Good station wagons to get?

[limerence]

Hello All,

I'm looking for a solid FE station wagon. Wanted to get suggestions out there from you guys as to which models to get and why. I saw Scott's review on his top cars which included 97 - 99 Escort wagons, and 96 - 99 Saturns (is that for SW and LW?) Feedback on different models of station wagons would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[theholycow]

How about price and age range?

[limerence]

price.. probably under 3k and not much preference on age but i would prefer something with airbags.

[Jay2TheRescue]

I'd think a Subaru wagon should be a dependable, affordable car with decent economy, especially if you get one with a 5 speed manual tranny.

-Jay

[RoadWarrior]

Hum, there's a a subaru wagon or two getting worse than my minivan.

I'd got with the Escorts or Saturns, but there's also Sentra wagons, Accord wagons, the chance of catching a newer Kia Rio wagon cheap, newer Hyundai Elantra wagons, Ford Focus wagons (avoid early ones, teething troubles)

[limerence]

Originally Posted by RoadWarrior

Hum, there's a a subaru wagon or two getting worse than my minivan.

I'd got with the Escorts or Saturns, but there's also Sentra wagons, Accord wagons, the chance of catching a newer Kia Rio wagon cheap, newer Hyundai Elantra wagons, Ford Focus wagons (avoid early ones, teething troubles)

RoadWarrior,
I see that you have a 95 wagon. Do you know if 96+ are better in terms of FE and maintenance?

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by RoadWarrior

Hum, there's a a subaru wagon or two getting worse than my minivan.

I'd got with the Escorts or Saturns, but there's also Sentra wagons, Accord wagons, the chance of catching a newer Kia Rio wagon cheap, newer Hyundai Elantra wagons, Ford Focus wagons (avoid early ones, teething troubles)

I think those are the outback models... They have higher ground clearance and many of them have AWD, neither of which is not good in terms of FE. Their other models should be pretty good though, especially with a 5 speed.

-Jay

[RoadWarrior]

Originally Posted by limerence

RoadWarrior,
I see that you have a 95 wagon. Do you know if 96+ are better in terms of FE and maintenance?

96 is the final year for the 2nd Gen bodystyle, though in the wagons the body is substantially the same in the 3rd gen as the 2nd gen apart from the nose. That is also final year for the 1.9 SEFI before introduction of the 2.0 SPI. So if you particularly wanted a 2nd gen with 1.9 that you could put a scangauge in, then that's what you get in a '96. Passenger airbags became standard in 95, in previous years they were optional, but I think drivers airbags were standard from at least '93.

FE... later years seem to have gained a little weight, and the motor does appear to be a touch thirstier, but not by much and might have better mid range efficiency. Aero might be a tad better on the 97+.

Reliability, well looked after, they do the energiser bunny thing, neglected they can have issues with rusting out of the rear springs and hangers, and overheating, overheating can drop valve seats and overheating kills the auto trannies. If the tranny fluid smells chemical/rancid, it's toast. If the motor appears to have any cooling problems, verify it was either parked at the first sign of them, or whether it was driven with them, if driven with them, avoid!

Like many small cars they suffer from "disposable car syndrome" meaning people don't do maintenance and oil changes to them, get one with full history and it will probably last years.

Oh yeah, head gaskets seem to go at about 200,000 miles

[limerence]

and as for saturns, it seems that most on here prefer the 5 speed as opposed to the auto. my question is how much greater in FE can the manual get?

and i see more posts on the SW than LW. any reason why?

[Erik]

If you go with an older Saturn, inspect the dipstick and oil filler cap closely- I have a friend's 99 saturn SL (1.9 SOHC) in my garage right now- its on its 3rd cylinder head in 5 weeks (the "certified good used heads" must already have stress cracks in them). I've read that many of the older saturns have problems with the cylinder head cracking- but others go 300K without any problems so I wouldn't cross them off the list.

[thornburg]

In that price range, I concur with the others, an Escort (or Tracer) wagon is probably about the best you can do. If you need something larger, an Accord Wagon is about the only choice that makes any sense, IMO (but would be tough to find for $3k).

There was a Corolla wagon for a while, but they are rather hard to find. There was also a Tercel wagon, but that's going back quite a bit, and also can be hard to find.

If you had quite a bit more to spend, a Volkswagen Jetta Wagon comes with their excellent TDI engine, but I hope you do your own work, because they have some reliability problems (I went through 3 starters, 3 MAFs, 2 batteries, and a few other miscellaneous parts in 80,000 miles before I had to sell it to get something that would hold three car seats).

If you want to make your own Biodiesel, get a Mercedes 300D (or similar) wagon, from the early '80s. They go for $2k-3k, are extremely reliable, have extremely strong metal bodies, and require minimal work to convert to biodiesel.

Incidentally, if you get an older Escort Wagon, make sure you get a Carfax or other history report, because most of them have 5-digit odos, and they try to sell you a car with 178,000 or 278,000 miles as "78,000 original miles". A dealership near me has a mid-90s Escort (not a wagon) with "only 11,000 miles". Yeah, right...

[theholycow]

Manual transmission is FAR more hypermiler-friendly.

What about a Camry wagon?

[limerence]

i've been trying to find a camry wagon but most of the ones locally are v6. in looking at its fuel economy, the 4 cyl gets under 30mpg right?

and i dont see too much about diesel passat wagons too much on here. are they bad on reliability?

[RoadWarrior]

I think Passat and Jetta diesel wagons are good, it's just you won't see one for less than about 5 grand unless it's a total basket case.

[limerence]

Originally Posted by RoadWarrior

I think Passat and Jetta diesel wagons are good, it's just you won't see one for less than about 5 grand unless it's a total basket case.

ahh... i see that now.

is it a coin toss on the escort and saturn then? any major pros of one over the other?

[RoadWarrior]

Horrible grinding noise when the motor turns over???? RUN!!

But I guess it could need a new starter, you kinda have to hear the noise, if it's inside the motor, avoid like the plague. If it's not getting fuel there's an inertia switch fuel cutout that's on the right side of the trunk under the panel that could need resetting. However, try and settle on a low low price, before popping the panel out, resetting it and driving away

[Wazabi Owner]

I stand by the Escort wagon. I've had one for 8 years - a 99 model. It's been a great car and taken a lot of abuse.

[Ford Man]

I would recommend the Escort wagon if you can find one in good condition that has been well cared for and serviced regularly. I have a 1997 wagon and on a trip earlier this month consisting of about 1100 miles of highway driving with the cruise set at 55 I averaged over 45mpg. It is a 2.0L 5 speed manual. I also have two other Escorts and have gotten great service from all of them. One of them has 476,000 miles on the original engine. (Never been rebuilt.)

[RoadWarrior]

Even though his high miler is an '88 the block has changed very little from those in the 2.0 SPI motors, mostly the head is different from the 1.9. They typically have moly rings, and mine had excellent ring seal at 200,000 miles, I hope it still will when it goes back together.

[Lug_Nut]

Originally Posted by RoadWarrior

I think Passat and Jetta diesel wagons are good, it's just you won't see one for less than about 5 grand unless it's a total basket case.

They're out there, but oh so scarce.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=217686

[limerence]

Originally Posted by Lug_Nut

They're out there, but oh so scarce.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=217686

dang... nice deal... and it came with those wheels

[ZugyNA]

Try to find a '96 car that has cheaper parts cost than a 1996 FORD ESCORT 1.9L?

http://www.rockauto.com/repairindex/

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by ZugyNA

Try to find a '96 car that has cheaper parts cost than a 1996 FORD ESCORT 1.9L?

http://www.rockauto.com/repairindex/

Parts for the 1996 CHEVROLET CAPRICE CLASSIC 5.7L cost only 94% of what parts for a 1996 FORD ESCORT 1.9L cost.

Sorry, I could not resist.... and the Caprice was available in a wagon...

[RoadWarrior]

Oh crap, Wile-E costs me 1.05 in parts what Marvin does

[goofy1]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe. great wagons, great FE, and built Toyota everlasting tough. They use the Corolla engine and tranny which just about close to bullietproof as a engine/tranny can get. best the trannys are perfect P&G with the automatics. My wife drives our Vibe and she's hypermiling with P&G and getting 36mpg.

[ihatemybike]

That RockAuto price thing is cool.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by goofy1

I can't believe no one has mentioned the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe.

OP's price range is under $3000. I expect that there's not many of those worth having at that price.

[bodhi_tree777]

Originally Posted by goofy1

I can't believe no one has mentioned the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe. great wagons, great FE, and built Toyota everlasting tough. They use the Corolla engine and tranny which just about close to bullietproof as a engine/tranny can get. best the trannys are perfect P&G with the automatics. My wife drives our Vibe and she's hypermiling with P&G and getting 36mpg.

definitely would recommend the Vibe/Matrix as well. Some owners would cringe at calling it a "wagon" I guess, but that's what it is & that's one of the reasons we bought it. Call it a "sport utility crossover" if it makes you feel better . Definitely out of the price range that this guy is looking for, but for anyone if you're looking for more room I'd highly recommend these cars.

On genvibe.com someone just posted that they just got their 04 Base Vibe up to 299,999 miles when the odometer stalled out. I take that as a good sign. These cars are almost bulletproof in their reliability.

I own an 03 GT with the sportier 2zz engine in it and I'm still getting 33+ mpgs lately with some basic hypermiling.

[RoadWarrior]

Are Suzuki Aerios hitting that range yet? I get the impression that they're a little short though, like you'd get about the same in them as a decent size hatchback.

[goofy1]

oops forgot about the price lol. but toyota does have corolla wagons and camry wagons in that price range. i've personal owned a corolla that was about to hit 200,000 with no previous problems. buth then a lady rear ended me one day and the damage was worth more then the car(according to the insure. company not me) that car never had a problem and got super mpg with an automatic transmission. and i've owned a camry too. the car was bulliet proof. i defintely say get one of those.