil in the gas (with a ton of smoke) but it still combusts and the engine runs. I've ran a diesel and gas mix in a small briggs and stratton engine before. I was just pouring anything flammable in to see how much abuse it could take, surprisingly a lot.

Wouldn't it be possible to add diesel fuel to gasoline to increase the energy content of gasoline? Then since the fuel mixture has a higher energy content you would be able to operate at the same speeds but with less throttle (and therefore less fuel) than before because the fuel is making a more powerful explosion.

I know diesel costs more than gas right now so that may offset the the mileage gains (if there are any) but wouldn't the diesel also lubricate the fuel system and possibly help reduce upper cylinder wear also?

Has anyone tried this? Am I thinking in the right terms of how the increased energy content would affect operation? I'll probably end up trying this on my carbed 4-wheeler just out of pure curiousity.

[maxxgraphix]

Runs like crap. Not enough compression, loss of power. Not a good idea.

[JanGeo]

Lots of white smoke when cold - provides upper cylinder lube when running - when hot the engine may tend to continue running if carburated. Sulfer in the diesel will probably destroy the Cat.

[Hateful]

I haven't tried it, but I'd be more concerned about the fuel pump screen or the injectors being clogged;As only an additive it may not be a problem.With a carb,I see no reason not to give it a try in the 4 wheeler. Don't let negative feedback stop you from experimenting; there are always some ready to say it will not work.

[kamesama980]

as far as increasing the energy per gallon content, there isn't much of a difference, something like 125k btu/g vs 130k btu/g. half the gains in a diesel engine is from running 2-3x the compression of a gas engine. this is done because A. they can and B. diesel needs it to run well.

in short, by the time you've added enough diesel to make a mentionable difference in the btu/g, the engine will run like crap.

[Ryland]

I've used bio-diesel, and straight veggie oil in my gas on my cb125 motorcycle with good luck, ran a few tanks through it, you can find that at http://www.gassavers.org/showthread....ighlight=cb125
I never got around to mixing more, I wanted to use bio-diesel, as it doesn't have the glycerin, and is supposed to have fewer problems with clogging in the long term.
I also agree that the sulphure in diesel will destroy the catolitic converter, and should not be used.

[SD26]

I was adding an amount of vegetable oil to my gasoline in the winter. No deterioration of performance, but I had no gains that I could necessarily measure.

A diesel or vegetable oil is going to have probably almost 20% more Btu's, but there might be a gain in the additional lubrication that was removed through the changes in gasoline through the various Clean Air Acts.

Gasoline has sulphur also.

[dddon]

i have tried the mix of gasohol an diesel ... it works .. best in the range of 10 -15 percent diesel .. gives a boost of perhaps 15 to 20 percent increase in MPG ... dddon

[SD26]

Welcome to the forum dddon.

What engine were you doing that in?

What kind of diesel? 100 dino, B2, B20, etc?

[JohnNeiferd]

I'm not concerned about the cat. With the new ULSD at 15ppm, I don't think that will hurt it all too much or the oil for that matter. I'm not worried about the injectors or fuel pump either. I'm not talking about running half diesel and half gasoline. Just around 10% or less of my total fuel capacity (16.5 gallons in my car). I might end up trying it on the 4-wheeler today if it stops raining, if not I'll give it a try tomorrow. If things seem to go well I might put some in my car once just for a try. One run can't hurt it.

[dddon]

the vehicle is a mopar minivan ,,3 liter engine.. 110,000 miles on it ... been using the stuff that is sold at filling stations , over the road trucks use it, i have driven 20,000 miles using it so far and have seen no ill effects til i put in about 20 percent.
ran poorly then..... dddon

[RoadWarrior]

E85 and 15% diesel? That makes sense. I was figuring on trying an E85 and kerosene mix sometime.

[StorminMatt]

Originally Posted by Ryland

I also agree that the sulphure in diesel will destroy the catolitic converter, and should not be used.

And if the sulfur doesnt destroy it, the mere fact that you are dumping TONS of unburned hydrocarbons in the cat WILL.

[Pete]

I have done the same 10% diesel mix from the local gas station as well but can report no gains in MPG or performance although there was an increase in smoothness of the engine.

One point is the oxy sensor may fail. It did on mine but it may have failed anyway since it was over 150 , 000 miles old.

Good luck with the trial and let us know how it goes.

Cheers , Pete.

[trautotuning]

Wow somebody really needs to try this. Might be interesting if it does gain 20% in mpg!

@ 20mpg thats an extra 4mpg, @ 40mpg thats an extra 8mpg!

But, keep in mind diesel is more expensive...

[SD26]

Only 20% per gallon. If it netted 20% more MPG on all of your gallons purchased, gas and diesel, it would be a reduction in cost per gallon.

[kamesama980]

really....

I might have to see if there's anything to this one with that kind of gains. they're about the same price here.

[Ryland]

Originally Posted by StorminMatt

And if the sulfur doesnt destroy it, the mere fact that you are dumping TONS of unburned hydrocarbons in the cat WILL.

I figured that your o2 sensor is less forgiving then a catolitic converter, and that is why when I tested veggie oil I drilled a hole and brazed a o2 sensor bung in, then hooked the (used) o2 sensor up to a volt meter and figured if it killed the sensor then it wasn't worth trying in a car, 10% veggie oil, not bio-diesel, burned just fine, and did not harm anything, so I'm not sure where you are going to get this ton of hydrocarbons to dump in to the catolitic converter, but I would like to know so I don't fallow the same test that you did.

[dddon]

i did not jump right up to 10% .. first i put couple quarts in a tankful, then next a gallon in a tank ..etc .. when i got to 20% the mileage gain fell off and the engine ran poorly ... so i fell back to 12% /15% .... it has not effected the odor of the exhaust , which should change if the cat was bad..i wonder if the viscosity of the fuel is changed enough to decrease the total fuel injected... anyone got any better logic as to why i am seeing an increase in mpg??

[SD26]

I don't have any perfect answers dddon.

The specific gravity of diesel is more than that of gasoline. That would make the overall specific gravity heavier in a combination. In a carbureted engine, that would make it run leaner as engine vacuum wouldn't pull in as much fuel. On an injected engine, it's under pressure, so it's a bit different that way.

What the combination does together chemically? Might be the magic, not sure.

Does your gasoline have ethanol in your area?

[dddon]

yes the "gasohol" is 10 or 15% alcohol .. and there is also E85 .. i put 10 -15% in either as i have a flex fuel vehicle now . it has only 60K on it , and runs well on the mix.
dddon

[trollbait]

The flex fuel system may be better able to handle differing fuel weights and viscosities than a non-flex vehicle. I know my Ranger has higher psi injectors than the standard.

[dddon]

my minivan runs at 50 psig ..what is the ranger pressure??
and my old mini was not a flex and i ran it for 10000 miles on "E85 D" as i call the mix... i got about 20 + mpg using it. this was on "winter gas" which is not as good as summer gas ..... dddon

right now i am looking at other options, and also how to better filter the oil in the engine, as the liturature i have read sez the less particulates in the oil the better the overall performance !!

[Dust]

bypass filter ddon. Search for a motorguard, or frantz, or gulf coast. I have a Motorguard and a sandwich adapter ready to go on my next car after I pick it up.

[dddon]

I already have a motorguard unit from a cleanroom vacuum pump.. any idea how i can cheaply determine how good it is ?/ I am planning to limit the flow with an orifice size of less than 1/16 inch ...I just did a test of a magnetic aid to the full flow on my van .. i changed the oil but not the filter, then drove 500 miles and removed the filter and cut it open ,,,it picked up a lot of magnetic particles!! I used the new rare earth type magnets ... very strong.
is there a reasonably priced place to get particles in oil identified?? dddon ..... what is a sandwich adapter?? an where can i get one!!

[Dust]

Sandwich adapter
http://www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page28.html

Screws onto your oil filter mount, and then allows the same, or different filter to be screwed onto it, with two ports to allow partial flow to an oil cooler, or guage, or filter. Is your Motorguard metal? It should have an orifice to slow stuff down, although with the sandwich adapter, I don't think you would necessarily need an orifice. To see what people are using for bypass filters, check this forum
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...oard=34&page=1

[ffvben]

I wouldn't get any oil near my gas. I had a 07 sentra 2.0L enterprise rental come in, it starts for 2 secs and stalles every time. I noticed the gas didn't evaporate fast on my fingers, it had a oily texture but still smelled like weak gas. Someone put diesel in the gas tank. I shut off the fuel pump, ran a can of BG inj cleaner in it, got it running (wot) after the exh gasket blew out from the pressure, bang- it finally got running over 5k rpm. the cat was clogged solid from the diesel.

On another car, the 2.5L altima/sentra engs have a recall on some that the Eng burns oil from bad rings. almost all of the cats have been deteriorated from the oil. and a 2nd thing on those 2.5s, their is no egr, it uses the valve timing for exh gas. so any cat that comes apart is sucked back into the cly and chews them up fast so your engine is destroyed.

[RoadWarrior]

Oil will burn clean in the right proportion, especially with any alcohol in the fuel, isopropyl being 1st choice, methanol being second, ethanol being last, which is barely any in 87 octane, though ~15% in E85. Take a camping lantern for instance, runs on anything from #2 through kerosene to coleman gas, and it only smokes bad (at either end) when you don't have the wick trimmed right.

Therefore I'd say the 1st cat got clogged ran on pure diesel, and the second cat got clogged with pure oil, when engine braking or in high vacuum.

[SD26]

Originally Posted by RoadWarrior

...ethanol being last, which is barely any in 87 octane, though ~15% in E85.

?

E85 is 85% ethanol.

[RoadWarrior]

Heh, whoops, phrased that bad, I meant ethanol being last choice for helping with oil, since you can use smaller quantities of isopropyl or methanol to help with it. And that 87 octane on it's own with only up to 10% ethanol will not cope with much oil added, but E85 would cope with up to 15% as dddon found. I think with pure methanol, you could blend up to 30% in it.

But it's really only worth messing with if either E85 is insanely cheap, or you have a free quantity of diesel or kerosene. (OR you stilled your own alcohol and turpenes from a wood gas producer type affair)