89 Octane Gas, No Ethanol?

[bowtieguy]

some of you have mentioned that you have the option of buying straight gas(no ethanol) in 89 octane. how do you tell?

is there a label stating it? have you tested it?

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy

some of you have mentioned that you have the option of buying straight gas(no ethanol) in 89 octane. how do you tell?

is there a label stating it? have you tested it?

It depends on where you live. Some states, and many metro areas mandated to sell 10% Ethanol. If the station sells a blend it should be marked on the pump.

-Jay

[froggy81500]

Yeah, octane is irrelevant. If they are supposed to be selling a certain % of octane in a particular state or locality, it won't matter what the octane rating is. They use ethanol as an oxygenate to reduce emissions. Also labelling seems to vary state to state. A state that mandates for example 10% ethanol in all gasolines like Minnesota I believe, then it is moot point to label the pumps since they all should have it anyway.

I did read about a test using water to measure the ethanol content in gasoline and if you search about it you will find testers for aircraft. High ethanol content used in airplane engines can lead to problems and up in the sky is the last place you need it.

[VetteOwner]

depends on the station, typically the grade with ethonal in it is cheaper (tax break)

like most pumps around here the ethonal is in the regular 87 octane, now a few have it in the midgrade 89 octane BUT their 87 regular is higher than midgrade...

thats a good way to tell.

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by VetteOwner

depends on the station, typically the grade with ethonal in it is cheaper (tax break)

like most pumps around here the ethonal is in the regular 87 octane, now a few have it in the midgrade 89 octane BUT their 87 regular is higher than midgrade...

thats a good way to tell.

In Virginia its in all grades - 10% ethanol. Some stations still do the pricing like you describe though... $3.939 (87), $4.099 (89), $4.199 (93). Its hard to get the Beast to get decent mileage on an "Ethanol Enriched" diet.

[RoadWarrior]

I'd like to know about those ethanol tests if anyone digs out the details.

I am coming from the opposite direction though, I wanna know the ethanol content of the gas here, but I'm looking for the most ethanol I can get at the moment, I have some things to test that promise higher mileage on ethanol blend than on regular, even a whopping 50% on E85 in a non flexfuel vehicle if it works out right.

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by RoadWarrior

I'd like to know about those ethanol tests if anyone digs out the details.

I am coming from the opposite direction though, I wanna know the ethanol content of the gas here, but I'm looking for the most ethanol I can get at the moment, I have some things to test that promise higher mileage on ethanol blend than on regular, even a whopping 50% on E85 in a non flexfuel vehicle if it works out right.

If you look at the EPA ratings for E85 vehicles, the mileage is rated higher for gasoline. If it was somehow possible to get more mileage out of an E85 blend then the manufacturers would be doing this, and people would be clamoring for E85. Very few stations here have E85, and the few that do charge just as much, if not more for it than 87 octane unleaded. It costs more money to drive on E85. Plus ethanol is very corrosive. Running E85 in a non-E85 equipped vehicle would probably cause serious damage to the fuel system over time.

[RoadWarrior]

"if it was possible the manufacturers would do it"

[dkjones96]

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

If you look at the EPA ratings for E85 vehicles, the mileage is rated higher for gasoline. If it was somehow possible to get more mileage out of an E85 blend then the manufacturers would be doing this, and people would be clamoring for E85. Very few stations here have E85, and the few that do charge just as much, if not more for it than 87 octane unleaded. It costs more money to drive on E85. Plus ethanol is very corrosive. Running E85 in a non-E85 equipped vehicle would probably cause serious damage to the fuel system over time.

It is possible but to make an E85 car get the same or better performance of a gasoline engine. The only problem is when you configure an engine to run at full potential on E85 you'll kill it by running gasoline because of the low octane level of gasoline.

The biggest problem with flex fuel vehicles is they need de-tuned to run 86-91 octane when E85 is up around 110 octane. Kinda like wasting money on premium fuel in a car that runs fine on regular but to a more extreme extent. Guys running top-fuel dragsters even run pump E85 in some of their race cars.

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by dkjones96

It is possible but to make an E85 car get the same or better performance of a gasoline engine. The only problem is when you configure an engine to run at full potential on E85 you'll kill it by running gasoline because of the low octane level of gasoline.

The biggest problem with flex fuel vehicles is they need de-tuned to run 86-91 octane when E85 is up around 110 octane. Kinda like wasting money on premium fuel in a car that runs fine on regular but to a more extreme extent. Guys running top-fuel dragsters even run pump E85 in some of their race cars.

I'm not doubting that you can get the same, or better performance out of E85, I thought the topic of discussion was how many miles you can get out of it compared to straight gasoline.

[bowtieguy]

all the stations i've seen locally JUST say "up to 10% ethanol." the higher the octane, the higher the price, so i guess i'm out of luck.

thank you all.

[VetteOwner]

regular is like $3.97 a gal while e85 is $2.99

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by VetteOwner

regular is like $3.97 a gal while e85 is $2.99

Almost $1/gal less makes it more worth it. Around here the few stations that have it charge the same as their 87 octane unleaded.

-Jay

[VetteOwner]

ya i think 20 cents cheaper is the break even point

[theholycow]

Break even point would be more easily figured and described as percent, should be about the same as the hit in mileage...

[MarkM68]

In the St. Louis area, E85 is consitantly $.50 cheaper then Regular Unleaded.

[froggy81500]

what you will find, is there will be varying answers to this. Its going to depend on state, and even locality. Here in NY, I do not believe I have seen a single station selling E85 at all. Also, I thought I had seen % of ethanol content on gas pumps here in the past but still lately have not seen one. I thought NY was also one of the states that required 10% in all gas but a search I did a few months back did not indicate NY mandated it.

I did find a test using a graduated cylinder and water to determine the % ethanol in pump gas. Apparently ethanol will come out of solution from the gasoline and mix with the water. The change in the water content of the content of the gas and water in the cylinder will tell you the % of E in the gas.

[bowtieguy]

i understand it could be different for each state, brand, or even batch.

what i'd like to find out is those that have the option of straight gas, how do you know?

E10(or E0) is in question, not E85.

[RoadWarrior]

Originally Posted by froggy81500

I did find a test using a graduated cylinder and water to determine the % ethanol in pump gas. Apparently ethanol will come out of solution from the gasoline and mix with the water. The change in the water content of the content of the gas and water in the cylinder will tell you the % of E in the gas.

Nice, thanks! Can see how that will work, measuring cylinder with say 50ml of water in it, add 200ml of gas on top, cork it and shake the hell out of it.... leave it to stand... if the separation point is at 70ml you have 10%, 60ml you have 5% 50ml, zip. (Though I think I've heard that you can manage to get a percent or two water dissolved in some gas blends sometimes)