The Honda Fit

[DaX]

With all the new ruckus about the Honda Fit, I've decided to explore the possibilites a little bit.

I really like this car, but I'll never buy a new car. If I buy one, it might be in about 3 to 5 years from now. I know that the Fit sold with the L13A in Japan, a 1.3L that gets better mileage than the 1.5L VTEC engine. I've called around all the engine importers in Atlanta and pretty much gotten the same dead air response when I asked if they knew when they'd be getting any Honda L-series engines in. I guess I need to give it a few years for the importers to start getting these engines in. But hasn't the Fit/Jazz been available overseas for over 4 years? If I did end up getting one, I'd almost surely do a 1.3L swap for better mileage.

I'm very excited about the new engine technology that Honda has come out with!

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by DaX

With all the new ruckus about the Honda Fit, I've decided to explore the possibilites a little bit.

I really like this car, but I'll never buy a new car. If I buy one, it might be in about 3 to 5 years from now. I know that the Fit sold with the L13A in Japan, a 1.3L that gets better mileage than the 1.5L VTEC engine. I've called around all the engine importers in Atlanta and pretty much gotten the same dead air response when I asked if they knew when they'd be getting any Honda L-series engines in. I guess I need to give it a few years for the importers to start getting these engines in. But hasn't the Fit/Jazz been available overseas for over 4 years? If I did end up getting one, I'd almost surely do a 1.3L swap for better mileage.

I'm very excited about the new engine technology that Honda has come out with!

i was telling my wife yesterday that I would get a Fit when the hybrid version comes out. I really like the "trunk" space, and it's kind of a cute car.

[Compaq888]

and what mpg does the 1.3 liter get?? please specify city and freeway mpg...

[philmcneal]

Originally Posted by Compaq888

and what mpg does the 1.3 liter get?? please specify city and freeway mpg...

I Believe it was 35/50 respectively with CVT

[SVOboy]

They also made an 8 valve 1.2l, long live the 8 valver!

[Compaq888]

50 for freeway is good, but the city number is almost the same as the 1.5 liter.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

They also made an 8 valve 1.2l, long live the 8 valver!

I think everything other than the 1.5 is 8 valve, 8 plug.

The Fit is pretty neat, though I can't believe it doesn't even get 40 on the highway. Really turned me off looking at it. The mileage should be pretty good once they make the hybrid though.

[SVOboy]

I think most of honda will be 2 pluggers pretty soon, it's a smart idea, kinda like a wideband in the vx in 92 and now in 2006 it;s standard.

[Compaq888]

standard, LOL!!!!!!!!!

Nissan doesn't even know what a wideband is. I think they put wideband on a 2005 altima, I don't know. Once again this proves nissan dropped the ball.

[SVOboy]

Standard for honda, duh. Even my new co-worker in all of his racism admits that honda still knows how to make a car.

[philmcneal]

34/45 my bad!

i think the fit itself is not as areodynamic as a sedan (which makes me sad because i relaly love subcompacts but can't stand the crappy shapes) and for the north american version they had to make the gearing for the manual more agressive than the auto (100 km/h 3000 rpms vs 2400 rpms) which I have no idea why but all I know is this car is a piece when it comes to saving fuel!

I have hope in the hybrid version though... assuming its hypermiling abilities are not hammered and hoping they would clean up the areodyanmics a bit.

[kickflipjr]

So they are makeing a hybrid fit? I guess it might be the replacement for the insight???

[Sludgy]

Car companies feel that it's imperative to install too-big engines in their vehicles. But why won't they offer OPTIONAL engines and axle ratios like Honda's old "HF" models?

This is THE issue that torques me off. All car companies except Honda used to do it. From the thread above, now even Honda has abandoned offering inexpensive efficiency. With $3.00 gas, a 1.3L Fit that gets 50 mpg highway at a non-hybrid price would be gobbled up by the public.

The Fit is too small for me physically, but I'd trade in my F350 diesel for any manufacturer's full size, bench-seat pickup that gets 25 mpg highway. And yes, that kind of economy is possible now with DOD and OHV VVT. The trucks just need to be geared for economy, a "stepside" bed installed, and the efficient technical bits installed on a V6 motor.

They could get 30 mpg highway with some slightly higher tech stuff or a small diesel.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by Sludgy

But why won't they offer OPTIONAL engines and axle ratios like Honda's old "HF" models?

i've read a plausible theory on other forums: they won't make fuel-efficient engines available because they now have a vested interest in selling hybrid drive trains.

where in the past some of the least expensive cars were also the most efficient, this is changing. more and more, you have to pay a premium to get a vehicle with better fuel economy & reduced emissions.

[DaX]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

i've read a plausible theory on other forums: they won't make fuel-efficient engines available because they now have a vested interest in selling hybrid drive trains.

where in the past some of the least expensive cars were also the most efficient, this is changing. more and more, you have to pay a premium to get a vehicle with better fuel economy & reduced emissions.

Now THAT's scary.

[Sludgy]

MetroMPG wrote:

"i've read a plausible theory on other forums: they won't make fuel-efficient engines available because they now have a vested interest in selling hybrid drive trains.

where in the past some of the least expensive cars were also the most efficient, this is changing. more and more, you have to pay a premium to get a vehicle with better fuel economy & reduced emissions."

It's true that Honda and Toyota have a vested interest in selling expensive hybrids, but the American and European carmakers don't. In particular, Volkswagen has dissed hybrids in favor of diesels. The Lupo gets 78 mpg.

The question remains why global car companies won't import their Asian and European-spec (i.e. efficient) cars to America.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by Sludgy

The question remains why global car companies won't import their Asian and European-spec (i.e. efficient) cars to America.

because they've decided that americans won't tolerate (buy) "underpowered" cars.

i suppose this is another reason they're going hybrid. they can pair an "underpowered" engine with an electric motor and raise performance above what the ICE could deliver by itself.

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by Sludgy

The question remains why global car companies won't import their Asian and European-spec (i.e. efficient) cars to America.

I don't think blaming the VW is the right thing to do. VW would love to import the Lupo, the Polo, etc.

someone sets the laws on which cars can and cannot be imported. It's no coincidence that the very same people who make the laws also received huge campaign contributions from the competition.

It's how politics work in this country.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

someone sets the laws on which cars can and cannot be imported.

the cars, yes, but not their *drivetrains*. there's nothing legally preventing honda from selling the smaller engine in the fit in north america. the car itself has already been homologated.

i was hoping honda would offer the canadian market the smaller engine, since we tend to be more small-car-focussed. but it didn't happen. we just ended up getting a base trim model that the US won't have, according to a review i read.

sludgy has another good point: because honda and toyota seem to be putting all their "efficiency" eggs in the hybrid basket (at least in north america), it opens the door for other manufacturers to come in with a very efficient non-hybrid. of course it will probably have less overall power than the hybrid, but it might work. i'm sure it's being considered.

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

the cars, yes, but not their *drivetrains*. there's nothing legally preventing honda from selling the smaller engine in the fit in north america. the car itself has already been homologated.

i was hoping honda would offer the canadian market the smaller engine, since we tend to be more small-car-focussed. but it didn't happen. we just ended up getting a base trim model that the US won't have, according to a review i read.

sludgy has another good point: because honda and toyota seem to be putting all their "efficiency" eggs in the hybrid basket (at least in north america), it opens the door for other manufacturers to come in with a very efficient non-hybrid. of course it will probably have less overall power than the hybrid, but it might work. i'm sure it's being considered.

Excellent points. I love hybrids, and I'd rather spend $12k on a new Yaris that gets 40mpg than $25k on a new Insight that gets 60-70mpg.

But then again there ARE tax breaks for owning a hybrid, which is a bonus... and the Insight is hella cool

[DaX]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

sludgy has another good point: because honda and toyota seem to be putting all their "efficiency" eggs in the hybrid basket (at least in north america), it opens the door for other manufacturers to come in with a very efficient non-hybrid. of course it will probably have less overall power than the hybrid, but it might work. i'm sure it's being considered.

I honestly can never see myself buying a hybrid. Mostly for the reason that I hear they are very difficult to work on. I have to be able to work on my own car...I just have to. I know NOTHING about diesels, but I think I could more easily work on them than on a hybrid. I'll patiently await the arrival of 100% Ethanol, Diesel, Biodiesel, or super efficent gasoline engine powered cars.

[philmcneal]

Originally Posted by kickflipjr

So they are makeing a hybrid fit? I guess it might be the replacement for the insight???

its been confirmed that the honda fit hybrid will use the insight's 1.0 liter engine 3 cylinder. How they are going to pull that off with a crappy areodyanmic body, heavy weight (insight was less than 2000 pounds vs the 2400 pounds of the fit) and managing to get 50 mpg is going to be interesting....

i like the idea of the fit (small agile car that fits everything) but the mileage is indeed a huge turn off for me. If they mess up the honda fit, my next car will be a toyota

[Compaq888]

I've kept this secret but the Honda Fit is the ugliest car I've ever seen. If the Honda Fit were a guy he'd be uglier than me, and I'm ugly!

I think the fit is not right, it gets bad fuel economy compared to the yaris, corolla and etc.

I think they should revise the car with a lower weight, better aerodynamics, and styling. Otherwise if I were choosing the Yaris looks damn good right about now!

also they are lacking on their fuel economy. The camry, accord's nemesis gets better fuel economy and is about a second faster in the 1/4 mile. One second faster is a huge difference. Not to mention the camry is cheaper too!!!!!!

Next is the civic. Ok you got the civic Si for the fast people then why not concentrate the regular 140hp civics for more fuel economy????
Maybe come out with another special HX or VX model for the hardcore fuel economy fans. Hybrid fit is not going to cut it. It better be 70mpg city and 60mpg freeway because it weighs less than the prius. Honda is going in the wrong direction and their sales are starting to wind down.

No wonder toyota is going to be #1 soon. They got a camry that gets better fuel economy than their competition in the same classes and is faster. I would still chose the new civic over the corolla unless they redesign it and surprise us like they did with the new camry. The Yaris looks good and gets better fuel economy. It's also 200 lbs lighter.

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by Compaq888

I've kept this secret but the Honda Fit is the ugliest car I've ever seen. If the Honda Fit were a guy he'd be uglier than me, and I'm ugly!

I think the fit is not right, it gets bad fuel economy compared to the yaris, corolla and etc.

I think they should revise the car with a lower weight, better aerodynamics, and styling. Otherwise if I were choosing the Yaris looks damn good right about now!

Are you serious?

honda fit:





5-Speed Manual (City/Highway) 33 / 38
5-Speed Automatic (City/Highway)31 / 38 (source)

toyota yaris:





5-Speed Manual (City/Highway) 34/40
4-Speed Automatic (City/Highway) 34/39 (source)

Aside from the Yaris getting 3 more mpg in the city, i don't know how these two cars are not clones of each other. They look the same. They have similar mileage. They're made by japanese companies.

I don't know how you can say the Fit sucks and praise the Yaris in the same breath.

[Compaq888]

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

Are you serious?

honda fit:





5-Speed Manual (City/Highway) 33 / 38
5-Speed Automatic (City/Highway)31 / 38 (source)

toyota yaris:





5-Speed Manual (City/Highway) 34/40
4-Speed Automatic (City/Highway) 34/39 (source)

Aside from the Yaris getting 3 more mpg in the city, i don't know how these two cars are not clones of each other. They look the same. They have similar mileage. They're made by japanese companies.

I don't know how you can say the Fit sucks and praise the Yaris in the same breath.

Please post pics of the US version 4 door yaris. It's unfair to compare cars from different countries.

The yaris gets better fuel economy, weighs 200lbs less, looks better and costs $2000 less, I am comparing the 4 door yaris(standard model) to the 5 door fit(standard model).

[Compaq888]

"The yaris gets better fuel economy, weighs 200lbs less, looks better and costs $2000 less, I am comparing the 4 door yaris(standard model) to the 5 door fit(standard model)."

*utter silence*

[philmcneal]

i still like the fit better, just because the interior rivals that of the yaris subcompact. Also the way they used the fit's space is still very impressive... smaller than my car and yet..... MORE ROOOM!?!?!?!


even if the yaris edges it in stats just a bit, i still think real world FE for both cars should be very similar, if not the same. In the end as usual it all boils down to driving style!

That's why i'm waiting for the hybrid fit, these normal cars aren't a big enough leap than my current car.

Also why i like the fit better and i'm surprised no one has mentioned this, standard safety. Since I carry family a lot, I like them to be protected as much as possible for one day I may **** up or someone else will.

[kickflipjr]

The the fit hybrid will end up somewere between 33/38 and
61/66. My guess is something around 45/55 epa.

[Compaq888]

sorry but the fit is butt ugly on the exterior. The interior is all cool.

45/55 epa is too low.

[philmcneal]

Originally Posted by Compaq888

sorry but the fit is butt ugly on the exterior. The interior is all cool.

45/55 epa is too low.

not if the price is thousands dollars lower than the cheapest new hybrid.


if honda plays their cards right, this could be the hybrid for the masses.