Civic STD

[seeodywhy]

I have an 88 civic std. From what i understand, the gear ratios are the same as an HF. I need to know what parts I need to add the crx hf's fifth gear. Iplan to change the diff gear. Will I need to change the shift fork for 5th/R or is it the same as the R fork in the std. I can get a 5sp dx tranny from a pick and pull for spare parts. Will I need to change the sychros or add one? Any responses are greatly appreciated.

[mini-e]

Originally Posted by seeodywhy

I have an 88 civic std. From what i understand, the gear ratios are the same as an HF. I need to know what parts I need to add the crx hf's fifth gear. Iplan to change the diff gear. Will I need to change the shift fork for 5th/R or is it the same as the R fork in the std. I can get a 5sp dx tranny from a pick and pull for spare parts. Will I need to change the sychros or add one? Any responses are greatly appreciated.

you might try searching on honda-tech.com or d-series.org. i do not know personally.

[seeodywhy]

Originally Posted by mini-e

you might try searching on honda-tech.com or d-series.org. i do not know personally.

I have searched extensively and came up with nothing.

[white90crxhf]

For the 5th gear all you would need is the gear on the input shaft and the gear on the counter shaft. Why not just get the whole hf transmission and replace the bearings if necessary?

i dont remember all the gear ratios being the same, i remember the 1st gear ratio being the same on the hf dx and si.

[civic lover]

Need to know anything about going into you tranny just pm me and I will try and help you out. I went in my dx tranny to make a hybrid.

[StorminMatt]

Originally Posted by white90crxhf

Why not just get the whole hf transmission and replace the bearings if necessary?

My thoughts entirely. It is going to be MUCH cheaper AND easier to just get a used HF transmission. After pulling it, spin the input shaft in neutral and all gears (including reverse). If it is smooth and quiet, try running the transmission as-is. Otherwise, take it apart and replace the bearings.

[seeodywhy]

Originally Posted by StorminMatt

My thoughts entirely. It is going to be MUCH cheaper AND easier to just get a used HF transmission. After pulling it, spin the input shaft in neutral and all gears (including reverse). If it is smooth and quiet, try running the transmission as-is. Otherwise, take it apart and replace the bearings.

I have called every junkyark and came up with nothing even the huge one that has yards in two states. That happens to be why I got the std. The only difference btw the hf and std tranny is the final drive ratio and the std's lack of a fifth gear.

[Erik]

Try here: http://www.car-part.com/

I found an 84 CRX HF transmission for $75, I just had to drive about 4 hours to pick it up...

[seeodywhy]

Originally Posted by Erik

Try here: http://www.car-part.com/

I found an 84 CRX HF transmission for $75, I just had to drive about 4 hours to pick it up...

I did some research and to use an 84 tranny would require new mounts and welding new mount positions on the chassis. I'm not going to pay any body to do my work, I drove to montreal to get the engine for my Z so if any one knows of an hf tranny near batimore let me know. Is it going to be cheaper because of how much the gear costs, if all I need is the gear, or does that include paying someone to do the work.

[white90crxhf]

since your std is a 4spd is the transmission a different size?

I dont think the previous poster ment for You to get an 84 hf transmission. I think he ment for you to use the site.

[white90crxhf]

1991
Transmission
Honda CRX M.T., 1500, HF, FED- PG1567 $250 Two Chiefs Used Auto Parts USA-VA(Suffolk) E-mail 1-866-846-7898

maybe a 4 or 5 hour drive to suffolk from baltimore.
i found that at www.car-part.com

[R.I.D.E.]

I live about 30 minutes from Suffolk.

regards
gary

[opelgt73]

Originally Posted by seeodywhy

I have called every junkyark and came up with nothing even the huge one that has yards in two states. That happens to be why I got the std. The only difference btw the hf and std tranny is the final drive ratio and the std's lack of a fifth gear.

Changing a 4speet to 5, switching out final drive and forks etc. sounds like a huge hassle to me. Go to one of the honda forums and post a wanted add, or watch ebay for a complete HF trans. A lot of guys on the honda forums swap out the HF for an SI trans and will usually sell the HF trans for a song. I've seen them come up several times for around $50-75. Try www.honda-tech.com

[Erik]

Originally Posted by white90crxhf

since your std is a 4spd is the transmission a different size?

I dont think the previous poster ment for You to get an 84 hf transmission. I think he ment for you to use the site.

Yeah- I was just saying that you can find some good deals on that website.

You might check autozone.com and see if the same part number for axle shafts is used for the 4 speed and 5 speed- just to be sure that will be compatible if you switch over to a 5 speed.

[seeodywhy]

Thanks guys for being so patient . One more question, though. How do I view people's gas logs that have already tried things similar to what I'm attempting. I see them mentioned in posts and I've tried searching but I can't figure out how to view them.

[Erik]

Look at the blue box directly beneath the posters name- if they have cars in their garage, then you can click on either the name of the car and view their mods, or you can click on the "XXX MPG(US)" figure shown and that will take you directly to the gas log for that particular car.

[seeodywhy]

I have been doing a lot of searching. A member named budoman put an HF tranny in an STD and he was thoroughly dissappointed. I look through his gas logs and the HF swap is not all that impressive. I saw another post of his and he says he has trouble climbing hills. I wonder if performance modds woulg make up for putting tall gears on a weak engine. Maybe a turbo with a slight larger exhaust housing to hit boost at low revs. I think I see why honda went through so much trouble to keep the crx hf so light. In my Z I do 35 in 5th at about 1300 revs. Do you think that upping the fuel a little with lower revs will make much of a difference? Or do you think regular peformance upgrades will make up for the extra weight and lack of power? Or do you think I would bebetter off installing just the fifth gear or just the diff? Installing ac would also cut down on drag in the summer as the windows wouldn't be down; but would they cancel each other out?

[Erik]

The HF trans will hurt your city mpg (including at 35 mph), the only place it will help is out on the highway at 55+ mph.

My HF swap probably gives me another 3-4 mpg on at 65-70mph. I also like that its much quieter at those speeds (less engine noise).

[seeodywhy]

Originally Posted by Erik

The HF trans will hurt your city mpg (including at 35 mph), the only place it will help is out on the highway at 55+ mph.

My HF swap probably gives me another 3-4 mpg on at 65-70mph. I also like that its much quieter at those speeds (less engine noise).

Did you swap into an STD?

[nowhhs]

If all you were doing was putting an hf transmission into an 88 std, I think you'll be disappointed with the drivability when you're done. I put one behind a d15z1, in a 90 hatch and the low end torque of that engine makes it a great swap. Even swapping it into a dx or lx might be ok, but the std engine is only 70hp. I wouldn't go there.

[hypermile]

lol i thought something else when I saw STD in the title.

[Erik]

Originally Posted by seeodywhy

Did you swap into an STD?

No- my 87 Civic is a DX, it came with a 5 speed and I have a carbed motor.

[seeodywhy]

Originally Posted by nowhhs

If all you were doing was putting an hf transmission into an 88 std, I think you'll be disappointed with the drivability when you're done. I put one behind a d15z1, in a 90 hatch and the low end torque of that engine makes it a great swap. Even swapping it into a dx or lx might be ok, but the std engine is only 70hp. I wouldn't go there.

Did you also add the Vtec or did you just run the z1 without.

[nowhhs]

I added the Vtec, I'm using the P07 ECU. But that doesn't change the low end below 2500 RPM.

[seeodywhy]

I am very interested in doing the same swap. Right now I'm driving a 90 Z and the $125 I spend a week on gas is getting old and being pinned to the seat just isn't worth it anymore. As a beginner to this type of thing, I like many of my counterparts are looking for info on this swap. I have noticed from my research that it's easy to find what to do but not how to do it. Namely, my biggest question, when people say you have to wire in a 5-wire O2 sensor or the egr components. Do they mean running a wire from a specific pin on the ecu to the component (i.e. a signal wire not a ground) or is there some trick, because everyone keeps saying, "creative wiring."

[white90crxhf]

your first post says it's an 88?

i swapped an si transmission onto my hf engine.

I don't see how the hf transmission mated to the std engine could be any worse than a plain hf.

[nowhhs]

Originally Posted by seeodywhy

I am very interested in doing the same swap. Right now I'm driving a 90 Z and the $125 I spend a week on gas is getting old and being pinned to the seat just isn't worth it anymore. As a beginner to this type of thing, I like many of my counterparts are looking for info on this swap. I have noticed from my research that it's easy to find what to do but not how to do it. Namely, my biggest question, when people say you have to wire in a 5-wire O2 sensor or the egr components. Do they mean running a wire from a specific pin on the ecu to the component (i.e. a signal wire not a ground) or is there some trick, because everyone keeps saying, "creative wiring."

Thats exactly what they mean. You have to run wires from your new ecu, which will be a P07, in the case of a d15z1 swap, to many different components. That is the "creative" part. The plugs for the 2 ecus are different, as is the wiring harness, as are the pinouts. Some wires you could use from your existing harness, for example some of the distributor and injector wiring, others you will have to run new, for example the vtec and egr. I didn't trust most of what I found on the internet after I found a few blatant errors, so I bought a factory shop manual for both a 1990 civic and a 1993 civic and compared the wiring diagrams, changing the pins and running new wires when necessary. I only screwed up two pairs on my first attempt, which I'm actually pretty proud of, but it takes quite a bit of time and patience to do. It isn't difficult though.

[seeodywhy]

Originally Posted by white90crxhf

your first post says it's an 88?

i swapped an si transmission onto my hf engine.

I don't see how the hf transmission mated to the std engine could be any worse than a plain hf.

My 300zx is a 90. I put a JDM motor in it in the middle of winter in a neighbors driveway mostly at night. I got a great deal on an 88 Civic std. I bought it for the soul purpose of not driving that gas guzzler. I had the Z since I was 18 (I'm 24 now) and the extra expense just isn't worth it any more. My only reservation about the swap is wiring the 5-wire o2 sensor. I looked at my service manual and the o2 sensor has a wire that goes to the vss. From what I have read in posts it should be fine to leave the cable driven gear in as the ecu still ges a pulse signal. Also, the diagram shows six wires wires when it is supposed to be a 5-wire. When I did my JDm swap in the Z, I was helped immensely by people who have done the same thing on tt.net. I need to know how somone wired in there 5-wire o2 sensor. Nowhhs, can you pm me some details regarding how you did your o2 sensor? I would really appreciate it.

[opelgt73]

Originally Posted by seeodywhy

I have been doing a lot of searching. A member named budoman put an HF tranny in an STD and he was thoroughly dissappointed. I look through his gas logs and the HF swap is not all that impressive. I saw another post of his and he says he has trouble climbing hills. I wonder if performance modds woulg make up for putting tall gears on a weak engine. Maybe a turbo with a slight larger exhaust housing to hit boost at low revs. I think I see why honda went through so much trouble to keep the crx hf so light. In my Z I do 35 in 5th at about 1300 revs. Do you think that upping the fuel a little with lower revs will make much of a difference? Or do you think regular peformance upgrades will make up for the extra weight and lack of power? Or do you think I would bebetter off installing just the fifth gear or just the diff? Installing ac would also cut down on drag in the summer as the windows wouldn't be down; but would they cancel each other out?

He must have been doing something wrong. I find it very hard to believe that going from a forth gear and final drive of .832/3.888 in the STD to a Fifth and final drive of .694/2.95 would not make a SIGNIFICANT difference in FE.

[seeodywhy]

Originally Posted by opelgt73

He must have been doing something wrong. I find it very hard to believe that going from a forth gear and final drive of .832/3.888 in the STD to a Fifth and final drive of .694/2.95 would not make a SIGNIFICANT difference in FE.

Heavy throttle to not have a snails pace in traffic, hills, and the like. I live in the middle of hilly baltimore city. 10% gain is not adequate for the work involed and driving in agressive city traffic.